Can Kaioshin's power be felt by mortals?

[Mireya]

In the original manga, Vegeta states that no one of them could estimate Kaioshin's powers when he was in front of Piccolo ready to fight him, but is that enough? Maybe Vegeta couldn't get a reading on him since he was suppressed.

It's interesting that in Super, Piccolo states that no one could sense SSJG Goku's Ki since divine beings couldn't be sensed by mortals... but is SSJG and Beerus' Ki the same as East Kaioshin's? After all, Piccolo seemed to have no qualms attempting to attack Beerus while he was too tense to attempt anything against Kaioshin. So maybe SSJG's and Beerus' Ki are even more masked still than Kaioshin's one?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Piccolo probably didn't know Beerus was the current Hakaishin of the Universe, hence why had no issue attacking him, to him Beerus looked like just a purple cat causing problems.

[Grimlock]

In Dragon Ball? Yes. In Dragon Ball Super? Seemingly not.

I do remember Goku teleporting to Kaio of North's planet quite a few times. And those times where a character says they couldn't estimate (like the example you provided), the reason would be that Kaios/Kaioshins were hiding/supressing it.

They could retcon it, and say that they couldn't estimate/feel it because they have god ki, which would probably make sense, but then there's Goku still being able to teleport to Kaio of North's planet.

It's interesting that in Super, Piccolo states that no one could sense SSJG Goku's Ki since divine beings couldn't be sensed by mortals... but is SSJG and Beerus' Ki the same as East Kaioshin's? After all, Piccolo seemed to have no qualms attempting to attack Beerus while he was too tense to attempt anything against Kaioshin.

I take an issue with that. Piccolo was able to realize who Kaioshin of East was back in the tournament, and the explanation could only be that since he merged with Kami, he was able to figure out Kaioshin of East was a god too. But then he goes and attacks Beerus.

The situation only gets worse if you take into consideration Toei's retelling, where Dende was able to realize Beerus is a god. Again, since Piccolo merged with Kami and was able to realize who Kaioshin of East was, then he should've realized who Beerus was in both continuities (don't know how the scene plays out in the manga).


Maybe there are "different types of god ki"? But that's far-fetched and the series didn't even hint that to be the case.

[Mireya]

Piccolo probably didn't know Beerus was the current Hakaishin of the Universe, hence why had no issue attacking him, to him Beerus looked like just a purple cat causing problems.

Yeah, but he was too tense to attack Kaioshin... his instincts told him he was a God. Shouldn't the same happen with Beers if his Ki works more or less the same as Shin's?

I'm on the same boat as you, Grimlock. It seems Beerus' Ki was more masked or harder to be detected than Shin's.

[Polyphase Avatron]

They could retcon it, and say that they couldn't estimate/feel it because they have god ki, which would probably make sense, but then there's Goku still being able to teleport to Kaio of North's planet.

Maybe he locked onto Bubbles...

[theherodjl]

Its worth noting that the Hakaishin & Angels may be empowered by forces outside of the universes so that is why they cannot be sensed by anyone. Zeno appoints Hakaishin and presumably embues some of his power onto them(which would explain how both can eradicate people & objects from existence) and the children of Daishinkan probably inherit their father's extradimensional abilities. The Kaio & Kaioshin meanwhile, are born somewhere within each universe and possess qualities that classify them as being more akin to a natural order of organisms as opposed to beings like Zeno & Daishinkan.
Just a thought.

[Mireya]

Its worth noting that the Hakaishin & Angels may be empowered by forces outside of the universes so that is why they cannot be sensed by anyone. Zeno appoints Hakaishin and presumably embues some of his power onto them(which would explain how both can eradicate people & objects from existence) and the children of Daishinkan probably inherit their father's extradimensional abilities. The Kaio & Kaioshin meanwhile, are born somewhere within each universe and possess qualities that classify them as being more akin to a natural order of organisms as opposed to beings like Zeno & Daishinkan.
Just a thought.

Sure, but in Super, Piccolo stated that a mortal can't feel a deity chi and that knowledge existed before he knew of the Hakaishins existence... so that might be indicative of the other God's he had contact with.

[Civic]

I dont know why I think this but I thought Supreme Kai had both types of ki, which is why he can be sensed by mortals?

[Grimlock]

Maybe he locked onto Bubbles...

You would have to convince us (well, me) that he can sense Bubbles with its minuscule Ki even being so far away from Kaio of North's planet.

[Hugo Boss]

Maybe he locked onto Bubbles...

You would have to convince us (well, me) that he can sense Bubbles with its minuscule Ki even being so far away from Kaio of North's planet.

When Goku met Bubbles at first he mistook him for the North Kaio, so his ki is probably higher than Emma’s. Not to mention he can sustain that 10-fold Earth gravity with ease.

[Grimlock]

When Goku met Bubbles at first he mistook him for the North Kaio, so his ki is probably higher than Emma’s.

I don't know what relation the first sentence has with what comes after the comma. He mistook it because he didn't know how Kaio of North's looked like. It has nothing to do with Ki.

Not to mention he can sustain that 10-fold Earth gravity with ease.

I don't see that making any difference. Goku had to go to Kaio of North's planet before trying to go to Namekusei, and Namekusejins are stronger than Bubbles. Now, while Earth and Kaio of North's planet is probably closer to each other (than Earth and Namekusei), the problem is that Bubbles' Ki is so small that it makes it as much difficult as to go from Earth to Namekusei.

Unless Bubbles is actually stronger than a weak-to-average Namekuseijin, but I don't think that's the case...

[Hugo Boss]

When Goku met Bubbles at first he mistook him for the North Kaio, so his ki is probably higher than Emma’s.

I don't know what relation the first sentence has with what comes after the comma. He mistook it because he didn't know how Kaio of North's looked like. It has nothing to do with Ki.

Not to mention he can sustain that 10-fold Earth gravity with ease.

I don't see that making any difference. Goku had to go to Kaio of North's planet before trying to go to Namekusei, and Namekusejins are stronger than Bubbles. Now, while Earth and Kaio of North's planet is probably closer to each other (than Earth and Namekusei), the problem is that Bubbles' Ki is so small that it makes it as much difficult as to go from Earth to Namekusei.

Unless Bubbles is actually stronger than a weak-to-average Namekuseijin, but I don't think that's the case...

Maybe you don’t see the relation because you don’t want to believe he can be that strong or he doesn’t look strong. But the way Goku approaches him may be related to his ki. I’m not saying that is the case, but I believe this is a fair reason to the mistake.

Anyway, Bubbles has no problem with moving around the planet, while Goku had to work out a little to feel accustomed to it. Likely that could be attributed to his strength.

Another reason could be that the planet is so small and that Goku is used to Bubbles’ ki signature, that it makes easy to lock into his life force.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't believe anyone could sense Kaioshin or Kibito.

[Polyphase Avatron]

When Goku met Bubbles at first he mistook him for the North Kaio, so his ki is probably higher than Emma’s.

I don't know what relation the first sentence has with what comes after the comma. He mistook it because he didn't know how Kaio of North's looked like. It has nothing to do with Ki.

Not to mention he can sustain that 10-fold Earth gravity with ease.

I don't see that making any difference. Goku had to go to Kaio of North's planet before trying to go to Namekusei, and Namekusejins are stronger than Bubbles. Now, while Earth and Kaio of North's planet is probably closer to each other (than Earth and Namekusei), the problem is that Bubbles' Ki is so small that it makes it as much difficult as to go from Earth to Namekusei.

Unless Bubbles is actually stronger than a weak-to-average Namekuseijin, but I don't think that's the case...

Maybe you don’t see the relation because you don’t want to believe he can be that strong or he doesn’t look strong. But the way Goku approaches him may be related to his ki. I’m not saying that is the case, but I believe this is a fair reason to the mistake.

Anyway, Bubbles has no problem with moving around the planet, while Goku had to work out a little to feel accustomed to it. Likely that could be attributed to his strength.

Another reason could be that the planet is so small and that Goku is used to Bubbles’ ki signature, that it makes easy to lock into his life force.

Well according to the wiki (Yes, I know) there's one source that gives him a PL of 1000, but it's from a movie tie-in book.

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Bubbles#Power

[Grimlock]

Maybe you don’t see the relation because you don’t want to believe he can be that strong or he doesn’t look strong.

Then I'd like a source that states Bubbles' power level (in-universe, preferably). Because the series surely made it seems he isn't that strong.

Anyway, Bubbles has no problem with moving around the planet, while Goku had to work out a little to feel accustomed to it. Likely that could be attributed to his strength.

Yeah, Bubbles is certainly stronger than Earth's monkeys because of the gravity, but that doesn't mean his Ki can be easily sensed in the Universe.

Another reason could be that the planet is so small and that Goku is used to Bubbles’ ki signature, that it makes easy to lock into his life force.

Again, no relation. It doesn't matter if Goku is used to Bubbles' Ki when you can't feel it due to the distance. Getting used to it means that when/if Goku gets to feel an energy, he will recognize it and that searching for a specific Ki may take less time. Not that just because he is used to it, he can teleport to him any time. Goku has to search and find, that's how the technique works. The search part may be shortened due to getting used to a Ki, but that doesn't mean much when distance also plays a role here.

The distance is the issue and the Universe is big. So even with Goku used to Bubbles' Ki, I would like anything hinting that Goku can sense his tiny Ki which allows him to go to Kaio of North's planet. Otherwise I'm led to assume Goku goes there by locking onto Kaio of North's Ki, which now may have been a wrong thing thanks to Dragon Ball Super.

I don't believe anyone could sense Kaioshin or Kibito.

That's because the subject was never brought up as far as I remember. When Old Kaioshin appears, Goku says "he doesn't look strong" and attacks him. So we're led to assume the characters up until that point judged by their appearances and/or couldn't feel their supressed/hidden energy.

[Hugo Boss]

Just to clear any confusion, I'm not presenting any in-universe evidence for this thought. It's just that there are enough elements on the story that I think could lead to the assumption that Bubbles may be strong enough that Goku could be able to search for his ki, despite the distance between the planets. A possible reason is the planet being small and not having too much life force to distinct from another. Goku also seems to know where to aim his search. The situation was likely urgent enough that he focused all his spirit on a known target and managed to pull that off.

[Lionel]

Yeah, Shinjin should possess god ki as they are deities themselves. Kibito and Shin would be no different in this respect.

Another quandary is if Goku teleported himself and the other Saiyans to train at Kami's palace how was able to accomplish it? Does Popo not have god ki? I'm fairly certain he classifies of one of a sort.

[Hugo Boss]

Dende has god ki and regular ki, so Kami and Popo probably had both as well. Majin Boo also had both types.

[Melee_Sovereign]

My personal headcanon is that Kaioshin have both normal ki and divine ki. The reason for this is that they are Gods of Creation, and they need normal life ki to be able to create normal life.

[Anonymous Friend]

Dende has god ki and regular ki, so Kami and Popo probably had both as well. Majin Boo also had both types.

Do we have anything to officially released to back up this? Not saying I highly doubt you, or anything. My question would be, what is the process that embues them with this power. The series always felt like Kami and Dende accepts a role and just starts doing the job. Like a CEO or something.

Also, regarding Bubble's powerlevel. With whatever powerlevel he may have, doesn't that put him into the upper 3% of people in the universe (I'm being a bit laxed on that just due to the fact that there's probally a few trillion out there and most have normal Earthian levels of power.)? And I'm only refering to that story in the original run from beginning of Z till Defeat of Buu. Also, Bibbidi and Babbadi's power was mostly in their magic, so how much Ki power did they posess? Also, also, Piccolo might have been sensing a unknown/weird energy coming from S.Kai that made him feel uneasy about fighting him. Maybe some of the Kami-ness saying "this feels familair, don't engage" and when he encountered Beerus, he was just hiding everything, or Beerus has a different kind of power altogethr.