That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

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That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by Bridgeman » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:49 pm

During the androids saga... When Vegeta is losing against #18, the rest rushes in... Trunks and Piccolo get knocked down, Vegeta seemingly unable to do much to help them, but when #17 takes Tien in a headlock, he immediately rushes upwards to try and get him out. And this isn't a case of "Vegeta was pissed and attacking the enemy closest to him", because the enemy closest to him was #18, not #17. On the contrary, he ignored #18, who was standing right next to him and clearly in an easy position to disable him, to rush towards #17, who he also wasn't fighting in the first place.

Normally the anime makes shit like this up, but this happens in the manga too. Immediately when #17 grabs Tien, Vegeta rushes towards him...

Personally I've always found this confusing, as Tien seemed to be the one who held Vegeta in the lowest regard, openly voicing his disgust towards him during Frieza's attack on Earth. I thought Vegeta and Tien kinda hated each other.

Why do you think they did this? Is it just Vegeta trying to return the favor because they rushed in to help him, even tho he told them to stay put?

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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:54 pm

You have a clip or manga scan of the scene?
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by theherodjl » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:30 pm

https://youtu.be/PdV1p9M0XEY

I never really thought about that either. It's odd that Vegeta would target 17 when he's clearly still pissed about 18 breaking his arm...and she's standing mere feet from him while 17 is in the air above.
Weird.
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by Lionel » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:36 pm

It's in the original manga too...

Image

Yeah, it's not just Vegeta seemingly going out of his way to disentangle Tenshinhan from a dire situation, he's even verbally calling out the man's actions and denouncing him for their folly. Why would Vegeta care about this upstart earthling's suicidal tendencies? It's not like Tenshinhan ever showed him anything but resentment and suspicion. Vegeta couldn't even be bothered to rescue the woman whom he was intimate with and who conceived his child just a dozen or so chapters prior.

I can't imagine Vegeta having been flattered enough over Tenshinhan going along with Piccolo in their suicide charge after Trunks to throw himself out there to save the man. It's a peculiar action for the Saiyan Prince to take. Is it a Gohan esque moment where Vegeta saves him from Freeza's Death Beam because of some instinctual camaraderie for sharing a fox hole against the same threat? Vegeta by the Cell arc is a one man army in his mind who feels like he's on top of the world after having achieved the legendary Super Saiyan form; he literally denounced fighting alongside Trunks, Piccolo, and the humans a chapter or two ago.

I don't want to say it's a plot hole but it feels out of place when looking back over previous actions and statements. I'd expect this reaction from Vegeta in the Freeza battle, not high on the hog Cell arc Vegeta.

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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by BWri » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 am

Lionel wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:36 pm It's in the original manga too...

Image

Yeah, it's not just Vegeta seemingly going out of his way to disentangle Tenshinhan from a dire situation, he's even verbally calling out the man's actions and denouncing him for their folly. Why would Vegeta care about this upstart earthling's suicidal tendencies? It's not like Tenshinhan ever showed him anything but resentment and suspicion. Vegeta couldn't even be bothered to rescue the woman whom he was intimate with and who conceived his child just a dozen or so chapters prior.

I can't imagine Vegeta having been flattered enough over Tenshinhan going along with Piccolo in their suicide charge after Trunks to throw himself out there to save the man. It's a peculiar action for the Saiyan Prince to take. Is it a Gohan esque moment where Vegeta saves him from Freeza's Death Beam because of some instinctual camaraderie for sharing a fox hole against the same threat? Vegeta by the Cell arc is a one man army in his mind who feels like he's on top of the world after having achieved the legendary Super Saiyan form; he literally denounced fighting alongside Trunks, Piccolo, and the humans a chapter or two ago.

I don't want to say it's a plot hole but it feels out of place when looking back over previous actions and statements. I'd expect this reaction from Vegeta in the Freeza battle, not high on the hog Cell arc Vegeta.
Comparing it to how he saved Gohan on Namek is perfect. I don't think its even close to being a plot hole, I think its just Vegeta thinking strategically. Even though Vegeta often comes across as brash and egotistical, his maneuvering on Namek has shown us that he has a great mind for tactics. He knows when to use people to his benefit even when you'd think he wouldn't need them. His partnerships with Raditz and Nappa clue us in on this. But we see it again on Namek. He wasn't above teaming with Gohan and Krillin when when his survival was on the line.

With Tien, I just think Vegeta considered how they died in the future and he wanted to avoid that. As weak as Tien was in comparison to the strongest warriors there, he was still a useful fighter. With Vegeta not being able to sense Androids, it was useful to have another pair of eyes. And as we saw later, Tien was indeed strong enough to at least hold down a fighter on the level of Semi-Perfect Cell who was several times stronger than the androids.

Since things devolved into an all out fight, it makes sense that an injured Vegeta would try to preserve as many allies as he could including Tien.
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by nhienphan2808 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:20 am

BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 am
Lionel wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:36 pm It's in the original manga too...

Image

Yeah, it's not just Vegeta seemingly going out of his way to disentangle Tenshinhan from a dire situation, he's even verbally calling out the man's actions and denouncing him for their folly. Why would Vegeta care about this upstart earthling's suicidal tendencies? It's not like Tenshinhan ever showed him anything but resentment and suspicion. Vegeta couldn't even be bothered to rescue the woman whom he was intimate with and who conceived his child just a dozen or so chapters prior.

I can't imagine Vegeta having been flattered enough over Tenshinhan going along with Piccolo in their suicide charge after Trunks to throw himself out there to save the man. It's a peculiar action for the Saiyan Prince to take. Is it a Gohan esque moment where Vegeta saves him from Freeza's Death Beam because of some instinctual camaraderie for sharing a fox hole against the same threat? Vegeta by the Cell arc is a one man army in his mind who feels like he's on top of the world after having achieved the legendary Super Saiyan form; he literally denounced fighting alongside Trunks, Piccolo, and the humans a chapter or two ago.

I don't want to say it's a plot hole but it feels out of place when looking back over previous actions and statements. I'd expect this reaction from Vegeta in the Freeza battle, not high on the hog Cell arc Vegeta.
Comparing it to how he saved Gohan on Namek is perfect. I don't think its even close to being a plot hole, I think its just Vegeta thinking strategically. Even though Vegeta often comes across as brash and egotistical, his maneuvering on Namek has shown us that he has a great mind for tactics. He knows when to use people to his benefit even when you'd think he wouldn't need them. His partnerships with Raditz and Nappa clue us in on this. But we see it again on Namek. He wasn't above teaming with Gohan and Krillin when when his survival was on the line.

With Tien, I just think Vegeta considered how they died in the future and he wanted to avoid that. As weak as Tien was in comparison to the strongest warriors there, he was still a useful fighter. With Vegeta not being able to sense Androids, it was useful to have another pair of eyes. And as we saw later, Tien was indeed strong enough to at least hold down a fighter on the level of Semi-Perfect Cell who was several times stronger than the androids.

Since things devolved into an all out fight, it makes sense that an injured Vegeta would try to preserve as many allies as he could including Tien.
This. Vegeta knows how to think like a leader when there's a threat. He is stupid in Cell Saga because he thinks he could solo in the most powerful state yet, but he knows when he needs assistant and could ultiize people's power well. Goku is better as a solo fighter but falls short in actually using people (only thought of how to use Gohan lol)
ShadowWolf87 wrote:Freeza beat Goku, beat Vegeta, and destroyed the Earth. Even if no one else knows it, who does? Goku.
Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
Who has to live with that similar to how he wanted to make Freeza live with the fact he'd been beaten by what he considered trash, and have to live with that shame? Goku.
Freeza got the perfect revenge.

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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:21 am

BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 amWith Vegeta not being able to sense Androids, it was useful to have another pair of eyes.
Pair? You mean trio. :mrgreen:
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by TobyS » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:14 am

Yeah he wants to fight alone but he was losing and although he'd never say it out loud the others saved him or at least prolonged his life by jumping in.

It's a team fight and it makes sense to save your teammates, hell as soon as 17 chokes out or breaks Tens neck he's gonna be onto him next anyway so it's even self interest.

Also we know he kinda respects kuririn. Respects piccolo in the trunks saga and he even said he respects chaozu in the Saiyan saga. He'd never say it out loud but he probably respects the whole dragon team as warriors at this point.

Bulma isn't a fighter and he doesn't love her yet so that's different.
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He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by BWri » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:02 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:21 am
BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 amWith Vegeta not being able to sense Androids, it was useful to have another pair of eyes.
Pair? You mean trio. :mrgreen:
Gotta tip my hat for that :lol:
TobyS wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:14 am Also we know he kinda respects kuririn. Respects piccolo in the trunks saga and he even said he respects chaozu in the Saiyan saga. He'd never say it out loud but he probably respects the whole dragon team as warriors at this point.
I definitely think there is a lot of understated respect that he has for the characters you listed even during the Cell arc, despite them being much weaker than himself. Their fighting spirit and dedication to training are things that probably impress him in comparison to the warriors of Frieza's army.
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by TobyS » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:07 am

BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:02 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:21 am
BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 amWith Vegeta not being able to sense Androids, it was useful to have another pair of eyes.
Pair? You mean trio. :mrgreen:
Gotta tip my hat for that :lol:
TobyS wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:14 am Also we know he kinda respects kuririn. Respects piccolo in the trunks saga and he even said he respects chaozu in the Saiyan saga. He'd never say it out loud but he probably respects the whole dragon team as warriors at this point.
I definitely think there is a lot of understated respect that he has for the characters you listed even during the Cell arc, despite them being much weaker than himself. Their fighting spirit and dedication to training are things that probably impress him in comparison to the warriors of Frieza's army.
That's a really good point about them Vs the Freeza force as a work ethic not just an overall power level thing.

It's a good point he can see how much the humans improved between Trunks and the Androids even if they are far below him he can see the gains.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by Yosheets » Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:04 pm

This would make more sense if they had the roles of TFS Vegeta and TFS Tenshinhan. LOL.

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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:00 pm

BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:02 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:21 am
BWri wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 amWith Vegeta not being able to sense Androids, it was useful to have another pair of eyes.
Pair? You mean trio. :mrgreen:
Gotta tip my hat for that :lol:
TobyS wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:14 am Also we know he kinda respects kuririn. Respects piccolo in the trunks saga and he even said he respects chaozu in the Saiyan saga. He'd never say it out loud but he probably respects the whole dragon team as warriors at this point.
I definitely think there is a lot of understated respect that he has for the characters you listed even during the Cell arc, despite them being much weaker than himself. Their fighting spirit and dedication to training are things that probably impress him in comparison to the warriors of Frieza's army.
Saiyans respect strength. Vegeta may try to laud his own power over the earth crew, but he repects their power. He knows how Goku and Piccolo defeated Raditz. How the crew defeated the siebamen, and almost took out Nappa. How well they did against him and what they accomplished on Namek. These are feats that should not have happened in his eyes. But they surprised him. That's why I love the dinamic between Vegeta and both Trunks. Once he came to grip with being F.Trunks' father, his turning point was being proud of someone else. His son, the strong Super Saiyan. This allowed him to be a better father to the younger Trunks. Then his surpise when that one turned SS.


My initail impression was Vegta say an opening while 17 had his hands full with Tien.
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Re: That time Vegeta oddly tried to save Tien Shinhan

Post by BWri » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:47 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:00 pm My initail impression was Vegta say an opening while 17 had his hands full with Tien.
That's a good call! That may have been his intention.
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