How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by Shintoki » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:28 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:13 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:22 am Also, fix Black's asspull of a power up. Saiyans don't work that way, they don't just get hit and suddenly their power increases so much, kaios or kaioshin don't work that way either, so what gives? just have Zamasu heal him every now and then, like in the manga.
It can be explained away super easily.

Black is recovering the untapped power of that body. Don't you find odd that he doesn't get stronger in episode 63? He needs to apply rage in order to get stronger in episode 64 because he was already at that's body limit by then.

Think of it as what happened to Ginyu in the anime Namek arc.
about that part, i don't think rage boosts is something saiyans can tap to consciously, it's more of a thing that happens when they spike emotionally in reaction to something.

but yeah, the anime dropped the ball really hard on that one. tho ig it makes sense when one considers that toei's staff don't get all the details right on time, sorta like how they skipped over how hit's time skip ability works. :think:
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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:39 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:23 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:13 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:22 am Also, fix Black's asspull of a power up. Saiyans don't work that way, they don't just get hit and suddenly their power increases so much, kaios or kaioshin don't work that way either, so what gives? just have Zamasu heal him every now and then, like in the manga.
It can be explained away super easily.

Black is recovering the untapped power of that body. Don't you find odd that he doesn't get stronger in episode 63? He needs to apply rage in order to get stronger in episode 64 because he was already at that's body limit by then.

Think of it as what happened to Ginyu in the anime Namek arc.
What untapped power? Namek arc Goku had a lot of it, sure... DBS Goku's body shouldn't. Actually, the manga says so. The worst of it, it's never explained.
Black never accessed Goku's full power until episode 61.

Black at that moment finally got the full power that future Goku had when he stole his body so it never got stronger again by being damaged.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by BWri » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:46 pm

Trouser wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:12 am The manga version is great. Only thing I'd fix is the ending: Trunks stays so he can find a way to revive his timeline (I'd get rid ot that stupid "two Trunks and two Mai's" thing). This and later he can fight in Tournament of Power to repay everyone for help in fighting Goku Black.
^^This is a priority.

After fixing that, I'd center the story around Trunks, giving him more focus. For that, I'd mix manga and anime events. Trunks is built up like a hero, like Gohan was in the Buu arc, but in the end, Trunks would get the payoff. I'd also have him train with North Kai which gives him access to the spirit bomb sword we see in the anime, but also adds another layer of connection to him and Zamasu since Zamasu was the North Kai of Universe 10.

SSJRage looks the same but would be called Super Saiyan Demi-God and would be a form exclusive to those who've awakened to god ki but aren't properly trained in its use. Trunks would gain access to this after training with Vegeta and feeling the full power of a god's blows (opens the door for Cabba later during the TOP). He and Vegeta would train for a slightly longer period than the anime.

Less time hopping, as someone above said. And there is no reason that they should have both left Trunks all alone to fight both Black and Zamasu, that may actually be the dumbest thing in the arc and kind of OOC for Goku and Vegeta. I feel they'd have to be unconscious or dragged back kicking and screaming. What would work better is if Roshi had survived in the future (is he dead?) and Goku went to retrain with him there and if Kami's lookout was still around, prompting Vegeta and Trunks to flee there to train like in the past.

Vegeta would help Trunks master his demi-god state and after a knockdown drag-out fight between Vegetto and Merged Zamasu, we get the Trunks Spirit Bomb sword scene, only there's more than just the 10 humans. We get hopeful glimpses of other humans that are in hiding around the world and Kaioshin and Trunks asks them to lend their energy and hopes to the future.

I'd get rid of the time ring nonsense and just chalk it up to a forbidden power that Zamasu studied to enact his zero-mortals plan. I'd have Zamasu disdain the gods too, for being inept and allowing the mortals to be raised so high. So basically he'd look down on anyone that isn't himself. This trait is sort of there already, but I'd emphasize it more.

I'd either take out the god-killing bullet or flesh out that concept, it's creation and those scenes with Mai way more. Since it's Dragon Ball, seems more fitting to drop it entirely.

I'd play up the role of the survivors much more, with many old faces still around to help out. Lots of folks from Dragon Ball, particularly Eighter who can't be sensed and maybe a future version of #16. And lots of those martial artists who remember what it was like being hunted down by Piccolo and his brood. They'd all contribute to the Spirit Bomb Sword.

If Zeno has to wipe out Trunks' world, I'd prefer the threat that anime Zamasu presented. Again, Zamasu is using forbidden powers to manipulate time, but who's to say it stops there. All that weird shit Goku Black was doing with space-time, also a part of Zamasu's taboo abilities, along with his expansion into the universe, a warped version of the Kaioshin's creation magic. As Zamasu infects the universe, twisting all into his image, that's when Zeno shows up to put the hurtin' on the future. Afterwards, I wouldn't have Goku time travel into a white void. Beforehand, I'd have him have an actual conversation with Zeno, explain things and promise to find a friend for him once he fixes the future. After Zeno destroys the future, he finds Goku and thus we get our two Zenos (since I can't change that).

As Trouser said, I'd have Trunks ACTIVELY attempting to bring back his universe. I'd do that for a fews arcs until finally paying it off with either Trunks realizing that he should let the dead rest or him successfully wishing his world back (probably option 2). He should have Tien's spot in the tournament of power, as much as it pains me to say that. Seeing him freakout at how cavalier his allies are treated universal erasure would be entertaining to say the least.

Those are the main things I can think of at the moment. Yeah, and future Launch should be a thing. She should be in Future Mai's resistance.
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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:02 am

  1. less back-and-forth from the Future
  2. less episodes(which is easily done with point #1)
  3. explain Black is using God Ki without transforming, which is why he's that strong in base.
  4. explanation of the Rage form, though if you cut down the back-and-forth(see #1) it is not necessary to use it at all.
  5. better explanation of Rosé(a Kaiohshin's God Ki turning Super Saiyan is pink, a Saiyan's God Ki turning Super Saiyan is Blue)
  6. Black is stronger than SS3, Rosé is stronger than Blue, Fused Zamasu could have been defeated by Goku and Vegeta in Blue if they weren't tired by fighting so they have to fuse; be explicit about it.
  7. explanation of the Spirit Sword; even something cheesy like Gowasu going "the planet itself's answer to Trunks' will to defeat Zamasu"
  8. Trunks and Mai get conscripted by Kaioshin of Time at the end instead of going to live in the new timeline

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:19 am

I'm surprised by the amount of people here who think they should have gone back and forth from the Future only twice. That Zamasu had a 2-0 lead before the final battle makes him so savage and badass, and the fact that the protagonists, even the second time, got stomped, made the situation even more desperate and grim (it meant that even learning from mistakes wasn't going to work).

Hence why Zamasu is so infinitely more memorable in the anime, whereas in the manga he only won once ("twice" if we count Infinite Zamasu) against the protagonists :think:

Ironically that part of the arc had the best pacing, the pacing started going downhill in ep. 65 and 66, where we had like 4 major fights all in the same 2 episodes. Vegito vs. Fused Zamasu could have easily been a TV special by itself.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:27 am

The Vegetto fight didn't need to be more than half an episode. One densely and well animated episode is more than enough. Episodes #65-66 just needed more staff and production time.
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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by BWri » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:20 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:19 am I'm surprised by the amount of people here who think they should have gone back and forth from the Future only twice. That Zamasu had a 2-0 lead before the final battle makes him so savage and badass, and the fact that the protagonists, even the second time, got stomped, made the situation even more desperate and grim (it meant that even learning from mistakes wasn't going to work).

Hence why Zamasu is so infinitely more memorable in the anime, whereas in the manga he only won once ("twice" if we count Infinite Zamasu) against the protagonists :think:
Doesn't make him look savage, it just makes them look like buffoons, which they admittedly are.
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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:40 pm

Mmm yeah, it makes them look like they can't finish the job. The heroes kept getting away from them, and it's not like they were letting them get away on purpose.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:43 pm

BWri wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:20 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:19 am I'm surprised by the amount of people here who think they should have gone back and forth from the Future only twice. That Zamasu had a 2-0 lead before the final battle makes him so savage and badass, and the fact that the protagonists, even the second time, got stomped, made the situation even more desperate and grim (it meant that even learning from mistakes wasn't going to work).

Hence why Zamasu is so infinitely more memorable in the anime, whereas in the manga he only won once ("twice" if we count Infinite Zamasu) against the protagonists :think:
Doesn't make him look savage, it just makes them look like buffoons, which they admittedly are.
Assuming that by "them" you mean the Saiyans :think: It's both :shrug:

And Yes, they are buffoons, but that's pretty obvious by that scene where they just rushed into battle without a plan.

After all it's Saiyans, they're all brawns and no brains.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:48 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:40 pm Mmm yeah, it makes them look like they can't finish the job. The heroes kept getting away from them, and it's not like they were letting them get away on purpose.
Well, Black doesn't want to kill them until he gets all the power ups he can out of them.

Even after surpassing Vegeta with his power up in EP64, he still wanted them both to surpass him again to grow stronger himself in return.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:56 am

ZombieVito wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:48 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:40 pm Mmm yeah, it makes them look like they can't finish the job. The heroes kept getting away from them, and it's not like they were letting them get away on purpose.
Well, Black doesn't want to kill them until he gets all the power ups he can out of them.

Even after surpassing Vegeta with his power up in EP64, he still wanted them both to surpass him again to grow stronger himself in return.
Yep, Future Zamasu mentioned this after they escaped the first time. How it's best for Black to not kill the Saiyans right away, as they can be used as foil to get stronger. It was all part of the plan. The more they stretched the fight, the stronger Black became.

That is also why Black said the second time they came, that he was happy they returned, as he could get stronger.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:23 am

ZombieVito wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:48 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:40 pm Mmm yeah, it makes them look like they can't finish the job. The heroes kept getting away from them, and it's not like they were letting them get away on purpose.
Well, Black doesn't want to kill them until he gets all the power ups he can out of them.

Even after surpassing Vegeta with his power up in EP64, he still wanted them both to surpass him again to grow stronger himself in return.
Being a silver lining to them leaving does not change the fact that they were actively trying to stop them from leaving, and failed. Twice.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:29 pm

Like in the manga, Future Zamasu should work as Goku Black's healer. That at least gives him some purpose within the plot and explains why Black is so strong. SSJB Vegeta absolutely destroys Black, until Zamasu comes and heals Black so he can do Rosé.

I'd definitely cut out that 2nd trip to the future. That was completely pointless and a stupid move from Goku and Trunks. Any important things like Trunks' new form (which shouldn't happen at all, but since you say it has to happen...) or Goku finding out what happened to Chi-Chi and Goten could've happened in the first trip after Black took out Vegeta.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to keep these awful plot points, but I guess some foreshadowing would help them make sense. Vegeta teaches Trunks some about and even tries to teach him how to use the god forms. Trunks' new form is basically a half baked version of SSJB (thus the blue aura), and albeit it's not the full form his half Saiyan potential allows him to reach Goku Black's level.

Unlike a lot of people, I'd actually keep Black pulling out a scythe and opening a rip in reality. I just love the idea of Dragon Ball characters getting so strong they can mess with reality and not even know they're doing it. I'd have the opening create a blackhole or something though because Goku and Vegeta fighting a bunch of clones was pretty boring.

The Saiyans vs Merged Zamasu should be way more one sided. Goku and Vegeta do the fusion dance and stomp Zamasu, weakening him enough for Trunks to destroy his physical body. The Genki-Dama serves to purpose whatsoever since Zeno still has to come and clean their mess, so no point in keeping that.

In the end, Trunks and Mai just have to stay in the present. I think the Zeno stuff still has to occur since Goku promising to bring Present Zeno a friend is important, so to avoid the saga from being utterly pointless Trunks has to stay in the present.
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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:29 pm

Also, I like the idea of giving a major role to the Time Ring, at least as far as the conclusion of the arc is concerned. But I don't think making it the key to Zamasu's defeat would be good writing. It would sort of be anticlimactic, even more than the canonical ending.

Since if they simply separated Black/Fused Zamasu from his Time Ring, everything Black caused would be undone. Which means that the Future Earth would be restored like nothing ever happened, the cities would be restored, Future Bulma would be restored, etc. You see where I'm going? It's as if nothing ever happened, this arc never happened, and everything is back to the point in time where Trunks defeated Dabura and Babidi, but before Black attacked.

Whereas in the canonical ending there are major consequences: the presence of 2 Zenos in one Timeline, and the presence of 2 Trunks and 2 Mais in another timeline, as well as the creation of an entirely new timeline, and the erasure of the original Future timeline.

But the Time Ring could have played a larger role. Black made it clear that the Time Ring was the only thing protecting him from changes affecting the Time-space Continuum. The writers set up this weakness of the main villain, but then never did anything with it.

I think maybe Fused Zamasu could be fully immortal, but once separated from his Time Ring, he would become destabilized, and maybe that's where his corruption could come into play (as opposed to Goku somehow, by miracle of plot BS, overpowering his attack).

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by Peach » Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:49 pm

Not reduced Vegeta to a footnote and retconned the earrings being permanent. It could have been an amazing, action packed finale.

And write Zeno out of that story completely.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:29 pm

I will never get the problem people have with the time limit of the Portara. It actually fixes a big plot hole in Z. I love it.

I really like your idea SupremeKai25, destroying the time ring should have been the reason Fused Zamasu went corrupted.

The Goku Black part of him being actively erased but surviving because of the immortal part of Future Zamasu creating the imbalance Fused Zamasu had in the anime.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:29 pm

One thing I love about Zamasu is how flagrantly he abuses so many common DB plot devices then schemes around the usual limitations they have.

"Time travel creating alternate timelines? Nah, got a Time Ring, I can pop back and forth wherever or whenever I like with no risk of paradoxes. Super Dragon Balls can only be used once per year? I'll time-skip to the future so I don't have to wait, then destroy them after I'm finished with them. Saiyan body? Abuse them zenkai boosts, motherfucker! Can't fight the Gods of Destruction mano-e-mano? Just kill every single Kaioshin to sever the life-links! Potara Fusion? I'll just fuse with my own goddamn immortal future self and never defuse, because reasons!

And when all else fails, my immortal soul will ragequit and infect the universe/spawn infinite clones of myself."

*shakes fist* ZAMASUUU!

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:34 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:29 pm One thing I love about Zamasu is how flagrantly he abuses so many common DB plot devices then schemes around the usual limitations they have.

"Time travel creating alternate timelines? Nah, got a Time Ring, I can pop back and forth wherever or whenever I like with no risk of paradoxes. Super Dragon Balls can only be used once per year? I'll time-skip to the future so I don't have to wait, then destroy them after I'm finished with them. Saiyan body? Abuse them zenkai boosts, motherfucker! Can't fight the Gods of Destruction mano-e-mano? Just kill every single Kaioshin to sever the life-links! Potara Fusion? I'll just fuse with my own goddamn immortal future self and never defuse, because reasons!

And when all else fails, my immortal soul will ragequit and infect the universe/spawn infinite clones of myself."

*shakes fist* ZAMASUUU!
Well the fusion never ended because it involved 2 Kaioshins.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:41 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:34 pm Well the fusion never ended because it involved 2 Kaioshins.
Yeah, in the anime. IIRC, Manga Zamasu isn't a full Kaioshin so he technically defuses but his two components stay glued together at a cellular level.

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Re: How would you fix anime Zamasu arc while keeping the same plotline?

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:45 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:41 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:34 pm Well the fusion never ended because it involved 2 Kaioshins.
Yeah, in the anime. IIRC, Manga Zamasu isn't a full Kaioshin so he technically defuses but his two components stay glued together at a cellular level.
Which is a contradiction since both manga Zamasu and Black use the Time Ring.

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