Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

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Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:32 pm

I'm currently reading the manga for the first time and have watched Ocean, Funi, and English Kai for the anime (planning to do a chronological re-watch in Japanese sometime soon), but although I'm not yet on the Frieza arc, I started thinking about what mine (and others') favorite BASE Goku returns/power increases are. All of these occur before Goku could become a Super Saiyan, all of them feature his serious side, and ALL of the moments are spine-tingling with how awesome they are. I'm going to briefly break down what I love about each moment, and even on my favorite.

Son Goku Strikes Back Against Tao Pai Pai

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Tao Pai Pai was Goku's first serious opponent in the series, and the first one to truly defeat him in a fight. This was Dragon Ball's turning point, as it marked the first time the magical orbs were collected to bring a friend back to life. While Goku climbing Karin's Tower, dueling against Karin to retrieve the Sacred Water, the lessons he learns, and returning to defeat Tao Pai Pai are all great, this one is at the bottom for me merely because of how excellent the following moments are. But it was the first real "Return of Goku," so I have to mention it here.


After Drinking Water of the Gods

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This begins with Goku drinking the Water of the Gods to bring out his (at the time) full latent potential. The anime improves upon the manga by making him actually have to journey to retrieve it, but anyhow, the moment I'm talking about begins when Goku recognizes his power, only to walk to the edge of Karin's Tower to sense ki for the very first time. Sensing ki is a common trope of Dragon Ball now, so seeing the first time the protagonist was able to do so is monumental and not a wasted moment. You can feel not only how powerful and terrifying King Piccolo is, but also how much more powerful and confident Son Goku is.

And of course, his entrance to save Tenshinhan against drum, only to deal Drum a deadly kick that crushes his skull and causes his face to explode. What an entrance, and an excellent precursor to the (albeit less violent) upcoming vengeance against Nappa.

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai


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This moment is here first because it is Goku's return after 3 years of training in the heavens with Kami. It is our (and all the characters') first time seeing a MUCH taller, adult Goku, having grown a foot for each year, but that is not the only thing changed about him. He seems so at ease, so content, and always several steps ahead of everyone else in his wisdom, knowledge, and reading a room. It's evident when he predicts when Krillin, Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu will arrive, evidence when he first meets Ma Jr., and throughout much of his fights in the 23rd. This Goku is in control.

Return from Afterlife Training with Kaio-Sama/The Quiet Anger of Son Goku
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This is it. The moment Goku saves his son from death with the flying Nimbus only to be spotted by his enemies and friends floating in the heavens, looking down and surveying the scene from above. The calm, cold, collected way Goku strolls past Vegeta and Nappa, not even acknowledging them. This is not theSon Goku that would run screaming to avenge his friends like before, but something more unsettling. The quiet wrath boiling within Goku as he's about to face Nappa is new and scary, and Krillin even comments on it. And then his ensuing power up and complete embarrassment of the Saiyan Beast we just witnessed annihilate his powerful friends. This is Toriyama at his peak.

Touchdown on Namek
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In many ways, this feels like a Part 2 to Goku's entrance against Nappa and Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga. Goku's gravity training has increased his power to new heights. As great as this moment is, I have it below Saiyan Saga simply because Recoome is Nappa Part 2 in this scenario. Still get chills at this moment, however.

Emerging from the Rejuvenation Chamber and Facing Frieza
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Beginning with Goku's "I'm healed" and bursting out of the Healing Chamber, I felt that the song in Kai and Goku reflecting on the pain his friends/allies were enduring, only to have him take a battle stance...all of this was goosebump-inducing. And then there's the way he touches down on the battlefield, only for him and Frieza to see each other for the first time. And the visible aura surrounding Goku as he walks boldly ahead.

My order of favorite to least favorite goes like this for now:
1. Return from Afterlife Training with Kaio-Sama/The Quiet Anger of Son Goku
2. After Drinking Water of the Gods
3. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
4. Touchdown on Namek
5. Emerging from the Rejuvenation Chamber and Facing Frieza
6. Son Goku Strikes Back Against Tao Pai Pai

Please let me know your favorites and why in the comments below! :angel:
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by BWri » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:56 am

I personally like the ones where Goku's power increase seems more natural and earned.

My favorite two have to be:
1. 23 Tenkaichi Budokai
2. Touchdown on Namek

I prefer Goku's attitude in Dragon Ball, mainly for the setting, because he was also allowed to be playful with his power increase and showoff a little to his friends. I also liked that the gap between him and his rivals wasn't so large that they couldn't successfully compete and that the bulk of his increase could be attributed also to the skills he'd gained. It's also as you said, he was so at ease and in control that it made him truly stand out as a protagonist and more and more it became so difficult to wait for the inevitable finals of the 23 TB. Both he and Piccolo knew how it was going to go down the entire time, almost like a private joke between them.

On Namek, I just like that his training was so grueling, gradual, and unprecedented that it allowed him to become one of the most powerful fighters in the universe along the way. I prefer to think that this journey took several months like in the anime, but either way it's the ultimate expression of "Hard work pays off".
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:05 am

Goku Emerging from the Rejuvenation Chamber and arriving on the battlefield is definitely a highlight for me. Up to that point Freeza was just dragging everyone through the mud, going as far as to turn the strongest of them into a crying bi*ch. When Goku arrived though, you could tell from that epic entrance that everything was going to be OK...unless you were Krillin, but apart from that, you knew Freeza was going to get his behind kicked.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Psajdak » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:13 am

Overall, I'd say him being revived in Saiyan arc - his base PL increased significantly, plus he learned Kaioken, and Genki Dama - some of the most useful tehniques in series.

But I have to also say that it felt really rewarding when he, and Kuririn took off those turtle shells, or when he turned down gravity before arriving on Namek.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:39 pm

For me, I think the order is probably as follows:

1. Return from Afterlife Training with Kaio-Sama/The Quiet Anger of Son Goku - This is the one that really makes Goku break out as a big deal, even in the 'bigger pond' that is the wider Galaxy; given the struggle he had with Raditz in the earlier part of the arc, it's so good to see him come back totally confident and make a fool of a guy who dwarfs Raditz's power - and at a time where we've just seen a bunch of Earth's strongest warriors unceremoniously offed, as well as the death of his greatest rival in saving his son, too. Goku's put on a pedestal here as Earth's only real hope from the outset, and he completely lives up to the hype that narrative manoeuvre gives him, which is deeply satisfying. What's more, the inclusion of stuff like Kaio-Ken (possibly his coolest move) allows him to compete at a level above that and crank up the dial on the action in a hugely memorable way; overall, this "return" manages to blend tension, drama and just plain cool together most effectively of all.

2. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai - This is the biggest visible change in Goku, and one that cements his status as the only truly relevant (and basically untouchable) hero in Dragon Ball; I think this "return" lands with me as more of a 'coming of age' than any of the other moments in this list, as it manages to blend the obvious matter of becoming more powerful with the gaining of a surprising wisdom and acuteness of judgement. The OP says Goku's "in control" here, and I think that this is the first arc where Goku's presented as being somehow 'bigger' than the situation he finds himself in, no matter how far it escalates; even when he's had a hole blown through him, he's the one who's hitting hardest, and has a complete conviction that he will emerge victorious. I don't think we ever see such a total superiority from Goku, in power or character, at any other point in the whole series - it's almost like the 'completion' of him as a character, which Dragon Ball doesn't seem to have been particularly inclined to move on from since. However, for me, it's perhaps a little too total; I prefer the competitiveness that is retained in The Quiet Anger of Son Goku, which I think is a better handling of a scenario (as opposed to a character).

3. After Drinking Water of the Gods - For me, this is the original 'cool entrance' for Goku, and is blended with a sense of focused rage that I don't think is touched even by his later appearances - it feels like it's very personal, as a moment. For me, the phrase "You took away a lot that I really cared about...You won't get away with it!" stands among Goku's coolest and most memorable moments in all of Dragon Ball. Oddly, I think that after that, it's generally a bit downhill, as he almost casually one-ups the Daimao a bunch, but then gets drawn into a hostage scenario and is immobilised, which all feels a bit like an artificial twist in its attempt to keep the tension going after the initial encounter, which detracts from the positives a little; still, this return, at the moment where it appears all is about to be lost and the world is going to pass into darkness, still has a lot of impact as a fateful, 'all-or-nothing' encounter.

4. Emerging from the Rejuvenation Chamber and Facing Freeza - This one has to be a really big deal for most fans, I think, as a culmination of a narrative arc that takes in Goku's own pursuit of power with the theme of breaking the limits of even his Saiyan heritage, and ups it to its most extreme. It comes at a nadir in the fortunes of the heroes, as Freeza basically kills Vegeta by toying with him and it seems impossible that anyone can match him; by cranking the dial to 11 like that, it makes it all the more impactful that Goku returns with complete focus and composure, and shows how much he's grown as he takes on the mightiest villain there is. I think this manages, of all the "return" moments, to sell the feeling of 'it all comes down to this' the best (even better than the "return" against Piccolo Daimao); however, I'd say compared to the others, it's edged out of the top 3 by reason of it resting in the shadow of Goku's transformation later, which upstages it completely in importance.

5. Touchdown on Namek - This one would be higher, as seeing Goku establish himself as one of the real 'Big Fish' out there, well beyond even fighters with a reputation for their absurd strength, gives me a certain amount of pleasure, but it really just plays with the same stuff that 'The Quiet Anger of Son Goku' does better, and despite both Goku's cockiness (which I always enjoy) and Vegeta's reaction managing to sell a lot of it as a huge deal, this ultimately serves as a bridge to Goku's true 'Big Fish' moment in his emergence from the Rejuvenation Chamber. So, while it's good in and of itself, it's unfortunately placed between two moments that treat the "return" much better.

6. Son Goku Strikes Back Against Tao Pai Pai - This is fine and all, but next to the other 'moments' in the list, this one pales a bit by comparison; most of the properly cool moments Goku gets don't really belong to this return as such, but rather to ensuing events, when he takes down the whole Red Ribbon army and demonstrates the full extent of his power against Baba's fighters - it doesn't help that 'reaction' to the scale of Goku's achievement in taking down Tao Pai Pai is deferred until 3 years later. So, most of what's memorable about this "return" doesn't belong to the return proper, which I think is what counts against it most in the end.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:37 am

BWri wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:56 am I personally like the ones where Goku's power increase seems more natural and earned.

My favorite two have to be:
1. 23 Tenkaichi Budokai
2. Touchdown on Namek

I prefer Goku's attitude in Dragon Ball, mainly for the setting, because he was also allowed to be playful with his power increase and showoff a little to his friends. I also liked that the gap between him and his rivals wasn't so large that they couldn't successfully compete and that the bulk of his increase could be attributed also to the skills he'd gained. It's also as you said, he was so at ease and in control that it made him truly stand out as a protagonist and more and more it became so difficult to wait for the inevitable finals of the 23 TB. Both he and Piccolo knew how it was going to go down the entire time, almost like a private joke between them.

On Namek, I just like that his training was so grueling, gradual, and unprecedented that it allowed him to become one of the most powerful fighters in the universe along the way. I prefer to think that this journey took several months like in the anime, but either way it's the ultimate expression of "Hard work pays off".
At this point I'm farther along in the manga, on the introduction of Cell, so I'm past all of these moments. After reading Goku's training on the way to Namek in the manga, I'm inclined to agree with you on the actual training being some of Goku's best. Very interesting point on the training being more natural, I hadn't thought of it that way. I think it's neat that his childhood friend's father was able to design him a ship that could level him up so significantly.The Touchdown on Namek would rank higher for me, but even though I love the circumstances of that training, for me it's more about the moment where he first shows himself. And as great as it was, for me it wasn't quite as epic as his return in the Saiyan arc.

As for the 23rd, I agree very much with all those points. And there's a really nice, gradual buildup to seeing what Goku can actually do. His physical transformation also reflects his mental transformation and growth as a martial artist there as well, making it incredibly impactful.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:39 am

Matches Malone wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:05 am Goku Emerging from the Rejuvenation Chamber and arriving on the battlefield is definitely a highlight for me. Up to that point Freeza was just dragging everyone through the mud, going as far as to turn the strongest of them into a crying bi*ch. When Goku arrived though, you could tell from that epic entrance that everything was going to be OK...unless you were Krillin, but apart from that, you knew Freeza was going to get his behind kicked.
Now that I've read past this in the manga, I probably would put this higher in my ranking, probably above Touchdown on Namek. Although it took awhile for Goku to gain the edge (things were dire for awhile), I agree; this entrance showcased that it was about to go down. There was something about the casual way Goku "whooshed" into the scene, causing everyone, including Freeza, to turn their heads. Goku was going to give Freeza one hell of a fight.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:46 am

Psajdak wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:13 am Overall, I'd say him being revived in Saiyan arc - his base PL increased significantly, plus he learned Kaioken, and Genki Dama - some of the most useful tehniques in series.

But I have to also say that it felt really rewarding when he, and Kuririn took off those turtle shells, or when he turned down gravity before arriving on Namek.
Kaioken and the original Genki Dama (the small one used on Vegeta) are probably my favorite Goku techniques in the entire Dragon Ball series. I prefer Kaioken even to the SSJ forms; there's just something about it, how it functions as a power amplifier but also makes the body unstable...and seeing it in action with the red aura...chills. (It's one of the many reasons I love those first 3 DBZ movies). And I've always loved the animation of Vegeta getting hit with the Genki Dama (and Dr. Wheelo in World's Strongest), it really sells the power of the technique. One can only imagine if Goku had these techniques against the likes of King Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., and Raditz (well, it would've killed them obviously, and Goku at the time wouldn't have been able to withstand it, but still).
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Which Goku Return/Power Increase is Your Favorite In the Original Series? (not Including Transformations)

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:59 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:39 pm For me, I think the order is probably as follows:

1. Return from Afterlife Training with Kaio-Sama/The Quiet Anger of Son Goku - This is the one that really makes Goku break out as a big deal, even in the 'bigger pond' that is the wider Galaxy; given the struggle he had with Raditz in the earlier part of the arc, it's so good to see him come back totally confident and make a fool of a guy who dwarfs Raditz's power - and at a time where we've just seen a bunch of Earth's strongest warriors unceremoniously offed, as well as the death of his greatest rival in saving his son, too. Goku's put on a pedestal here as Earth's only real hope from the outset, and he completely lives up to the hype that narrative manoeuvre gives him, which is deeply satisfying. What's more, the inclusion of stuff like Kaio-Ken (possibly his coolest move) allows him to compete at a level above that and crank up the dial on the action in a hugely memorable way; overall, this "return" manages to blend tension, drama and just plain cool together most effectively of all.

2. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai - This is the biggest visible change in Goku, and one that cements his status as the only truly relevant (and basically untouchable) hero in Dragon Ball; I think this "return" lands with me as more of a 'coming of age' than any of the other moments in this list, as it manages to blend the obvious matter of becoming more powerful with the gaining of a surprising wisdom and acuteness of judgement. The OP says Goku's "in control" here, and I think that this is the first arc where Goku's presented as being somehow 'bigger' than the situation he finds himself in, no matter how far it escalates; even when he's had a hole blown through him, he's the one who's hitting hardest, and has a complete conviction that he will emerge victorious. I don't think we ever see such a total superiority from Goku, in power or character, at any other point in the whole series - it's almost like the 'completion' of him as a character, which Dragon Ball doesn't seem to have been particularly inclined to move on from since. However, for me, it's perhaps a little too total; I prefer the competitiveness that is retained in The Quiet Anger of Son Goku, which I think is a better handling of a scenario (as opposed to a character).

3. After Drinking Water of the Gods - For me, this is the original 'cool entrance' for Goku, and is blended with a sense of focused rage that I don't think is touched even by his later appearances - it feels like it's very personal, as a moment. For me, the phrase "You took away a lot that I really cared about...You won't get away with it!" stands among Goku's coolest and most memorable moments in all of Dragon Ball. Oddly, I think that after that, it's generally a bit downhill, as he almost casually one-ups the Daimao a bunch, but then gets drawn into a hostage scenario and is immobilised, which all feels a bit like an artificial twist in its attempt to keep the tension going after the initial encounter, which detracts from the positives a little; still, this return, at the moment where it appears all is about to be lost and the world is going to pass into darkness, still has a lot of impact as a fateful, 'all-or-nothing' encounter.
Nice, we have the same top 3, just slightly different order (although my 2 and 3 could swap on any given day). I highlighted the key points you made that I especially agree with that elevated these moments for me. You made some points that, for me, indicate why the Saiyan arc works so well as a contination from the 23rd Budokai/Piccolo Jr arc. As you said, there's a sense of satisfaction and a completion of sorts for Goku's growth as a martial artist. He represents the best of the best...and then his evil alien brother shows up at his front door. It takes the enemy he just fought teaming up with him to take Raditz down, only for Goku to die in the process. And it's through dying where he receives training from Kaio Sama and returns on an entirely different level from before, just faced against MUCH more threatening foes than before. If the characters (our heroes and Piccolo) were standing on the proverbial rug in during the 23rd, that rug was pulled out from under them in all sorts of directions in the Saiyan arc.

The focused rage of Goku after his power-up in the King Piccolo arc...it's just so palpable. You can feel it in the manga/anime, just how serious he is, how much more attuned. And it's still coupled with that sense of terror and dread that make the Kinhg Piccolo arc stand out so well. All of this combines to create a truly epic moment and change for Son Goku.
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The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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