How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

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Seekeroftruth
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How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:26 pm

If Goku's first master was master Shen and instead of the kamehameha being his signature attack it was the Dodon Ray instead, how would it change the course of the series?

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TobyS
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Re: How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

Post by TobyS » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:46 am

So the most interesting thing is that Goku would have a propensity to become lazy and arrogant if not challenged in a healthy way and having to work hard and learn there is always someone better etc etc.

He wouldn't have got this with Shen and sadly Kuririn would not have been able to Beat Goku or at least not Ten at the second tournament.

Jackie Chun would have to try and this wouldn't work because being revealed and Roshi in disguise made him seem manipulative, and he only has a 50/50 shot at beating Ten, and after fighting Goku too he might be too tired.

They never leave the School.

However there's a lot of interesting variables.

It depends on if he landed near Shen or Tao or if they find him after GG dies, and if he takes the ball.

People assume Bulma dies to the dino but butterfly effect would mean she arrives later and in a car.

Without Tao being killed by Goku would Shen and Tao want to kill the Kame school or just hate them?

Pilaf might have better luck with Goku being elsewhere, or he might be killed, either way not summoning Piccolo.

Goku probably never has a kid and so himself just get's forcibly taken by Raditz.

What would be interesting if after years of moral decline Goku is just cool with going along with his brother. But he would probably want either Ten and Chaozu to come along or at least be loyal enough to demand that Raditz doesn't kill them as price for his compliance.

In theory things could converge back to "Normal" and we just see Dodon Rays and Kikohos where we saw kamehamehas before.

I could also see Goku and Ten still sparking each others love of fighting over assassination and leaving their masters anyway.

It'd be cool for Ten and Chaozu to remain a bigger part of the story for longer, being included where Kuririn used to be even if they fall behind in battle power.

I've often thought of a what if of an "evil goku" influencing the main cast in the same way real Goku does in canon.

I could see him corrupting Kuririn and Tenshinhan before they have their turns, Yamcha started out as a bandit. Piccolo jr might even come along as it's no longer a good versus evil, he might claim they are nearly as evil as he is and ruling the world just less destructivly is like half what he wants anyway.

It'd be cool to see an alternate universe of like saiyan pods crashing down and out steps the Dragon team, goku subconsciously remade a squad like saiyans had, he just doesn't have their weird ethno loyalty.

It'd be cool when Raditz arrived for Goku and his friends to be like "cool we're in" and the dragon team join Vegetas squad and influence them to be still evil but less dickish and more true martial artists, comedy from Vegeta not wanting a load of non saiyans around but growing to respect their skill and resolve even if they are less powerful.

I could see them killing innocent weaklings on one planet and calling Vegeta out and only wanting to do the most challenging worlds where it's conveniently the most monstrous beings. Provoke them into rebelling against Freeza
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
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Re: How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:45 pm

I think this technically belongs here viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30808&start=3460, although this is interesting enough to warrant its own topic. Especially as I've just finished re-watching the Tenshinhan arc :)

Short answer: Goku would've turned out a bad egg, of that I have little doubt. Unless Roshi were to somehow get to him the way he did to Ten. That said, I'm not sure he would've possessed the same drive to become a better martial artist without Roshi. Much like Ten, he'd assume no one else was better than him until shown otherwise. The question is, would Goku under Crane be as strong as Goku under Roshi at this point? Would he be as strong as or stronger than Ten? Considering he and Ten were pretty evenly matched during the 22nd, it's possible. It'd be interesting if Goku and Ten faced each other in the semi-finals, then went on to fight either Yamcha or Krillin in this case (since I still see Jackie Chun stepping out of the ring in this case).
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

Post by Peach » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:50 am

Can't you offer a little more context? Did Master Shen find Goku as an infant and raise him? Or did Gohan still raise him and drop him on his head still?

If Goku was still raised by Gohan, I think Goku might lose his way for a little bit. But Master Roshi, Bulma, and all his friends could turn him good at his first tournament. The same way Tien was turned good. Then things naturally start to align with canon, except with Goku's signature attack as the dodon ray.

If Goku was raised by the Crane Hermit, he would grow up to be a ruthless assassin. He would be working with Mercenary Tao and the Crane School (Tien, Chiaotzu, Shen, Yurin), helping the Red Ribbon Army collect Dragon Balls and conquer the planet. I imagine he would be a high ranking member of the army by the time Raditz shows up. Maybe even the new Commander or Supreme Leader. Raditz and Goku would get along great and the Red Ribbon Army would be absorbed into the Frieza Force.

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Re: How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:44 pm

If with Crane from the start, we get a Raditz/Turless/generic saiyan situatiion personality wise. Plus Goku in Tao position as the world greatest assassin with Tao dead by Goku. Cuz you know there's going to be friction about who is the strongest. Also. Pilaf rules earth because Bulma isn't stopping them.

If with Gohan first ... Goku runs into crane school during initial search for more dragon balls but before encountering Roshi. He learns Dodon depending on circumstances surrounding his first interact with the crane school and why the attack is used. It's first use on him almost killed him. The masters would exploit his naivete. But with Gohan's influence, Goku does have a moral compass that might conflict with the cranes' methods and ideology. Roshi might be able to pull the same thing he did with Tien at the 21st tourney when he takes Krillin there.

The only real question is if the Crane School can provide the same levels of gains and improvement as the Turtle School. I personally feel that all three master from the three schools can defeat Goku at least up til the timeline of the 22nd tourney. In fact, isn't Tien stronger than Goku a bit at this point. Will Goku still get the same lesson that Roshi taught him regarding stronger opponents once he's pretty much the strongest out there.
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Re: How would the DB universe change if Goku trained under Master Shen instead of Roshi?

Post by Ironixie » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:43 pm

I think he'd probably be conflicting with Shen a lot, probably would get oppressed by Tao Pai Pai since he'll have conflicting morals, especially since he was still raised by Grandpa Gohan, but at most I think he'll become more "Bardock-like". By the time Kami comes around, his morals would probably start to aline with his canon self after training with him. All in all, it'd probably result in a more jaded goku in the end.

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