How Strong Does A Fighter Need To Be To Decimate An Entire Civilization?

[theherodjl]

Like how the Saiyans & Freeza's Army does with worlds? Suppose that there is somehow a planet out there where every inhabitant has a power level of 10,000 with a few individuals getting as far up as 100,000. How much stronger would a single fighter need to conquer that entire race if said race decided to fight back?

[nickzambuto]

To conquer Earth you only really need to be as strong as RRA arc Goku. He defeated the world's most powerful army in one battle. Nothing else could have stopped him after that and he could have just went around destroying cities for awhile. In fact it's implied that an adolescent Kakarot going Great Ape should have been enough to take over Earth. A power level of 100 easily grants you the ability to take over the world, discounting for random strong individuals who could pop up.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I suppose it would depend on the type of technology, tactics, special abilities and techniques this hypothetical race had.

[Helios518]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

[Koitsukai]

I think Final Form Freeza could subdue hundreds or thousands of 10,000 to 100,000 PL people without even using half his power. Counting special abilities, technological advances, etc, probably a Namek SS would be enough to overcome anything. I might be giving this race too much credit, though.

Perfect Cell should be able to take over a world with a race as large as ours with those power levels, including haxes and whatnot.

[nickzambuto]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

This also brings up another point. Anyone strong enough to destroy a planet could just do it from orbit, or some uninhibited place, and unless everyone on the planet can survive in space, or they have an angel to rewind time, they're screwed, even if they are all stronger than the attacker.

[Koitsukai]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

Well, not necessarily, if they attack when there's no full moon and strike fast, the few able to create a fake moon would fail to do so. And if they succeed at that, it's just an energy ball that could be wiped out by another attack of above 40,000 PL characters, or by one with 120,000 PL. A well-planned, forceful strike on the King's palace should defuse the ohzaru stuff.
Besides, not many ohzaru would be strong enough to challenge the Tokusentai. 30 years later, Nappa was still struggling around 4,000-7,000 units of power. And he was the Prince's "bodyguard".

[nickzambuto]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

Well, not necessarily, if they attack when there's no full moon and strike fast, the few able to create a fake moon would fail to do so. And if they succeed at that, it's just an energy ball that could be wiped out by another attack of above 40,000 PL characters, or by one with 120,000 PL. A well-planned, forceful strike on the King's palace should defuse the ohzaru stuff.
Besides, not many ohzaru would be strong enough to challenge the Tokusentai. 30 years later, Nappa was still struggling around 4,000-7,000 units of power. And he was the Prince's "bodyguard".

Actually a 4,000 Nappa would become 40,000 as Oozaru which is about the same as Recoome, Jeice and Burter. Toriyama said that there were at least 10 mid class saiyans like Nappa, so if they are all Great Apes, Recoome, Jeice and Burter are getting stomped.

Even if the King is killed immediately and they somehow know about Bardock and kill him too, 10 mid class Oozarus around 40,000 each would probably be enough to destroy the Ginyu Force including Ginyu.

[Koitsukai]

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

Well, not necessarily, if they attack when there's no full moon and strike fast, the few able to create a fake moon would fail to do so. And if they succeed at that, it's just an energy ball that could be wiped out by another attack of above 40,000 PL characters, or by one with 120,000 PL. A well-planned, forceful strike on the King's palace should defuse the ohzaru stuff.
Besides, not many ohzaru would be strong enough to challenge the Tokusentai. 30 years later, Nappa was still struggling around 4,000-7,000 units of power. And he was the Prince's "bodyguard".

Actually a 4,000 Nappa would become 40,000 as Oozaru which is about the same as Recoome, Jeice and Burter. Toriyama said that there were at least 10 mid class saiyans like Nappa, so if they are all Great Apes, Recoome, Jeice and Burter are getting stomped.

Even if the King is killed immediately and they somehow know about Bardock and kill him too, 10 mid class Oozarus around 40,000 each would probably be enough to destroy the Ginyu Force including Ginyu.

But that's Nappa 30 years later, after countless battles and zenkais. Back in their day he probably was far from 4,000. And the prince was assigned to him, so he probably was amongst the best.

[Lionel]

Theoretically? Anyone of almost any level would be necessary to accomplish this. Dragon Ball isn't so inclined to properly flesh out the depth and facets of total war but if it did you would likely be seeing a scorched earth policy enacted with as many people as possible going underground while the world military enacts their own manga version of Operation Vegetarian. Unless they're biological anomalies like Buu or Beerus, the would-be conqueror without space capable transportation and a steady supply line is going to have to live off the land. Good luck accomplishing that when it's all burned to the ground or laced with a deadly pathogen.

[Lord Frieza]

I actually disagree with the idea that RRA Goku is powerful enough to achieve such a thing.

Lets not forget that at this point Goku was still affected by a lucky shot from a powerful hand held weapon. Machine gun fire hurt him, though it was not fatal and their are some explosive devices at this time powerful enough to seriously hurt or even kill him. While Goku did beat the RRA, one group dose not equal the combined military might of the earth. Greater numbers increase not only the chance of wearing someone of this level down over time, with proper planning, but also makes it more likely someone's going to get a lucky shot of and take them down. Then you've got all the military and scientific minds studying them in an effort to win.

If you ask me its at the point King Piccolo comes along that we see someone strong enough to take on the world and win. Piccolo is powerful enough to blow up entire cities and he could defeat the RRA so easily it's not even funny. He's got more then strength to trash whole chunks of any fighting force with just a wave of his hand and or without even moving at all. Also at this point most if not all conventional weapons are pretty much useless and even weapons of mass destruction won't be enough as your more then strong enough to outrun the blast.

[TobyS]

I'd agree with the king piccolo take.

However there's weird stuff where Goku thinks SS2 tier immortal zamasu can't take out the universe alone whereas scaling from daimao and Kaikai implies he should be able to

Also a lot of people made a point of the ToP where the dragon team thought like 48 minutes was a long time to fight.

So a world waging total war on you could probably wear a stronger guy down if they could keep coming for hours.

Then you have the idea that there aren't many inhabited planets (I choose to believe they meant distinct civilisations or sentient life versus strong animals)

And yet vegeta and Nappa had been in the extermination business for decade Perhaps it takes longer than previously thought...

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'd agree with the king piccolo take.

However there's weird stuff where Goku thinks SS2 tier immortal zamasu can't take out the universe alone whereas scaling from daimao and Kaikai implies he should be able to

Also a lot of people made a point of the ToP where the dragon team thought like 48 minutes was a long time to fight.

So a world waging total war on you could probably wear a stronger guy down if they could keep coming for hours.

Then you have the idea that there aren't many inhabited planets (I choose to believe they meant distinct civilisations or sentient life versus strong animals)

And yet vegeta and Nappa had been in the extermination business for decade Perhaps it takes longer than previously thought...

Well they keep introducing new races, villains, and powerful characters from Universe 7 that we've just never heard of before, so saying that someone could take out everyone in the whole universe is a pretty tall order.

[Helios518]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

DBZ had a 33% difference in power be a stomp (E.G Vegeta vs Cui). If King Vegeta were to go Oozaru, Ginyu would be 20% stronger likely meaning he would handly defeat Oozaru King Vegeta. Also it's debatable if Bardock is even near King Vegeta's power level anymore because of the DB Minus retcon. Besides that, even if the rest of the Saiyans managed to go Oozaru, they're still way too weak to not get stomped by Ginyu. None of this is taking into account if Ginyu knows the tail weakness which he likely does considering his connections.

Also wiping and conquering (the initial question) are completely different stories. Saiyans could get wiped if someone like Roshi decided to covertly do his moon-busting attack on the planet because the atmosphere would be wiped, leaving the Saiyans with no oxygen to survive. Of course, Roshi wouldn't survive but that would likely be the bare-minimum to kill most Saiyans.

[Yuli Ban]

With their own ki? If Muten Roshi can blow up the moon, he can blow up anything on Earth.* His Kamehameha is otherworldly stronger than any human weapon, and the existence of nuclear weapons alone causes the world to hesitate when dealing with nuclear powers (see the rhetoric change regarding North Korea circa 2010 vs 2020). If we blew up every nuke ever made at max power on the moon right now, we'd barely do more than put a crater on it that you probably wouldn't even be able to see that well without a telescope. Roshi blew the whole damn thing up in the second arc of the series. If Son Goku is even remotely a match for him, it stands to reason he could do the same. So if he seriously tried, then yeah I can see Red Ribbon Army-era Goku pulling it off (though he obviously has to be on his guard at all times).

In that situation, it's almost irrelevant to discuss anyone afterwards pulling off the same stunt. If Roshi could blow up the moon and blowing up the moon puts you far, far, faaaaaar beyond anything humans can handle, then obviously Daimao, Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, et al aren't going to be any worse at it.



*Indeed, the concept of "planet-buster" vs. "Moon buster" has always rung very odd to my ears. I get that the moon is 80x less massive than Earth, but... if you can destroy the moon, you're also going to leave Earth a horribly mangled and disfigured pile of rock.

If you want to get more esoteric with it and delve into the world of serious thought, deconstruction, and psychology (e.g. far removed from Dragon Ball) then the existence of even a single superhuman fighter would bring civilization to its knees just because that fighter exists at all. Human civilization as we know it actually does have a protocol for superhumans— to worship them and pay reverence to them. If, say, the Greek gods were real, no polity on Earth could put a god or demigod in prison if they were to kill someone and somehow be arrested; naturally that's going to mess with the functioning strength of civilization when some people literally cannot be restrained to our laws and codes of morality.
I do run with that in the story I linked in my sig, but as it's not written yet, I have nothing to use to show just how screwed an Earthling civilization would be if even an early DB-tier warrior showed up.

DB doesn't get into such matters, but there's little to suggest Dragon Ball Earth's civilization follows different rules despite the clear and obvious existence of superhuman mystical warriors. That Mr. Satan was able to convince people they didn't exist and they accept it as rationality makes me think few believed it all along.

[Yuli Ban]

Also a lot of people made a point of the ToP where the dragon team thought like 48 minutes was a long time to fight.

To be fair: it is. Even for well trained fighters, most fights barely last longer than 5 to 10 minutes (even after 5 minutes, a fight's usually just flailing meat); most untrained humans probably wouldn't be able to fight longer than 20 seconds. I don't much like the Karate Kid movies, but if there's one thing they got right, it's that an actual fight's going to be maybe four or five moves and both parties will be winded and tired by the end of it.

Anime, kung fu movies, Hollywood action movies, and video games greatly exaggerate just how much stamina you'd have in a fight.
But then again, Dragon Ball's a kung fu fantasy anime, so my whole post is redundant and worthless.

[Yuli Ban]

Like how the Saiyans & Freeza's Army does with worlds? Suppose that there is somehow a planet out there where every inhabitant has a power level of 10,000 with a few individuals getting as far up as 100,000. How much stronger would a single fighter need to conquer that entire race if said race decided to fight back?

Ah, in the case the planet itself actually has powerful warriors too? That changes things entirely. I agree with this take:

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

It's heavily implied that stronger characters can't withstand attacks from a multitude of weaker characters (within reason). If the entire senshi minus Son Goku teamed up to take down Nappa (so in other words, if Yamcha survived and Gohan didn't wimp out), it's likely they would have done it even though smaller groups of them were getting clapped. Not to mention various different tactics coming together such as a Taiyōken with a Kienzan while he's staggered or distracted would've taken him down. A Masenko + Makankosappo + Kikōhō + Kamehameha might've also delivered too damaging a blow for him to shrug off.

This tactic wouldn't work at all with Vegeta. He's so stupidly stronger than the senshi that the only way they even stood a chance was Son Goku nearly killing himself with a godly technique just to briefly overpower him long enough to get him flustered enough to make too many mistakes. A Kienzan might work, but anything less than that is going to be like the Namek crew in their attempts to fight final-form Freeza. So clearly at some point you can overpower even a united force just through raw strength. Maybe as long as you're 5x or 10x stronger than the strongest?

Delving back into power level wankery and assuming King Vegeta and Bardock were around 10,000 or above so, their Oozaru forms would easily put them within choking distance of Ginyu's stated max. The other Ginyus could also be overwhelmed by an army of high-level and mid-ranged Saiyans even if they could mass-holocaust most of the lower level ones. So this hypothesis rings true to my ears.

That said, assuming everyone was as strong as King Vegeta only means you need to be Freeza-tier to succeed in defeating them if you're thinking like a Saiyan and care more about the joys of combat and thrill of battle rather than victory alone (because obviously even this race wouldn't do so well if you did something like nuked the planet from orbit or turned the entire surface into molten lava or destroyed the atmosphere or spread an unstoppable virus).

So for a Saiyan, only the legendary Super Saiyajin, a warrior said to appear once every thousand years, could even hope to accomplish such a feat. If you can juggle second-form Freeza, taking this world shouldn't be too much.

[FoolsGil]

With one blast King Piccolo wiped out a single city. I'd say you have to be at his level at the minimum.

[nickzambuto]

I second the previous posters, it totally depends on the civilization and the fighter. RRA Goku essentially could do this with Earth in that arc but good luck with him trying to do that with Planet Vegeta. Planet Vegeta would probably need someone like Ginyu to stop an Oozaru King Vegeta and then after that, he can pretty much stomp any other Saiyan. Conquering Planet Sadal is even wilder if one assumes that Champa Arc base Cabba is even remotely representative of the average power level of Saiyans there.

I don't even think Ginyu could conquer planet Vegeta. Guys like Vegeta and Bardock would be way too close to him in their Great Ape forms, plus an army of other saiyans. I don't even think the whole Ginyu Force could do it.

Wiping out the saiyans was a job for Freeza alone, which is why he did it instead of sending someone else.

DBZ had a 33% difference in power be a stomp (E.G Vegeta vs Cui). If King Vegeta were to go Oozaru, Ginyu would be 20% stronger likely meaning he would handly defeat Oozaru King Vegeta. Also it's debatable if Bardock is even near King Vegeta's power level anymore because of the DB Minus retcon. Besides that, even if the rest of the Saiyans managed to go Oozaru, they're still way too weak to not get stomped by Ginyu. None of this is taking into account if Ginyu knows the tail weakness which he likely does considering his connections.

Also wiping and conquering (the initial question) are completely different stories. Saiyans could get wiped if someone like Roshi decided to covertly do his moon-busting attack on the planet because the atmosphere would be wiped, leaving the Saiyans with no oxygen to survive. Of course, Roshi wouldn't survive but that would likely be the bare-minimum to kill most Saiyans.

A lot of people say that but it's very inconsistent. Goku was twice as strong as Nappa but Nappa actually held his own when he focused in. KKx3 Kamehameha was more than 33% stronger than Galick Gun, yet they were stalemated. It's also stated at multiple points that a team up attack could work on vastly stronger opponents like Freeza.
I think every fight is different based on the people involved. 33% difference can be a stomp when you're facing a wimp like Cui, but someone like Goku has the ability to hold his own even when people are much more powerful than he is. Kid Boo had a 4x difference on Vegeta and he couldn't keep Vegeta down.