The only way to make Tullece's appearance in canon make sense would be...

[Yasai9001]

To set him up as Bardock's sibling.

Toriyama on Bardock

"Also, I think that Bardock himself might have had siblings, but perhaps even Bardock himself doesn’t really know, and at any rate, he probably has no interest in it, either.

Saiyans don’t have much of a concept of “family”.

Ever since Broly has been canonized, people have gone off the possibility of other movie villains being canonized as well, and finding many scenarios in which they could actually fit into the main storyline of Dragon Ball without causing any plotholes and furthering inconsistencies in the franchise.

So, in regards to Turles, the way I see it would be for him to be Bardock's brother - they don't even have to be identical twins, just siblings.

For one, people love to go by the fact that Turles has said that Lower-class Saiyans are struck from the same mold or something to that effect (even though it's coming from a non canon movie), yet if you also read everything in the link up above, you'd see Toriyama has also said this:

"To be honest, I haven’t thought it through that far, but Bardock is a low-class warrior. Although even saying that, almost all [Saiyans] were low-class warriors, and there were only about 10 mid-class warriors. And when you get to the elite warriors, there’s only King Vegeta and Prince Vegeta. Bardock is in the upper ranks as far as low-class warriors go, but he isn’t able to become a mid-class warrior.

This rank is determined by an innate latent battle power, but naturally, if their battle power rises greatly afterward, they can be promoted."

And as we can see from Dragon Ball Minus and Dragon Ball Super: Broly, which comes directly from him, the only similarities most of the Saiyans have is their black hair and black eyes, and their tail. We don't see a bunch of soldiers running around with the same hair and the exact same facial structure.

So if Turles were to be put into canon, the best way for his similar appearance to be explained would be for him to be Bardock's brother. This, of course, is assuming that IF Toriyama would ever go that route, he doesn't make changes to Turles' design like he made changes to Broly's.

As far as to how to fit him in the story, that's an entirely different thing in itself. Explaining his background in relations to Goku would be fairly easy if that route were to be taken (Even though it's really not worth the time to be honest).

Any takes?

[Koitsukai]

I never liked Turles or his sloppy-Goku looks, however if he were to be canonized, then I'm liking your proposal of having him be Bardock's long lost brother. I mean, if Vegeta got one, why couldn't a dead character also get a brother?

Uncles can be quite good villains, like Shakespeare proved. I guess he could've been barred from Vegeta-sei even before Broly was, or even before Raditz was born. He could've had a feud with Bardock and now with 50 years of hate inside of him, he unleashes it on his nephew.

But I'd rather keep exploring the existing characters than re-tell movie villains.

[Grimlock]

It's not the only way and it's pointless, just as Broly already is. Why keeping coming up with different versions when you can just bring the original one over? It's not like there is canon and that the only thing that exists is the "Toriyama continuity". Dragon Ball is no longer this linear story where everything else outside of it is just a fantasy of someone's mind.

Instead of creating counterparts (though it could be interesting from the point of view that they can interact with each other), just come up with a character that can open a rift in space and pull the movie characters out of it. It makes just as sense as time traveling.

[Yasai9001]

I never liked Turles or his sloppy-Goku looks, however if he were to be canonized, then I'm liking your proposal of having him be Bardock's long lost brother. I mean, if Vegeta got one, why couldn't a dead character also get a brother?

Uncles can be quite good villains, like Shakespeare proved. I guess he could've been barred from Vegeta-sei even before Broly was, or even before Raditz was born. He could've had a feud with Bardock and now with 50 years of hate inside of him, he unleashes it on his nephew.

But I'd rather keep exploring the existing characters than re-tell movie villains.

Turles could be an interesting foe, being an evil low-class warrior who rose up in power the same way as Goku does, by looking for that next challenge and fighting stronger opponents, all the while ducking and dodging Freeza and the Galactic Patrol. He could be canonized to be the perfect embodiment of a battle-hungry, evil Son Goku.

However, I agree with your take. There are existing characters that can bring so much more depth to the story and the franchise if they were to be explored more than anything else, especially simple re-tell movie villains as you correctly put it. In just a few chapters ago alone, an endless amount of possibilities opened up for the Namekians and their potential as an entire species - now imagine if that was done to other characters in the franchise. We need more stuff like that.

On the topic of movie villains though, if Toriyama were to keep doing this and sucking in all the money from it, I really wouldn't complain, only as long as he keeps adding to the story and other characters/lore of the franchise.

[Yasai9001]

It's not the only way and it's pointless, just as Broly already is. Why keeping coming up with different versions when you can just bring the original one over? It's not like there is canon and that the only thing that exists is the "Toriyama continuity". Dragon Ball is no longer this linear story where everything else outside of it is just a fantasy of someone's mind.

Instead of creating counterparts (though it could be interesting from the point of view that they can interact with each other), just come up with a character that can open a rift in space and pull the movie characters out of them. It makes just as sense as time traveling.

It may not be the only way, but this is in regards to keeping it in-universe, so not as opening up rifts of any kind and bringing them in from a different timeline or dimension of the sort, though I see what you're saying and it's not a bad idea at all.

When I come to think of a rift being opened, what I would genuinely like being explored is a hell on Earth - so to say, the Demon Realm being opened, but I doubt we'll ever get a high tensioned arc like that in Dragon Ball; would be nice, though.

[Grimlock]

It may not be the only way, but this is in regards to keeping it in-universe, so not as opening up rifts of any kind and bringing them in from a different timeline or dimension of the sort, though I see what you're saying and it's not a bad idea at all.

It is in-universe. The movies already take place in another dimension, all you need now is something/someone that can grant access to it.

There are already in-universe characters that can do it, the most recent one is Goku Black in the anime. So there's nothing really preventing that from happening. And it's better this way than to keep creating unnecessary versions that either way are pointless.

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think every character needs to be rebooted into the main series. I like characters like Tullece and Garlic Jr being their in own thing.

[LoganForkHands73]

While I'm far from gagging for a Tullece reappearance in any shape, this would be a cool way to reimagine him and explain his physical similarity to Bardock/Goku. I may be in the minority here, but if they absolutely had to bring the name 'Tullece' back into the main Toriyama continuities somehow, I'd much, much rather they reimagine him à la Broly rather than rip him wholehog out of the Toei movie universe or whatever. I can't think of anything less appealing than some villain ripping open a green space bunghole and Tullece of all jobbers popping out with a menacing pomegranate in hand. I really don't believe any serious non-Heroes storyline would use that trope anyway unless they're REALLY out of ideas, Toriyama's opinion that the Z Movies and filler take place in an alternate dimension almost certainly doesn't mean he has any intention to directly indulge in Toei's continuity whatsoever. That's just his way of politely handwaving them away without fully dismissing them.

One aspect of Tullece that should be retained is that he's a spacefaring foil to Goku, complete with his own set of Z-Warriors. I'd like to see that aspect of his backstory expanded somehow. How he met all his colourful henchmen and gained their loyalty. I like the detail that he has Goku's round, relaxed eyes, unlike Goku Black who has characteristically sharp "meanie eyes". Like with Super Broly, we could perhaps see a slightly more honourable side to Tullece. The one question is, how would they convincingly make him a worthy rival to Goku and Vegeta, especially in light of Broly's ridiculous power acceleration being a unique gift? The Tree of Might I guess, but it wasn't exactly convincing seeing Tullece evenly duel SSGSS Goku in the latest Heroes arc with nothing but the power of Fu's Fresh Fruits. They didn't even give him Super Saiyan, surprisingly.

[Grimlock]

And how exactly "reimagining" a character equals to them not running out of ideas? You can go two ways by "reimagining" someone:

• Change a few things.
• Change a lot of things.

• Change a few things •

What's the point? If you're going to come up with a character that barely distinguish itself from the old one, why not bring the old one already? Needless to say, this is the problem with Broly. He was able to tell a little story somewhere in the movie but that was literally it. Other than that, he embodies the very same bullshit we've got since 1993.

• Change a lot of things •

What's the point? If you're going to come up with a character that barely resembles the old one, might as well come up with a completely new character altogether.

So you see, it's pointless either way. Where's the appeal in "reimagining" a character? How is this any better than bringing the original one?

[LoganForkHands73]

And how exactly "reimagining" a character equals to them not running out of ideas? You can go two ways by "reimagining" someone:

• Change a few things.
• Change a lot of things.

• Change a few things •

What's the point? If you're going to come up with a character that barely distinguish itself from the old one, why not bring the old one already? Needless to say, this is the problem with Broly. He was able to tell a little story somewhere in the movie but that was literally it. Other than that, he embodies the very same bullshit we've got since 1993.

If they're trying to adapt an older character, it makes sense to change and remix some things while keeping the basic foundations that worked, Jeet Kun Do style. I consider Broly a success story. His most recognisable qualities are that he's a ridiculously gifted Saiyan with an abusive father -- that basic outline is retained, but Toriyama took it in a different, interesting direction. It's no different to any other kind of adaptation. BBC's Sherlock kept the basic characters and mystery plots but reimagined them in a modern setting to great effect.

• Change a lot of things •

What's the point? If you're going to come up with a character that barely resembles the old one, might as well come up with a completely new character altogether.

So you see, it's pointless either way. Where's the appeal in "reimagining" a character? How is this any better than bringing the original one?

I'd agree with this, I would rather have a completely new character. But I was saying, if it had to be Tullece, I'd rather he get reimagined and reintroduced in the context of a new storyline rather than them literally pull him out of the Z Movie continuity, as you were implying.

[WittyUsername]

Tullece would be redundant after Goku Black.

[pepd]

I have not interest in him, and even less after Goten, Badack, and Zamasu, but I agree on the approach. A redesign could also work, give him enough similarities, but with relevant differences -Maybe hair like first chapters's Gokuu.

About bringing the existing characters, it shouldn't and it wont be connected to the main story, simply because they are someone else's works, not Toriyama's; and there is no point in introduce them to DB the franchise stories, because they already exist in them (unless that for some reason they want to reboot them in some other side story)

[JewyB]

If i "canonised" Tullece, my route would be: Make him turn up on Earth, similarly, with a group of rag tag mercenaries, on a mission to "plant a tree" or whatever, unrelated, but, i would have Tullece be a half saiyan, as opposed to a full saiyan.

You make him so that he clearly looks like Goku, with hints Bardock may have been his father in a classical "rape, murder, pillage and rape" way, but never explicitly stated, the other members of his steam being the same, and blah blah that's why they're all so strong.

Somewhat unrelated, in my "fanfic" version, it works like that, with the Tre Of Might linking to the kai tree, and the fruit granting god ki. Tullece takes a bite and gets his purple-ish form, but doesnt get FULL god powers because he doesn't eat the fruit. A piece gets picked up by a mysterious entity(shin) and then later in the BoG arc they use the fruit instead of a group circle. But that's just expanding on how i would have done it, not helpful here.

[Grimlock]

If they're trying to adapt an older character, it makes sense to change and remix some things while keeping the basic foundations that worked,

I question if their intention was really to "adapt". Like I said, Toriyama's Broly isn't that much different from his alternate dimension counterpart. If it's to keep his mindless personality throughout the fight while barely speaking in other situations, then they could've easily done the same with Toei's Broly. No point in "creating another character" without providing enough (and good) reasons for this character to exist.

His most recognisable qualities are that he's a ridiculously gifted Saiyan with an abusive father -- that basic outline is retained, but Toriyama took it in a different, interesting direction.

May you provide examples of this "interesting direction"?

IBut I was saying, if it had to be Tullece, I'd rather he get reimagined and reintroduced in the context of a new storyline rather than them literally pull him out of the Z Movie continuity, as you were implying.

Can you think of reasons that justify the existence of this "reimagined" Turles? Would he be drastically different than his counterpart or with a minor depart from the original?

[LoganForkHands73]

If they're trying to adapt an older character, it makes sense to change and remix some things while keeping the basic foundations that worked,

I question if their intention was really to "adapt". Like I said, Toriyama's Broly isn't that much different from his alternate dimension counterpart. If it's to keep his mindless personality throughout the fight while barely speaking in other situations, then they could've easily done the same with Toei's Broly. No point in "creating another character" without providing enough (and good) reasons for this character to exist.

His most recognisable qualities are that he's a ridiculously gifted Saiyan with an abusive father -- that basic outline is retained, but Toriyama took it in a different, interesting direction.

May you provide examples of this "interesting direction"?

Well, Toriyama was convinced by his editor to revamp(a) Broly, but I'll talk about the changes that I think worked. In the Super movie, they emphasise Broly's role as a foil to Kakarot -- he goes through a similar struggle, being spirited away to a backwater planet as a baby. However, whereas Kakarot was sent off for altruistic purposes by his parents and was never expected to be found due to his weakness, Broly was a prodigal son who, through no fault of his own, overstepped the rigid class system of Planet Vegeta and was punished for it. Whereas Bardock personally sent Kakarot away, Broly was sent away without Paragus's consent, leading Paragus to follow him. On Vampa, Broly, like Goku, becomes an uneducated wild child. Whereas Goku was taken in by a loving father figure in Son Gohan Snr and made lifelong friends throughout his childhood, Broly was trapped under the thrall of Paragus and had no one but the monstrous dog creatures for company, stunting his development. Cheelai introduces Broly to the wider world in the same way Bulma did for Goku, but imagine that cute scenario happening to a 40+ year old Goku and you basically get the walking tragedy that is Broly.

And yet, there's no contrived childhood encounter between Goku and Broly. They have these narrative connections without having any hamfisted personal grudge against each other. The most memetic beef against the original Toei Broly was the whole "he got mad about baby Kakarot crying in the crib next to him" thing. While I think people are sometimes uncharitable in mocking that, I think it is fair to say it's super contrived that Broly has this connection to Goku. Paragus having a grudge against Vegeta was one thing, but his Legendary Super Saiyan son just happens to also have a lifelong grudge against a random low-ranker who just happens to have also survived? It's a hard one to swallow and ironically wounds Goku's character by making him seem more special than he is.

Turning Broly into a more sympathetic character was a great move. The original Broly was entertaining for being a total psychopath but the fact that this version has an aversion to fighting and only does so because he's pressured by his father's expectations (plus his Oozaru Wrath State making him lose control) make it easy to root for his redemption. Everyone mocks the fact that he screams a lot and has no dialogue against Goku and Vegeta, but he doesn't need to. The film emphasises that it's not his fight, it's Paragus's, and Broly's being used as a blunt instrument. He has no personal beef against these guys and doesn't particularly want to hurt them. His facial expressions tell everything we need to know about the conflict he feels about fulfilling his father's wishes. That's great stuff in my book.

While he plays it down, Toriyama is just a damn good storyteller. He condensed the elements about Broly that worked and shuffled around the details to create a much better narrative. Yeah, he could've just changed Broly and Paragus's names and presented them as totally new characters which would've been fine but I think that keeping their names was Toriyama's way of paying tribute to the original versions that heavily inspired his adapted versions (plus it was great for marketing, lol).

IBut I was saying, if it had to be Tullece, I'd rather he get reimagined and reintroduced in the context of a new storyline rather than them literally pull him out of the Z Movie continuity, as you were implying.

Can you think of reasons that justify the existence of this "reimagined" Turles? Would he be drastically different than his counterpart or with a minor depart from the original?

Glad you asked, I slept on it and imagined how I would do it.

We're introduced to a crying spiky-haired Saiyan child laying in a crib. We immediately think it must be Goku, but it's not -- it's Bardock. We pan out to see another identical baby in a crib a few doors down. That's Tullece. Both of them are scanned by some Saiyan scientists and Tullece draws the short straw. Because of his weak power level, Tullece is sent out to a backwater planet as an Infiltration Baby with a mission to exterminate the population. Sound familiar?

Tullece's pod touches down on a dry, arid planet. His early life is much like Goku's. He messes around in the wilderness and makes friends. Unlike Goku though, he never forgets his pre-programmed mission. The native population are quite powerful, so Tullece keeps around one specimen, the ambitious prince Daiz, to train against and make himself stronger. However, Tullece grows genuinely attached to Daiz and procrastinates his mission until a couple of Saiyan pods touch down one evening. Two Saiyans emerge, one of them being a teenaged Bardock (the other being some fodder brute). Like Raditz, Bardock chastises his brother and asks him why the hell he hasn't cleared out the population. Tullece explains what his plan is, and while he's uncomfortable with it, he joins them in an Oozaru rampage across the planet.

Daiz, shocked at his friend's betrayal, forms a last stand against Tullece and gives him the fight of his life. However, the Saiyan brute ambushes Daiz from behind and tells Tullece to stop screwing around. As the brute aims to kill Daiz, Tullece shoots the brute in the back and blasts Bardock away. He tells Daiz to take his hand, and they both take off to space. Bardock survives the blast of course, and informs high command that his estranged brother has committed treason against the Freeza Empire. The twin brothers go their separate ways and never meet again.

So Tullece becomes a powerful space pirate and gradually accumulates a large supporting cast of his own from planets he has conquered. He discovers the Tree of Might, which in this version bears fruit that gives the consumer great power at the cost of slowly destroying their body. Tullece gradually becomes haggard and grey-skinned from abusing the Tree of Might's fruits. His Crusher Corps get away with their planet-busting activities by pretending to be part of the Freeza Force, though no one they meet lives long enough to verify their claims. After Freeza's death, they laid low for decades, but with his resurrection, they return in full force.

We eventually come to the present day. Rather than a generic "Goku and Vegeta training at Capsule Corp/Beerus's place" intro, we see Goku training with Broly on Vampa. The Crusher Corps, hoping to recruit more powerful warriors for an eventual war against Freeza, send out spies and discover that two gifted Saiyans are on a nearby backwater planet. They touch down and plant a new Tree of Might on Vampa. Tullece is old as fuck at this point, his body and mind withered by the Tree, and while the fruits give him formidable strength, he can't match Goku's god forms or Broly's untamed power and his mooks can only do so much against them. Tullece eats one fruit, then two, then five. No amount of citrus can do any good. His body has become too frail to handle the power.

This is where we get another little subversion. Daiz sees that Tullece doesn't stand a chance. But whereas Tullece was once a somewhat honourable warrior who loved a challenge, the man he sees before him is a mad shell of his former self. So Daiz kills Tullece and eats ALL the fruits, giving him a spectacular boost at the cost of shortening his lifespan. Daiz basically takes Tullece's place as the final boss. Either Goku and Broly kill him or they decide to spare him. Whichever works.

So yeah, phew. Put way too much thought into that for a character I don't particularly care about. That's about it, see ya.

[Yasai9001]

While I'm far from gagging for a Tullece reappearance in any shape, this would be a cool way to reimagine him and explain his physical similarity to Bardock/Goku. I may be in the minority here, but if they absolutely had to bring the name 'Tullece' back into the main Toriyama continuities somehow, I'd much, much rather they reimagine him à la Broly rather than rip him wholehog out of the Toei movie universe or whatever. I can't think of anything less appealing than some villain ripping open a green space bunghole and Tullece of all jobbers popping out with a menacing pomegranate in hand. I really don't believe any serious non-Heroes storyline would use that trope anyway unless they're REALLY out of ideas, Toriyama's opinion that the Z Movies and filler take place in an alternate dimension almost certainly doesn't mean he has any intention to directly indulge in Toei's continuity whatsoever. That's just his way of politely handwaving them away without fully dismissing them.

One aspect of Tullece that should be retained is that he's a spacefaring foil to Goku, complete with his own set of Z-Warriors. I'd like to see that aspect of his backstory expanded somehow. How he met all his colourful henchmen and gained their loyalty. I like the detail that he has Goku's round, relaxed eyes, unlike Goku Black who has characteristically sharp "meanie eyes". Like with Super Broly, we could perhaps see a slightly more honourable side to Tullece. The one question is, how would they convincingly make him a worthy rival to Goku and Vegeta, especially in light of Broly's ridiculous power acceleration being a unique gift? The Tree of Might I guess, but it wasn't exactly convincing seeing Tullece evenly duel SSGSS Goku in the latest Heroes arc with nothing but the power of Fu's Fresh Fruits. They didn't even give him Super Saiyan, surprisingly.

I like what you said.

I understand why people don't believe Turles or any other movie villain should be introduced, truly I do. There are so many other opportunities in the world of Dragon Ball that can be latched on to and loved by fans and profited off by the creator and his assocites.

With that said, the thing with Turles being Goku's foil would be perfect. The one thing I'd love to touch on is his personality. Goku is a free-spirited guy who has love and compassion for others, and he has an extreme pleasure in fighting opponents to win and to be stronger.

I would imagine Turles being free-spirited like Goku - a pretty chill guy, but he doesn't really care for nobody. Every other Saiyan we've seen is pretty damn uptight, so a perfect foil for Goku would fit into a carefree person who's just as battle hungry and wishes to fight stronger opponents so that he can strive to be the best, albeit he just goes about it in a way that any other savage Saiyan would.

This hypothetical foil to Goku would be evil like most Saiyans, but ALSO LIKE Goku, he would be extremely different than most Saiyans of the past because of his desire to want to fight stronger opponents so that he himself can be the best. We see that other Saiyans of the past just preferred to bully and dominate weaker opponents, which really didn't do much for them. The moment that Nappa wasn't able to fight anymore, Vegeta removed himself of him. When Raditz was killed, they brushed it off and called him weak. It's easy to note that Saiyans really didn't have the want to become the strongest like Goku did, but they just took a lot of pride in themselves.

The perfect foil to Goku would be someone who does whatever the hell he wants (like Goku does), and that's something people tend to find attractive, so he, like Goku, would also build up his own group of loyal friends/soldiers. If they were to die though, Goku's foil wouldn't give a damn - as it's just an opportunity for him to fight someone worthwhile.

Turles was the closest we've probably ever gotten to an evil Goku, but that's not even imagined by Toriyama.

Goku Black and Ginyu are just people who are in Goku's bodies. Bardock just looks like Goku. There really isn't an "Evil Goku" personafied with some depth that could serve as an actual foil

At this point, the ship has sailed, but it's just food for thought. The Evil Goku I imagine would be just as much as a joy to be around unless you're on the opposing side. The guy just wants a good fight to be stronger and he'll kill you if you lose, and that's pretty much it. He'd be much different than the Saiyans of old who just want to overpower weaker opponents and boost their fragile egos.

I'd also change Turles wanting to rule the universe; what would that serve to a guy who just wishes to be physically stronger and finding worthy opponents to fight against so that he could be the self-proclaimed best? Not a damn thing. That'd be another way he'd be different because his thirst for power would only be physical, not also political.

[Grimlock]

Well, Toriyama was convinced by his editor to revamp(a) Broly, but I'll talk about the changes that I think worked. In the Super movie, they emphasise Broly's role as a foil to Kakarot -- he goes through a similar struggle, being spirited away to a backwater planet as a baby. However, whereas Kakarot was sent off for altruistic purposes by his parents and was never expected to be found due to his weakness, Broly was a prodigal son who, through no fault of his own, overstepped the rigid class system of Planet Vegeta and was punished for it. Whereas Bardock personally sent Kakarot away, Broly was sent away without Paragus's consent, leading Paragus to follow him. On Vampa, Broly, like Goku, becomes an uneducated wild child. Whereas Goku was taken in by a loving father figure in Son Gohan Snr and made lifelong friends throughout his childhood, Broly was trapped under the thrall of Paragus and had no one but the monstrous dog creatures for company, stunting his development. Cheelai introduces Broly to the wider world in the same way Bulma did for Goku, but imagine that cute scenario happening to a 40+ year old Goku and you basically get the walking tragedy that is Broly.

This is all well and good, but backstories hardly play any effect on present lives. So in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. Why would I analyze their similarities and differences about things that happened years ago that won't serve anything for what they are today? Unfortunately, Dragon Ball isn't like that. I say what I say about Broly based on the present, because I know what happened before, the past won't mean anything. And as far as the present is concerned, there's really no excuse for this character to exist, regardless of his past, he still acts like another Broly, that's what matters.

Then again, that can change now that seemingly Toyotaro has an opportunity to cause a big impact on Goku's character if he actually makes him atone for his father's sins. But that remains to be seen if he will actually do it (and execute it in a good way).

Everyone mocks the fact that he screams a lot and has no dialogue against Goku and Vegeta, but he doesn't need to. The film emphasises that it's not his fight, it's Paragus's, and Broly's being used as a blunt instrument.

You'd be right, but there's a point in the movie that Goku tries to reason with Broly. At that point things should have taken another path. That had to mean something, that had to cause something on Broly, not becoming words tossed to the wind completely, like it happened.

So yeah, phew. Put way too much thought into that for a character I don't particularly care about. That's about it, see ya.

Some good stuff with lots of questionable decisions.

You fleshed out his backstory, nice and good. But does Turles really need to be identical to Bardock/his alternate dimension counterpart? Do we and the franchise even need yet another character with the same hairstyle? And above all else, will his backstory actually mean something in the present?

Cool that you provided an explanation for his grey skin, but after his progression in becoming "a powerful space pirate" and "discovers the Tree of Might", that's where the point... starts to get ...less. So he willl become a Turles that we have seen before? But okay, you will have the balls to kill him in the end. That actually kind of make things more bearable, because we won't have to put up with a unnecessary copycat alive and walking around.


I'd be lying though if I said I didn't want your story to be adapted into an official thing. But only because I would get to see more of Bardock (kid and teenager). And because, for good or worse, the thing about reimagined characters is the possibility of them interacting with their alternate dimension counterparts. Which can make for a great dialogues and situations, which I'm all for.

[Yuli Ban]

Not gonna lie, I would totally tolerate Tullece's canonization if it came with a few certain things:

1: As mentioned, he's clearly of Bardock's age, if not older. Either the God Fruit restores youth and that's why he looks only as old as Son Goku or have him actually aged up (this wasn't as much of a problem when he actually appeared in the movie timeline since Nappa also lacked any signs of aging at the time) so we get something like a wizened Evil Goku. Like Geezer Goku but megalomaniacal.

Age regression can still play a role, of course.

2: Give him something to do with the Makaioshin and the Demon Realm. He's already toyed with this in Heroes and Xenoverse, but I mean officially.

A piece I commissioned from Salvamakoto
See, in any situation, he's going to be compared to Goku Black, so why not play off of that on top of introducing an entirely new realm for us to play with?
Whereas Goku Black was a god taking a mortal's body, seeing only the value of the divine and immortal, Tullece would be a mortal who outright disrespects the gods' will and seeks instead seeks to become immortal through things like the Fruit of the God Tree.
Have Tullece be a trainee of the Makaioshin, showing that demonic ki can counteract godly ki with enough skill, and then give us a proper Demon Realm arc.

It's not the greatest, but it could work.

[LoganForkHands73]

This is all well and good, but backstories hardly play any effect on present lives. So in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. Why would I analyze their similarities and differences about things that happened years ago that won't serve anything for what they are today? Unfortunately, Dragon Ball isn't like that. I say what I say about Broly based on the present, because I know what happened before, the past won't mean anything. And as far as the present is concerned, there's really no excuse for this character to exist, regardless of his past, he still acts like another Broly, that's what matters.

Then again, that can change now that seemingly Toyotaro has an opportunity to cause a big impact on Goku's character if he actually makes him atone for his father's sins. But that remains to be seen if he will actually do it (and execute it in a good way).

You'd be right, but there's a point in the movie that Goku tries to reason with Broly. At that point things should have taken another path. That had to mean something, that had to cause something on Broly, not becoming words tossed to the wind completely, like it happened.

Some good stuff with lots of questionable decisions.

You fleshed out his backstory, nice and good. But does Turles really need to be identical to Bardock/his alternate dimension counterpart? Do we and the franchise even need yet another character with the same hairstyle? And above all else, will his backstory actually mean something in the present?

Cool that you provided an explanation for his grey skin, but after his progression in becoming "a powerful space pirate" and "discovers the Tree of Might", that's where the point... starts to get ...less. So he willl become a Turles that we have seen before? But okay, you will have the balls to kill him in the end. That actually kind of make things more bearable, because we won't have to put up with a unnecessary copycat alive and walking around.


I'd be lying though if I said I didn't want your story to be adapted into an official thing. But only because I would get to see more of Bardock (kid and teenager). And because, for good or worse, the thing about reimagined characters is the possibility of them interacting with their alternate dimension counterparts. Which can make for a great dialogues and situations, which I'm all for.

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I was trying to incorporate OP's idea about the Bardock relationship in some way, his reasoning does make some sense to me because no other Saiyans are shown to look like Bardock/Goku. Honestly, I totally agree that Tullece being another Goku doppelganger in a sea of them has always made me ambivalent to his character. Trying to sell that connection in this story may be a hard sell, I'll admit. I guess they could just redesign him to not look like Bardock and remove that connection entirely, which would probably be better and easier. Though it depends on how far one can really stretch Tullece's core concept before he's unrecognisable and they might as well make a new character from scratch, as you say.

I do think Super Broly's backstory works because it's not really presented as such, it's more of a complete story in its own right as he is in many ways the protagonist of that movie. Broly's new origin informs his actions in the "present" era of the story. I can't see Toei Broly having the same internal conflict about following his father's orders when he murdered him without a second's hesitation. Goku's words did get through to Broly, it's just his loyalty to Paragus was too strong at that moment and he lashed out. Maybe we should've heard a bit more from Broly later in the film I guess, but that's neither here nor there for me since they establish he's an introverted kinda chap, not the kinda guy to delve into an Oprah monologue about his painful feelings to strangers.

Overall, my main concern is that the original Tullece's story started and ended in Movie 3. Same pretty much goes for the original Broly, though he was lucky to have two-and-a-half. If they lifted him straight out of that continuity, I just can't help but feel that would be really clumsy and awkward. They'd have to explain how he survived, how/why travelled to a different universe, they'd need to give him some massive power boost (he was only Saiyan arc level after all) and so on.

I'm really glad you enjoyed parts of my brainstorm though.

Also, IIRC, Toyotaro has toyed with the idea in his Drew It sketches that Tullece was one of the surviving Saiyans in his own headcanon, alongside Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Tarble, Broly, Paragus and Onio. So maybe his return in some form is a possibility.

[Yasai9001]

Also, IIRC, Toyotaro has toyed with the idea in his Drew It sketches that Tullece was one of the surviving Saiyans in his own headcanon, alongside Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Tarble, Broly, Paragus and Onio. So maybe his return in some form is a possibility.

It's in one of those monthly drawings Toyotaro did where he shows Onio and his wife having survived the destruction of Planet Vegeta. It makes me think if he would actually incorporate movie characters into the Dragon Ball main storyline if Toriyama gave him the okay. Not only that, but in one of his other monthly drawings, he shows how Toma and the others of Bardock's crew are ambushed by Dodoria. I believe it could fit in (not only because they were in the DBS Broly Movie), but also because of how we see that in Granolah's survivor Arc, Saiyans and members of the Freeza Force fought together on missions to conquer a planet, so perhaps Dodoria backstabbed them when Freeza decided to destroy Planet Vegeta.