Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

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GreatSaiyaman123
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Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:31 am

Both Goku and Freeza sustained injuries that ought to have weakened them in their fight. Goku took a hell of a beating and wasted energy on the Kaio-Ken and the Genki-Dama while Freeza got hit by the Genki-Dama and barely survived. Piccolo or Gohan even noted Goku’s Ki diminished a lot. Surely this damage should have affected their ability to put forth their strongest powers, shouldn’t it?
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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:53 am

No, they were pretty fucked up, definitely not at their best form.

While in their best shape they'd be 150M and 120M, effectively speaking they probably were around half their power, considering Freeza almost died and had lost part of his tail and Goku's body had withstood a KKx20 on top of a beating. Probably Goku was in worse shape and that's why it was so even for so long?

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FP Freeza 60 M

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:15 am

In theory, perhaps this is true.

But I really don't get the impression that the manga is trying to give us the idea that either of them have anything more to give - the whole dramatic thrust of their fight is that it's both of them putting everything they have on the table and Freeza coming up short. If the lines were blurred by ideas such as Freeza's '100%' not really being 100% of his power, or whatever, I think that would impede this particular message.

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:34 am

If DBS isn't involved, probably on Freeza, no on Goku. For Freeza, someone who was born as powerful as he was, he says he never trained, but what we learned with space faring monsters was the power they got from birth is all they got, so Freeza wasn't ever going to get stronger. He'd probably decline, whenever his race experiences old age. As for Goku, he went on to achieve SSJ3, and I don't think even then was his peak.

With DBS, even their base forms are given such a boost in power that its easy to just say no.

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by nickzambuto » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:38 am

They had injuries but their power levels don't change. They only continue to get stronger as the fight progresses and they both take more damage. Same with the Tournament of Power, they were getting tired but their actual strength was only increasing, never decreasing.

If Goku's arm was messed up than maybe he couldn't throw a punch properly, but his actual power level was definitely 150M.

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by Lionel » Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:59 am

I suspect that they weren't at their optimal fighting power during the last bout. Goku couldn't even stand properly on his own when he transformed and Freeza, who seemed to incure the bulk of his damage from the Spirit Bomb, looked pretty weatherworn himself. Don't get me wrong. Super Saiyan definitely looked to be giving Goku a second wind. I just don't think that he was as strong as he may have been if somehow he had transformed after immediately arriving onto the battlefield post-healing.

We've seen prior examples of exhausted characters coming up short in fights before or being demonstrably weaker than they were originally like Goku against Tambourine (first encounter), Piccolo Jr fighting Goku at the end (still powerful enough to handle the humans though), and Vegeta fighting the reinforcements who came to rescue Goku.

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:24 pm

I'm sorry, but isn't that question loaded given how far both have come since then?
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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by TobyS » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:47 pm

So I always liked to believe that for narrative purposes Goku and Freeza were basically equally wounded.

So even if they weren't at their hypothetical maxes it was the same outcome and it was a fair fight when Goku proved his superiority.

Another take is once Freeza was allowed to reach 100% he was as strong as he would have been and only Goku was weaker.

This would explain why non wounded Goku (or, well, his roughly equal Trunks) beat Powered Up mecha Freeza even easier then he did on Namek despite mostly only learning teleportation and flying through space and healing without a chamber in that time
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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:22 am

Unless going SSJ or 100% restores all of ki and vitality then no, i don't think they were at their peak at that time. We had similar situation with Goku SS4 being about equal to Oozaru Baby Vegeta, but both got a lot of beating before reaching those forms, especially Goku. At the very end of fight we see both restoring their power and then Goku completely stomped him. If Goku and Frieza ate senzu beans before their final fight, things should've looked different as well, including Goku defeating him a bit faster at least. That's my opinion.
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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by coola » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:10 pm

Both Goku and Freeza took pretty serious beating (Especially Freeza, taking Genki Dama) it surely took some power away from them, hard to tell how much it affected them through:
- Piccolo Jr. got pretty serious beatdown, yet Tenshinhan and others still were no match for him.
- Vegeta took Kaio-ken X4 Kamehameha, got weaker after creating artificial moon, took on Genki Dama, but Kuririn and Yajirobe were still one shot KO by him.
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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:57 pm

Worth pointing out Freeza is never stated to have been weakened by the Genki-Dama, so I think the question is mostly directed at Goku here.
FoolsGil wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:34 am
If DBS isn't involved, probably on Freeza, no on Goku. For Freeza, someone who was born as powerful as he was, he says he never trained, but what we learned with space faring monsters was the power they got from birth is all they got, so Freeza wasn't ever going to get stronger. He'd probably decline, whenever his race experiences old age. As for Goku, he went on to achieve SSJ3, and I don't think even then was his peak.

With DBS, even their base forms are given such a boost in power that its easy to just say no.
DragonBallFoodie wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:24 pm
I'm sorry, but isn't that question loaded given how far both have come since then?
Not if you read the description in the OP.
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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:24 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:57 pm
Not if you read the description in the OP.

*reads OP*

...The answer is yes. Goku was already completely tapped out after the genki dama, and even if Freeza could keep pummeling Goku after surviving the genki dama, He shouldn't be able to bring forth his 100%, and perhaps should have dropped to one of his lower forms.

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:15 am

Frieza was at full power but his stamina was depleted because of injury. Hurt Frieza could be at full power for a couple minutes where as healthy Frieza could fight at full power for an hour or more for example.

Goku's SS form seemed to full restore his reserves which was likely the rage and adrenaline.

Goku when he powered down to base briefly looked better than his first transformation.

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Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?

Post by Cipher » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:35 am

No; they were mostly fighting over the ocean.

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