Would Buu have been able to absorb Super's enemies?

[SupremeKai25]

Okay let me ask you something then, if Majin Buu completely counters and could easily absorb Zamasu, why was he never brought up when looking for means to defeat Zamasu? There is an exact scene where the team are wondering how they are going to defeat the Immortal Zamasu, and the only solution put forward is the Mafuba technique. No one ever brought up Majin Buu, despite knowing full well that Buu can absorb people, so he could have absorbed the Immortal Zamasu.

Maybe it's because Zamasu might counter that technique after all, since he's in a completely different level of power and can instantly teleport just with a single thought

Every technique has a counter, it is foolish to think that Buu is somehow invincible.

And this entire thread is assuming that a fight would last that long, if Zamasu were to fight Buu he would literally speed-blitz him ala Vegeta vs. Frost.

Nobody has made the argument that Boo could defeat any of the fighters mentioned in a traditional fight. The question was whether or not he could absorb them, and I can imagine multiple scenarios where said characters could conceivably be absorbed. The only characters I can't imagine being absorbed (angels and Zeno notwithstanding because of their borderline omnipotence), as I said, are Beerus, because the story has made it abundantly clear that he's almost flawless as a fighter and wields the almighty strength of plot armor, and Jiren because he never lets down his guard. Moro has been surprised by Boo's techniques before, Broly is mindless, and Zamasu has gotten cocky and let down his guard more times than I can count even against weaker opponents such as Goku, Vegeta and Trunks (despite his instant teleportation which you insist on). Nobody said Boo himself is invincible, only that his absorption technique seems to have no counter once you're wrapped in it besides knowing beforehand that he's going to use it and prepare yourself adequately. As such, characters like Zamasu who get caught off guard very frequently, could very easily get caught in it and be unable to counter.

Okay, then tell me why no one proposed Buu as a counter to Zamasu. They proposed Buu to fight in the U6 Tournament and again in the Tournament of Power, yet they never considered him when looking for counters to Zamasu's immortality. What does this tell you?

[Yuji]

Okay, then tell me why no one proposed Buu as a counter to Zamasu. They proposed Buu to fight in the U6 Tournament and again in the Tournament of Power, yet they never considered him when looking for counters to Zamasu's immortality. What does this tell you?

It tells me that Toriyama and whoever else responsible for the series have no interest in using Boo as a character, as shown by his exclusion from the aforementioned arcs.

From an in-universe perspective, it tells me what I already told you: Boo would straight up lose in a traditional 1v1 fight assuming Zamasu went all out (well, Fused Zamasu, Goku Black or anime!Zamasu, manga!Zamasu would lose very easily). Assuming they could form a plan where Goku and Vegeta could distract Zamasu and get Boo to catch him off-guard, they'd still have to rely on a variety of variables such as Zamasu not picking up on their plan and Boo not screwing it up somehow either by being distracted, falling asleep, etc. It is easier and more practical to learn a technique and have Goku deal with it by himself than rely on an outside agent who could get vaporized in an instant if their plan is uncovered. Plus, in all likelihood, they didn't think of Boo because he's not a part of the core group of friends and had been out of the action for a long time. Also poking holes in the story for not using Boo is a foolish endeavor. Why doesn't Boo use the RoSaT to train and make use of his massive potential? Why doesn't he try to recover the God Ki the Grand Supreme Kai lost? Why doesn't he absorb anyone so he's strong and intelligent enough to face any upcoming threat? All a bunch of what-ifs the story isn't interested in exploring because of what I said in the first paragraph of this post.

But again, this doesn't mean that there isn't a scenario where Boo couldn't absorb Zamasu. Theoretically, Zamasu could be caught off-guard and absorbed. It is easy to imagine such a scenario because he lets his guard down often since he is arrogant about his immortality. It is harder or near impossible to imagine a scenario where Beerus, Whis or Jiren would be caught off-guard.

[Koitsukai]

Or maybe the cast isn't as practical as we'd like them to be?

Like Yuji said, the THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY game is like opening a can of worms.

Really, how dumb they might act isn't an indication of anything outside of their carelessness. Besides the problem to solve was Black's strength, which Buu wouldn't have solved.

[Jack Bz]

Or maybe the cast isn't as practical as we'd like them to be?

Like Yuji said, the THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY game is like opening a can of worms.

Really, how dumb they might act isn't an indication of anything outside of their carelessness. Besides the problem to solve was Black's strength, which Buu wouldn't have solved.

Exactly.

Why didn't they try using mafuba against boo? Why didn't they have elder kai unlock everyone's potential in the rosat before the ToP? Why didn't they put boo in the rosat to wake him up quicker in the ToP/Moro arcs? Why didn't they have boo absorb ssj god Goku/Vegeta/Gohan/Gotenks to have a better chance against Beerus? Why do the characters repeatedly start off in weaker forms to warm up instead of killing from the get go and ending the arc early? The characters have shown their idiocy by thinking bringing along Tien and Krillin would be a better idea than Goten and Trunks/Gotenks to a fight where the universe might end if they lose.

Some times things in Dragon Ball just don't happen because that isn't the way Toriyama/Toyo wanted the plot to go.

[SupremeKai25]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

[Koitsukai]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

The bolded part isn't even true, he literally was involved in a gag in each arc, just one gag per arc, lol. It took five years for him to actually get something to do in an arc and it was mostly to re-introduce another character.

If a clay jar could trap Zamasu (that's why they had to forget the lid), then of course a magical creature like Buu could do the same.

[SupremeKai25]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

The bolded part isn't even true, he literally was involved in a gag in each arc, just one gag per arc, lol. It took five years for him to actually get something to do in an arc and it was mostly to re-introduce another character.

If a clay jar could trap Zamasu (that's why they had to forget the lid), then of course a magical creature like Buu could do the same.

Him being a comic relief character is meaningless because he was indeed involved and mentioned, which never happened in the Future Trunks arc, despite allegedly being an amazing counter to immortality.

The Mafuba technique could trap Zamasu only because he had no knowledge of it. It's shown in the ToP arc with Frost that the Mafuba technique can actually be deflected and redirected at the caster. Meaning that if Zamasu had intel on it he wouldn't have been trapped so easily.

[Koitsukai]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

The bolded part isn't even true, he literally was involved in a gag in each arc, just one gag per arc, lol. It took five years for him to actually get something to do in an arc and it was mostly to re-introduce another character.

If a clay jar could trap Zamasu (that's why they had to forget the lid), then of course a magical creature like Buu could do the same.

Him being a comic relief character is meaningless because he was indeed involved and mentioned, which never happened in the Future Trunks arc, despite allegedly being an amazing counter to immortality.

The Mafuba technique could trap Zamasu only because he had no knowledge of it. It's shown in the ToP arc with Frost that the Mafuba technique can actually be deflected and redirected at the caster. Meaning that if Zamasu had intel on it he wouldn't have been trapped so easily.

Actually, it's very important, you can't take a gag character seriously for the resolution of an arc in this hypothetical case. You want a in-universe reason: he fell asleep for RoF, he is not reliable or was asleep again. There.

There's no room for Toei's interpretation when it comes to Toriyama's techniques, so that point is invalid.

[SupremeKai25]

The bolded part isn't even true, he literally was involved in a gag in each arc, just one gag per arc, lol. It took five years for him to actually get something to do in an arc and it was mostly to re-introduce another character.

If a clay jar could trap Zamasu (that's why they had to forget the lid), then of course a magical creature like Buu could do the same.

Him being a comic relief character is meaningless because he was indeed involved and mentioned, which never happened in the Future Trunks arc, despite allegedly being an amazing counter to immortality.

The Mafuba technique could trap Zamasu only because he had no knowledge of it. It's shown in the ToP arc with Frost that the Mafuba technique can actually be deflected and redirected at the caster. Meaning that if Zamasu had intel on it he wouldn't have been trapped so easily.

Actually, it's very important, you can't take a gag character seriously for the resolution of an arc in this hypothetical case. You want a in-universe reason: he fell asleep for RoF, he is not reliable or was asleep again. There.

Except that Buu was indeed proposed as a serious pick for both tournaments, as in for the happy resolution of both arcs. He's not like Yamcha who was treated as a joke and was downright forgotten.

Your in-universe reasons are as fair as mine: that he wasn't considered because the protagonists believed his technique likely wouldn't have worked against Zamasu.

There's no room for Toei's interpretation when it comes to Toriyama's techniques, so that point is invalid.

What you said makes no sense, it still happened.

[Jack Bz]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

What's the in universe reason that they didn't fast forward boo's sleep by putting him in the rosat? Do you assume it wouldn't work because no one suggested it?

[Koitsukai]

Him being a comic relief character is meaningless because he was indeed involved and mentioned, which never happened in the Future Trunks arc, despite allegedly being an amazing counter to immortality.

The Mafuba technique could trap Zamasu only because he had no knowledge of it. It's shown in the ToP arc with Frost that the Mafuba technique can actually be deflected and redirected at the caster. Meaning that if Zamasu had intel on it he wouldn't have been trapped so easily.

Actually, it's very important, you can't take a gag character seriously for the resolution of an arc in this hypothetical case. You want a in-universe reason: he fell asleep for RoF, he is not reliable or was asleep again. There.

Except that Buu was indeed proposed as a serious pick for both tournaments, as in for the happy resolution of both arcs. He's not like Yamcha who was treated as a joke and was downright forgotten.

Your in-universe reasons are as fair as mine: that he wasn't considered because the protagonists believed his technique likely wouldn't have worked against Zamasu.

There's no room for Toei's interpretation when it comes to Toriyama's techniques, so that point is invalid.

What you said makes no sense, it still happened.

He is just a joke now, he is only there NOT to participate, to tease. He wasn't even mentioned, they forgot about Buu. Truth is DBS isn't written by Brian DePalma, it forgets things, it has plotholes, it drops characters, it misses chances, if you go the what-if route you'll open Pandora's box. He wasn't even considered for that arc, it's out-of-universe reasons preventing his presence, not in-universe reasons preventing it.

And no, if it isn't written by Toriyama, then it can be very well discarded in the future, therefore it cannot be taken seriously. See Hakaishin Mode... unless it's Vegeta's new ability, then no longer that take on hakai is valid. For the anime, sure, but not for an hypothetical discussion on how that technique actually works, because you are basing it on what some 30-something writer from Toei came up with, and not the actual creator.

[SupremeKai25]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

What's the in universe reason that they didn't fast forward boo's sleep by putting him in the rosat? Do you assume it wouldn't work because no one suggested it?

The matter is simple. You claim that Buu would be able to easily absorb Zamasu. The team knew Buu's absorption capabilities. Yet, when they were desperately looking for counters to the immortality that Zamasu possessed, no one suggested Buu.

And no, if it isn't written by Toriyama, then it can be very well discarded in the future, therefore it cannot be taken seriously. See Hakaishin Mode... unless it's Vegeta's new ability, then no longer that take on hakai is valid. For the anime, sure, but not for an hypothetical discussion on how that technique actually works, because you are basing it on what some 30-something writer from Toei came up with, and not the actual creator.

This is a moot point to make. The anime is approved by Toriyama, it doesn't matter if he didn't write that particular moment, it's still canon. When discussing anime continuity, it happened.

Obviously if OP specified "manga only feats" I wouldn't bring that up, but he didn't, and in the anime ToP arc it was indeed shown that the victim of the Mafuba can deflect the attack back at the user, provided that they are prepared for it. Which Zamasu wasn't.

He is just a joke now, he is only there NOT to participate, to tease.

I'm not saying that Buu should have participated in that arc, or should have succeeded in absorbing Zamasu. I am pointing out a simple fact: they were looking for counters to immortality, they knew all about Buu, they just asked Buu to participate in a tournament for the fate of the planet... and yet no one mentioned him when looking for a counter to Zamasu. Make your own conclusions from this simple fact.

[Koitsukai]

This is a moot point to make. The anime is approved by Toriyama, it doesn't matter if he didn't write that particular moment, it's still canon. When discussing anime continuity, it happened.

Obviously if OP specified "manga only feats" I wouldn't bring that up, but he didn't, and in the anime ToP arc it was indeed shown that the victim of the Mafuba can deflect the attack back at the user, provided that they are prepared for it. Which Zamasu wasn't.


I'm not saying that Buu should have participated in that arc, or should have succeeded in absorbing Zamasu. I am pointing out a simple fact: they were looking for counters to immortality, they knew all about Buu, they just asked Buu to participate in a tournament for the fate of the planet... and yet no one mentioned him when looking for a counter to Zamasu. Make your own conclusions from this simple fact.

It really isn't. Whatever Toei goes wild with, doesn't count when we discuss how techniques work and that's what is being discussed here, how does mafuba work? well let's drop everything Toriyama didn't write because... well that technique was his creation, he makes the rules, not some kid working for Toei. I can't believe I have to explain this.

And once again, absence of evidence is NOT evidence. Buu not being mentioned can be explained easily: the cast sucks at making the best out of things, didn't you know that by now?

[Jack Bz]

The matter is simple. You claim that Buu would be able to easily absorb Zamasu. The team knew Buu's absorption capabilities. Yet, when they were desperately looking for counters to the immortality that Zamasu possessed, no one suggested Buu.

You directly ignored my question because it highlights the flaws in this logic. Again: Why didn't they put buu in the rosat to wake him up quicker in the ToP/Moro arcs? Why didn't they even discuss using mafuba against buu (or any other antagonist)? Why didn't they have elder kai unlock everyone's potential in the rosat before the ToP? Does them not doing this definitively prove that none of these things would have worked? Yes or no? Because if it doesn't prove that, then you can't just use that same logic in this same situation and say "the matter is simple".

Just for fun, I came up with a pretty good reason why they wouldn't bring buu along and why they wouldn't want him absorbing Zamasu:

Absorbing kaioshins has proven volatile for Buu in the past. When he absorbed dai kaioshin, his whole personality completely changed to the point where he was essentially a different person. He became gentler after absorbing a god who was so purely good. Therefore, it could have been a risk for Buu, who seperated all the evil in his heart, to absorb a kaioshin like Zamasu with so much hatred in his heart for mortals. It could result in a more evil and conflicted majin buu; essentially the other side of what happened when buu absorbed dai kaioshin, and cause more problems than Zamasu alone would cause, who is pretty weak. Maybe it's a risk they weren't willing to take. Maybe Goku and Vegeta considered this in their heads, and decided it wasn't worth it.

Do I think that's why they didn't bring buu along? It's about as likely a reason as his absorption not working, or because buu is asleep. What I actually think is that Goku and Vegeta were only thinking of what they themselves could do to beat Zamasu and Black, because Toriyama just didn't want to incorporate buu into the story.

[SupremeKai25]

This is a moot point to make. The anime is approved by Toriyama, it doesn't matter if he didn't write that particular moment, it's still canon. When discussing anime continuity, it happened.

Obviously if OP specified "manga only feats" I wouldn't bring that up, but he didn't, and in the anime ToP arc it was indeed shown that the victim of the Mafuba can deflect the attack back at the user, provided that they are prepared for it. Which Zamasu wasn't.


I'm not saying that Buu should have participated in that arc, or should have succeeded in absorbing Zamasu. I am pointing out a simple fact: they were looking for counters to immortality, they knew all about Buu, they just asked Buu to participate in a tournament for the fate of the planet... and yet no one mentioned him when looking for a counter to Zamasu. Make your own conclusions from this simple fact.

It really isn't. Whatever Toei goes wild with, doesn't count when we discuss how techniques work and that's what is being discussed here, how does mafuba work? well let's drop everything Toriyama didn't write because... well that technique was his creation, he makes the rules, not some kid working for Toei. I can't believe I have to explain this.

I don't know why you are going on this weird tangent but basically No, I never agreed that we would ignore feats that the anime studio came up with. If that's a general rule you made up and apply in discussions, very well, but don't speak for me please. I never even heard of that "rule" before.

And once again, absence of evidence is NOT evidence.

Where is your evidence that Buu's absorption technique works on people who are on a completely different level of power (unlike Gohan and Vegito who were still in the general tier)

The matter is simple. You claim that Buu would be able to easily absorb Zamasu. The team knew Buu's absorption capabilities. Yet, when they were desperately looking for counters to the immortality that Zamasu possessed, no one suggested Buu.

You directly ignored my question because it highlights the flaws in this logic. Again: Why didn't they put buu in the rosat to wake him up quicker in the ToP/Moro arcs?

Simple, because all these questions you are posing are a strawman. Essentially you are not trying to counter or confute my argument, you're just giving other examples similar to my argument, but that in itself is not a confutation.

Absorbing kaioshins has proven volatile for Buu in the past. When he absorbed dai kaioshin, his whole personality completely changed to the point where he was essentially a different person. He became gentler after absorbing a god who was so purely good. Therefore, it could have been a risk for Buu, who seperated all the evil in his heart, to absorb a kaioshin like Zamasu with so much hatred in his heart for mortals. It could result in a more evil and conflicted majin buu; essentially the other side of what happened when buu absorbed dai kaioshin, and cause more problems than Zamasu alone would cause, who is pretty weak. Maybe it's a risk they weren't willing to take. Maybe Goku and Vegeta considered this in their heads, and decided it wasn't worth it.

This is a good argument and is not fallacious, you should have just said this instead of posing me those questions that only diverged from the point.

Fair enough, regardless we also know that Zamasu was aware of Buu and his strength, so it's also fair to assume that Zamasu wouldn't underestimate him and would be prepared for his absorption techniques. That's another fair assumption to make, don't you think? If someone knows that Buu is very strong, far more powerful than most mortals, then they would probably be aware of the fact that he can also steal other people's power by absorbing them.

It is true that Zamasu tends to lower his guard due to his immortality and perfect regeneration capabilities, but the instance of the Mafuba can easily be excused by saying that Zamasu had no intel whatsoever on the technique. He even asked Trunks what kind of technique that was.

Zamasu clearly held Majin Buu to a high standard, and couldn't believe that mere mortals could defeat him. So it's safe to say that if Zamasu were to face Majin Buu, he wouldn't lower his guard.

[Jack Bz]

Simple, because all these questions you are posing are a strawman. Essentially you are not trying to counter or confute my argument, you're just giving other examples similar to my argument, but that in itself is not a confutation.

I was more arguing against the notion of "if an idea isn't brought up as a possible solution, that means it wouldn't have worked" more than I was arguing against "absorption wouldn't work against Zamasu". I was applying the logic to other context to show that it doesn't work in similar situations. I don't see how that's straw manning.

I do not feel particularly strongly about if Zamasu would succumb to absorption or not, what I don't like is all the new assumptions we would have to make about other parts of the story if we assume that them not bringing buu along is proof that buu's absorption wouldn't have worked.

[Peach]

So no one could actually explain why in-universe they never considered Buu, how disappointing. All people could say is the old and generic "writers didn't care", even though in both the previous and following arc they involved Buu in some way. So it is false to say that the writers didn't care about Buu, they did care. They simply decided he wasn't even worth mentioning against Immortal Zamasu.

Because he's weak as shit and can't do anything against DBS tiered villains.

Buu didn't start training until right before the Tournament of Power. So he was still around the level he was at after Kid Buu's defeat for most of Super.


The question isn't if Buu could beat these characters in a fight. It's if he has the ability to absorb the Super villains. If he's able to overpower them or catch them off guard, absolutely. I think Fit Buu could definitely overpower Zamasu and absorb him while he's regenerating, as well as defeating/overpowering Base Black.

[theherodjl]

I really don't see a lot of evidence as to how Zamasu would defend himself from being absorbed. I mean, Boo has not only absorbed fighters stronger than himself but also divine beings as well. Kibitoshin made a big deal out of Pure Boo finding a way to absorb the South Kaioshin so its implied that such a divine being should've not only outwitted the simplistic monster, he should've destroyed him too. However, it didn't work that way because Boo was likely underestimated.
Let's be real: Zamasu hasn't really shown us that he is a hyper-intelligent fighter. He might be a decent tactician in getting his plans to fruition...but it helps that the Gods of the multiverse are particularly lazy and even a bit stupid as well. Zamasu relies on his immortality a little too much in ultimately maneuvering around opponents, kind of like how Goku inevitably wins through deduction except without the need to worry about being permanently injured.

[Krillin1994]

I agree that black is astronomically stronger, and in the cases we've seen Buu's absorption work it's been on people with a narrower gap in strength, so I am doubtful it would work on Black. As such even less likely it would work on GoDs/Zeno

Zamasu on the other hand before fusing is a prodiggy amongst kais, but still around SS2 Tier. I would say that Buu is stronger than him then.

With the idea that Zamasu could just avoid it with Kai Kai.

Have we seen Kai Kai confirmed used? Obviously black had that scene where he does the forehead finger like IT. But he was still only in training under Gowasu so maybe not 100% he learned that technique (as trying to think of any scene where Zamasu himself uses it, can only recall it being black using it). Also with Kai Kai, it doesn't require a ki signature but you still need to presumably visualise the place where you want to go, the shock of being engulfed in a very split second moment might rattle you to not think I'll use kai kai and then think of the place as you're potentially suffocating/being crushed.

The idea of hearing Buu being strong and shocked someone would take them down just doesn't equate knowing everything about them. Frieza was warned not to mess with Buu. I feel its more a matter of reputation.

If Zamasu was so attentive he would've spotted buu when watching U6 v U7 tournament and been confused why they were so nonchalant having him there. Or at the very least be like why did that monster look like Dai Kaioshin then realise it was that buu who could absorb people. Especially since that was after he had heard Buu had been beaten. It should've been fresh on his mind. So I'm not sure he knew how he looked.

I would also not use the notion of Buu not being thought of as an option to mean that he couldn't absorb someone. Could've just been known to be sleeping and currently unwakeable. Mr Satan could have drilled in the idea that absorbing is wrong so he swore off using it. Or most likely the risk of absorbing and getting a massive personality change, or just the unnecessary risk that if he did absorb and it went wrong, a villain having the dominant personality and then basically having immense strength and the hax of buu.

Also I think just absorbing away your enemies goes against Goku's principles of beating people by self improvement, even with the Mafuba it's something he himself went away and learned and trained to use. Might as well ask why they didn't use the time machine to grab super dragonballs and wish Zamasu mortal again.


Can't wait for the fandom if they bring Fused Zamasu back and double retcon when it turns out Vegito hadn't run out of time yet and it was indeed Buu's body that split them when they got absorbed, thus undoing fused zamasu.

[Krillin1994]

I know I shouldn't double post but this bit is very different to all the Zamasu discussion.

There is a person that I'm sure Buu would've been able to absorb and potentially become way more hax.

I am talking about him taking the leader of the Trio de Dangers and becoming Buugamo.

With Bergamo's ability to power up the more punishment he takes and buu's regen he would just become stronger and stronger and stronger. Once he's done that give him a sparring session with Goku and he's a top tier threat once again.

I think the issue with Bergamo losing mobility due to getting larger and larger wouldn't really be an issue with the stretchy nature of buu. He could likely just negate that growth due to his weird jelly body.

The cosmos is just lucky that Goku restrained his battle boner and didn't fight first in the Zen Exhibition.