Grimlock wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:15 am
LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:19 pmIf they're trying to adapt an older character, it makes sense to change and remix some things while keeping the basic foundations that worked,
I question if their intention was really to "adapt". Like I said, Toriyama's Broly isn't that much different from his alternate dimension counterpart. If it's to keep his mindless personality throughout the fight while barely speaking in other situations, then they could've easily done the same with Toei's Broly. No point in "creating another character" without providing enough (and good) reasons for this character to exist.
LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:19 pmHis most recognisable qualities are that he's a ridiculously gifted Saiyan with an abusive father -- that basic outline is retained, but Toriyama took it in a different, interesting direction.
May you provide examples of this "interesting direction"?
Well, Toriyama was convinced by his editor to revamp(a) Broly, but I'll talk about the changes that I think worked. In the Super movie, they emphasise Broly's role as a foil to Kakarot -- he goes through a similar struggle, being spirited away to a backwater planet as a baby. However, whereas Kakarot was sent off for altruistic purposes by his parents and was never expected to be found due to his weakness, Broly was a prodigal son who, through no fault of his own, overstepped the rigid class system of Planet Vegeta and was punished for it. Whereas Bardock personally sent Kakarot away, Broly was sent away without Paragus's consent, leading Paragus to follow him. On Vampa, Broly, like Goku, becomes an uneducated wild child. Whereas Goku was taken in by a loving father figure in Son Gohan Snr and made lifelong friends throughout his childhood, Broly was trapped under the thrall of Paragus and had no one but the monstrous dog creatures for company, stunting his development. Cheelai introduces Broly to the wider world in the same way Bulma did for Goku, but imagine that cute scenario happening to a 40+ year old Goku and you basically get the walking tragedy that is Broly.
And yet, there's no contrived childhood encounter between Goku and Broly. They have these narrative connections without having any hamfisted personal grudge against each other. The most memetic beef against the original Toei Broly was the whole "he got mad about baby Kakarot crying in the crib next to him" thing. While I think people are sometimes uncharitable in mocking that, I think it is fair to say it's super contrived that Broly has this connection to Goku. Paragus having a grudge against Vegeta was one thing, but his Legendary Super Saiyan son just
happens to also have a lifelong grudge against a random low-ranker who just
happens to have also survived? It's a hard one to swallow and ironically wounds Goku's character by making him seem more special than he is.
Turning Broly into a more sympathetic character was a great move. The original Broly was entertaining for being a total psychopath but the fact that this version has an aversion to fighting and only does so because he's pressured by his father's expectations (plus his Oozaru Wrath State making him lose control) make it easy to root for his redemption. Everyone mocks the fact that he screams a lot and has no dialogue against Goku and Vegeta, but he doesn't need to. The film emphasises that it's not
his fight, it's Paragus's, and Broly's being used as a blunt instrument. He has no personal beef against these guys and doesn't particularly want to hurt them. His facial expressions tell everything we need to know about the conflict he feels about fulfilling his father's wishes. That's great stuff in my book.
While he plays it down, Toriyama is just a damn good storyteller. He condensed the elements about Broly that worked and shuffled around the details to create a much better narrative. Yeah, he could've just changed Broly and Paragus's names and presented them as totally new characters which would've been fine but I think that keeping their names was Toriyama's way of paying tribute to the original versions that heavily inspired his adapted versions (plus it was great for marketing, lol).
LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:19 pmIBut I was saying, if it had to be Tullece, I'd rather he get reimagined and reintroduced in the context of a new storyline rather than them literally pull him out of the Z Movie continuity, as you were implying.
Can you think of reasons that justify the existence of this "reimagined" Turles? Would he be drastically different than his counterpart or with a minor depart from the original?
Glad you asked, I slept on it and imagined how I would do it.
We're introduced to a crying spiky-haired Saiyan child laying in a crib. We immediately think it must be Goku, but it's not -- it's Bardock. We pan out to see another identical baby in a crib a few doors down. That's Tullece. Both of them are scanned by some Saiyan scientists and Tullece draws the short straw. Because of his weak power level, Tullece is sent out to a backwater planet as an Infiltration Baby with a mission to exterminate the population. Sound familiar?
Tullece's pod touches down on a dry, arid planet. His early life is much like Goku's. He messes around in the wilderness and makes friends. Unlike Goku though, he never forgets his pre-programmed mission. The native population are quite powerful, so Tullece keeps around one specimen, the ambitious prince Daiz, to train against and make himself stronger. However, Tullece grows genuinely attached to Daiz and procrastinates his mission until a couple of Saiyan pods touch down one evening. Two Saiyans emerge, one of them being a teenaged Bardock (the other being some fodder brute). Like Raditz, Bardock chastises his brother and asks him why the hell he hasn't cleared out the population. Tullece explains what his plan is, and while he's uncomfortable with it, he joins them in an Oozaru rampage across the planet.
Daiz, shocked at his friend's betrayal, forms a last stand against Tullece and gives him the fight of his life. However, the Saiyan brute ambushes Daiz from behind and tells Tullece to stop screwing around. As the brute aims to kill Daiz, Tullece shoots the brute in the back and blasts Bardock away. He tells Daiz to take his hand, and they both take off to space. Bardock survives the blast of course, and informs high command that his estranged brother has committed treason against the Freeza Empire. The twin brothers go their separate ways and never meet again.
So Tullece becomes a powerful space pirate and gradually accumulates a large supporting cast of his own from planets he has conquered. He discovers the Tree of Might, which in this version bears fruit that gives the consumer great power at the cost of slowly destroying their body. Tullece gradually becomes haggard and grey-skinned from abusing the Tree of Might's fruits. His Crusher Corps get away with their planet-busting activities by pretending to be part of the Freeza Force, though no one they meet lives long enough to verify their claims. After Freeza's death, they laid low for decades, but with his resurrection, they return in full force.
We eventually come to the present day. Rather than a generic "Goku and Vegeta training at Capsule Corp/Beerus's place" intro, we see Goku training with Broly on Vampa. The Crusher Corps, hoping to recruit more powerful warriors for an eventual war against Freeza, send out spies and discover that two gifted Saiyans are on a nearby backwater planet. They touch down and plant a new Tree of Might on Vampa. Tullece is old as fuck at this point, his body and mind withered by the Tree, and while the fruits give him formidable strength, he can't match Goku's god forms or Broly's untamed power and his mooks can only do so much against them. Tullece eats one fruit, then two, then five. No amount of citrus can do any good. His body has become too frail to handle the power.
This is where we get another little subversion. Daiz sees that Tullece doesn't stand a chance. But whereas Tullece was once a somewhat honourable warrior who loved a challenge, the man he sees before him is a mad shell of his former self. So Daiz kills Tullece and eats ALL the fruits, giving him a spectacular boost at the cost of shortening his lifespan. Daiz basically takes Tullece's place as the final boss. Either Goku and Broly kill him or they decide to spare him. Whichever works.
So yeah, phew. Put way too much thought into that for a character I don't particularly care about. That's about it, see ya.