How to Fix SSj4

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Saturnine
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How to Fix SSj4

Post by Saturnine » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:01 am

Hey guys, sooo I know there was a discussion like this a few years ago but I didn't want to necro that thread. I kinda went ahead and made a youtube channel and a vid detailing my own impressions of SSj4 and the problems I see with it. Just advertising it here, pretty much. But feel free to discuss, I wonder if someone actually agrees with me on this!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxZDTlsk80Y

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:10 am

The only point I agree with is that the red fur is kinda random.

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Saturnine
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Saturnine » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:50 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:10 am
The only point I agree with is that the red fur is kinda random.
Interesting, the point most people have the easiest time agreeing with is the name being off, usually :P

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:43 am

You don't fix what isn't broken.

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Peach » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:31 am

Super Saiyan 4 is fine as it is.

Vegeta just needs to not wear tacky leather pants with it.

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Saturnine
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Saturnine » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:18 pm

I must be overly obsessed with minor details or something I guess lol

I really can't live down the color scheme, it makes absolutely no sense and is only dictated by the rule of cool rather than logic. Glad DBS Broly presented a more sensible take on the concept

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by TobyS » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:54 pm

Saturnine wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:18 pm
I must be overly obsessed with minor details or something I guess lol

I really can't live down the color scheme, it makes absolutely no sense and is only dictated by the rule of cool rather than logic. Glad DBS Broly presented a more sensible take on the concept
Yeah literally black hair like the saiyans have, brown like their tails, gold like supersaiyan, literally any of those colours would make sense.

A black SS4 would look cool and fit with the ultimate gohan thing of consistency of "your strongest form doesn't require changing hair colour".

Red is just out of nowhere but keeps black hair, on top but does change the tail colour... but not eyebrows.

Also adds eyeliner, and gives eyebrows back when super saiyan 3 loses em... but keeps the irises.

There's no continuity or consistency or logic or anything, even if it did look better and not overproduced and cringe and furry adjacent it's just weird and undragonball-like....

I actually don't mind it in Super Heroes for some reason. I guess because we don't see any of the bad GT leading up to it, we can imagine their GT esque events (of which I think we only see a shadow dragon battlefield briefly) having occured in a cooler way much more in keeping with classic DB.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:07 pm

I agree that it could certainly look less tacky, but I think GT being 99% off model and otherwise poorly animated might've had something to do with that.
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:03 pm

I love ssj4's design. I think it's really great and the fact it's so different adds to it. However, it's not entirely out of nowhere I would say. Think of the Oozaru's eyes. Red. I think its a stretch but still.

However, there is this awesome alternate version... But the red is perfect in my eyes.

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by theherodjl » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:08 pm

I would have liked it if SSJ4 was just gold as it's standard color, turning red when Goku absorbed energy from the other Saiyans as a way to visually signify the difference in power that Full Power SSJ4 demonstrated. In a post-BOG franchise, it would also be a nice callback to SSJG and the method of obtaining a red form from absorbing the power of multiple other Saiyans.
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Trouser » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:38 pm

Red color in SSJ4 is just as random as red in SSJG and blue in SSJB. It's design choice, nothing more. Just like gold in SSJ. Why is it gold? Becasue Toriyama was lazy author choosed gold.
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Saturnine » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:47 pm

Trouser wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:38 pm
Red color in SSJ4 is just as random as red in SSJG and blue in SSJB. It's design choice, nothing more. Just like gold in SSJ. Why is it gold? Becasue Toriyama was lazy author choosed gold.
Yeah it's a design choice, though a jarring one. SSj God and Blue are a paradigm shift, something completely new that is not meant to have a connection to earlier forms, while SSj4 is meant to condense the Golden Oozaru into the human form - meaning that it's supposed to be a combo of Ozaru and SSj. They came up with the Golden Ozaru to circumvent the fact that regular Ozaru is nothing special in terms of power at that point in the story, so it would stand to reason that a golden Ozaru condensed into a humanoid form should keep the same color scheme, otherwise you just don't see the connection.

I will concede though that going by this logic, SSj combined with SSj God should yield orange, not blue :lol:
TobyS wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:54 pm
Also adds eyeliner
To be fair, that is red fur overgrowing the eyelids. What you see normally is just the bottom eyelid.
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:07 pm
I agree that it could certainly look less tacky, but I think GT being 99% off model and otherwise poorly animated might've had something to do with that.
You might be on to something with the off model thing, but I'd say the art and animation are not that much worse than in the Buu arc. It was a continuous run after all. GT has a myriad of issues, but IMO saying the animation is one of them would be borderline nitpicking, that might just be me though haha

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:15 pm

Saturnine wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:47 pm


You might be on to something with the off model thing, but I'd say the art and animation are not that much worse than in the Buu arc. It was a continuous run after all. GT has a myriad of issues, but IMO saying the animation is one of them would be borderline nitpicking, that might just be me though haha
GT never had its own Studio Cockpit moment.

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by ankokudaishogun » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:18 am

Brown fur(like Gogeta's). Black hair.
Done.

(the red eyeliner is actually to mimic the ozaru red eyes so it's fine.)

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by TobyS » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:06 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:18 am
Brown fur(like Gogeta's). Black hair.
Done.

(the red eyeliner is actually to mimic the ozaru red eyes so it's fine.)
To paraphrase ocelot “not bad, but the eyeliner confers no tactical advantage”

Is it confirmed that's fur? On their eye? eww that's like getting your moustache in your mouth x1000

Also as long as we are bitching about GT wtf does x10 kamehameha mean? You can put as much or as little of your remaining ki into an attack as you like, there's no default amount to multiply. How stupid.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:58 pm

This seems like a thread that would better fit the general discussion board, but regardless, it’s an interesting topic.

I always liked the Super Saiyan 4 design. I always saw it as a very creative form that does a good job of harkening back to the Ozaru form. With that said, I can understand why some might not like it, when compared to the simplicity of the original Super Saiyan form, or Super Saiyan God. The form in general does have a certain 90s vibe to it.

Also, personally, while having gold fur would likely make more sense, I actually kind of like the red fur better. It’s a nice change of pace.

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Saturnine
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Saturnine » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:11 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:18 am
Brown fur(like Gogeta's). Black hair.
Done.

(the red eyeliner is actually to mimic the ozaru red eyes so it's fine.)
Gogeta's fur is dark magenta actually.
TobyS wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:06 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:18 am
Brown fur(like Gogeta's). Black hair.
Done.

(the red eyeliner is actually to mimic the ozaru red eyes so it's fine.)
To paraphrase ocelot “not bad, but the eyeliner confers no tactical advantage”

Is it confirmed that's fur? On their eye? eww that's like getting your moustache in your mouth x1000
Yes, we know it's fur, since when Goku blinks and closes his eyes, his entire eyelids are red.
Image
Also as long as we are bitching about GT wtf does x10 kamehameha mean? You can put as much or as little of your remaining ki into an attack as you like, there's no default amount to multiply. How stupid.
Yeah, that's another example of absolutely dumb nomenclature. Also, it's kinda funny that Goku used the regular blue Kamehameha as well, alternating between that and the red one. They couldn't keep this crap consistent, but that's generally a big problem with GT.

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by TobyS » Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:53 am

I feel like this implies the skin is red, a layer of fur on your eyelids would be body horror when your eye is open it'd bunch up at the top.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Saturnine
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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by Saturnine » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:35 pm

TobyS wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:53 am
I feel like this implies the skin is red, a layer of fur on your eyelids would be body horror when your eye is open it'd bunch up at the top.
You may be right, since Goku's eyeliner is deep red as opposed to his pinkish fur and Vegeta's the same. Still, that makes even less sense, since we can't really know what it's meant to be. Red skin kinda makes just as little sense as fur on the eyelids really

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Re: How to Fix SSj4

Post by TobyS » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:48 pm

Saturnine wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:35 pm
TobyS wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:53 am
I feel like this implies the skin is red, a layer of fur on your eyelids would be body horror when your eye is open it'd bunch up at the top.
You may be right, since Goku's eyeliner is deep red as opposed to his pinkish fur and Vegeta's the same. Still, that makes even less sense, since we can't really know what it's meant to be. Red skin kinda makes just as little sense as fur on the eyelids really
Yeah it's still completely out of nowhere in and in no way connected to anything else.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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