Would A Jiren/Toppo Fusion Be Stronger Than Vegetto Or Gogeta?

[theherodjl]

Especially if the hypothetical fusion could whip out Jiren's LB power up and/or Toppo's Hakaishin form? Might we see a fusion that finally overwhelms Goku & Vegeta's?

[Lionel]

I assume this is Potara fusion as the Fusion Dance may not be possible due to incompatibilities between the two.

Isn't Jiren an order of magnitude stronger than Toppo? The resulting fusion should net a pretty sizable increase in power regardless. It could potentially surpass Gogeta/Vegetto if all of the characters' respective permutations are allowed that you mentioned. I would otherwise say that it wouldn't be due to both characters being equal to their Saiyan opponents at best when they were at their strongest in the same arc. In a situation like that I suspect the Saiyan fusion would be superior for the simple reason that Goku and Vegeta seem to compliment each other very well as opposites in a merging.

[JewyB]

I assume this is Potara fusion as the Fusion Dance may not be possible due to incompatibilities between the two.

This isn't really correct, the only thing that would necessarily stop them is the height difference, but we have no official height for either of them and i'm pretty certain that idea has been ditched, especially since Toriyama himself has claimed that anyone can fuse via dance, it just has varying levels of difficulty:

I think it’s possible to merge no matter the conditions, as long as it all goes well. I even think it’s possible for a larger number of people. However, since it’s quite hard for both parties to strike that delicate balance, it’s very difficult for two extremely different people to fuse. In that sense, synchronized swimmers would probably be really good at Fusion. By the way, there are many different types of Fusion, and the kind Goku learned is the one for increasing battle power.

I'd imagine Jiren and Toppo are capable of matching their power levels and mastering the dance moves, so i don't see a reason the dance wouldn't work.

As for OPs question, i think it depends when. ToP then yes, Broly arc and after, i think it's more debatable. If Goku and Vegeta were to fuse now and Jiren and Toppo haven't improved, then Gogeta/Vegeto would destroy Jippo/Toren in my opinion.

[nickzambuto]

They can’t do the dance. Toppo is like 8 feet tall and easily weighs over 1,000 pounds. Even his arms are disproportionately long and large compared to the rest of himself, imagine him trying to line his fingers up with Jiren at the end of the dance. Jiren is the size of a normal buff human and has less than half the body mass of Toppo. Their bodies are completely incompatible.

[JewyB]

Your argument falls down based on one simple thing we have been shown:



Piccolo and Krillin may not have fused, but they have very different body types and are still capable of matching the dance up with each other. Arguably Jiren and Toppo have much finer precision and control of their bodies due to the levels of power they are working with. It would take them a small amount of time to figure it out. Not to mention Pride troopers seem to be pretty practiced when it comes to posing.

Unless we see it confirmed or denied in canon the only thing's we have to go off of are statements from early in the series, and Toriyamas words himself, which seem to imply it isn't impossible.

EDIT: Also, not saying it's 100% possible, but saying its not impossible and we can't just write it off based on what we know.

[Koitsukai]

Well, currently it's unfair because the saiyan fusion would have access to Sign at the very least, and I'm inclined to say UI too. Joppo would destroy BR: Gogeta Blue though. While Vegeta is stronger than Toppo, Jiren is stronger than Goku by a wider margin.

[nickzambuto]

Your argument falls down based on one simple thing we have been shown:



Piccolo and Krillin may not have fused, but they have very different body types and are still capable of matching the dance up with each other. Arguably Jiren and Toppo have much finer precision and control of their bodies due to the levels of power they are working with. It would take them a small amount of time to figure it out. Not to mention Pride troopers seem to be pretty practiced when it comes to posing.

Unless we see it confirmed or denied in canon the only thing's we have to go off of are statements from early in the series, and Toriyamas words himself, which seem to imply it isn't impossible.

EDIT: Also, not saying it's 100% possible, but saying its not impossible and we can't just write it off based on what we know.

Remember in the Broly movie when Goku and Vegeta failed the dance a second time, the animation actually showed a shot with measurements to explain how the angle of Goku and Vegeta did not match. Their fingers lined up, but their stances were not the exact same angle. This is what would happen with Jiren and Toppo, at their different body masses, there is no way they could line up at the same angle.

[JewyB]

Remember in the Broly movie when Goku and Vegeta failed the dance a second time, the animation actually showed a shot with measurements to explain how the angle of Goku and Vegeta did not match. Their fingers lined up, but their stances were not the exact same angle. This is what would happen with Jiren and Toppo, at their different body masses, there is no way they could line up at the same angle.

Are you forgetting the part in the Broly movie where Goku and Vegeta also succeed and fuse?

Mistakes are possible, yes, but so are no mistakes. This would make sense if goku and vegeta weren't shown to overcome this problem in the exact same movie. Goten and Trunks are of equal height and also manage to make mistakes when fusing. It is to do with practice and precision more so than height.

I am fully capable of shaking a 3 year olds hand but i have to be aware of where that 3 year olds hand will be.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Seeing as how Jiren is potentially as strong as SSB Fusions with his trauma-induced max power if not stronger and plenty close enough with his normal full power, and that Toppo can reach the lower rungs of the level of a God of Destruction?

They'd EASILY overtake the likes of Vegetto or Gogeta, where Ultra Instinct doesn't seem to factor into the equation seeing as how Ultra Instinct may potentially be stronger on its own.

[Matches Malone]

If I'm not mistaking, the strength of fusion depend on how compatible the two beings are, so then there's a chance the fusion would actually backfire on them due to their multiple differences, while working perfectly in Goku and Vegeta's favor. Also, didn't the old kai say something about the fusion of rivals being stronger than the average fusion ? if so, that's another advantage Gogeta/Vegetto have.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

If I'm not mistaking, the strength of fusion depend on how compatible the two beings are, so then there's a chance the fusion would actually backfire on them due to their multiple differences, while working perfectly in Goku and Vegeta's favor. Also, didn't the old kai say something about the fusion of rivals being stronger than the average fusion ? if so, that's another advantage Gogeta/Vegetto have.

Of course, there also comes a point where the sheer power levels of the Fusion fodder in question makes this kinda moot.

In particular, Jiren is already almost as strong by himself as the SSB Fusions of Goku and Vegeta, if not potentially stronger. Even if he only got marginally stronger by fusing with Toppo, that could still be more than enough to overtake them.

[miguelnuva1]

If Gogeta and Vegito have UI they win. If not they lose. This would be like Gohan and Gotenks fusing in the Buu saga. Hantenks should beat Vegito.