Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:47 pm
Some examples extracted from the manga showing that Super Saiyan level characters are unable to move at light speed:
- Chapter #327 - Goku is unable to travel to the spaceship he came to Namek in time. Instead he goes to Freeza's damaged spaceship.
- Chapter #336 - Goku is unable to travel dozens of thousands of kilometers in a instant without teleportation.
- Chapter #473 - Trunks is unable to arrive at Capsule Corp and come back from it in less than a second. That results on Goku needing to buy time and to use SS3, despite knowing it will shorten the time he has to teach Fusion to Goten and Trunks.
- Chapter #482 - Piccolo is unable to reach Gotenks before he takes a nap. Piccolo not only can search his ki, but can use his broad vision to find him. He is tired after trying it.
For some reason the moon-destroying beams are always brought up in threads like this, but subtext in powerscalling should clear up any confusion. Characters much stronger and faster than Piccolo and Roshi when they blew up the moon, as referenced above, aren't able to move faster than light or even close to it. Key factor here is subtext.
To not depend on subtext, a simple remark like "Goku has become so fast that he surpassed the speed of light" suffices, but unfortunately we don't have that until Dyspo in the anime. In another hand, subtext suggests that objects known to travel faster than light, like spaceships, are slower than Jiren in the manga, so anyone that can be compared with him is probably faster than light as well.
Literally every argument here is something you already said and they all already got debunked.
- Goku didnt' even try to reach his spaceship, he merely went to Freeza's because it was right in front of him. And you still haven't posted any scans from the manga to prove your failed point.
- No one ever said nor implied that Goku couldn't reach that point with teleportation. That's just your headcanon.
- Trunks wasn't moving at top speed, this was pointed out in the show itself, a fact you keep ignoring.
- This is pure false lol, because 1 Piccolo was flying after him at top speed (didn't even take off his armor), 2 Piccolo wasn't actually fatigued afterwards, you just made that up, 3 we're never given a timeframe for how long it took for Piccolo to find Gotenks, a fact you keep ignoring.
- "In another hand, subtext suggests that objects known to travel faster than light, like spaceships, are slower than Jiren in the manga, so anyone that can be compared with him is probably faster than light as well."
And according to the Z anime and Daizenshuu, the spaceship used to reach Namek is slower than SSJ Goku and Final Form Freeza, make of that what you will.
Also, Piccolo & Roshi blowing up the moon in a few seconds is officially acknowledged in the Daizenshuu, interviews with Toriyama and a bunch of other official sources so they can't be dismissed as an outliers regardless of inconsistency.
miguelnuva1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:41 pm
NickLord wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:24 am
miguelnuva1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:53 pm
Humans can't see an object moving at light speed with the naked eye. It moves faster than our brain can get singles and at beat we would see radiation left behind from the object.
If you can see an object at lightspeed with your naked eye you are a superior human who should use your gift for good.
With the cameras in the anime it is shown Goku and Cell pop up at point A. The camera turns yo point A but they are already at point B. The camera tries to move from A to B but they are then at point C.
You realize that this actually debunks your own argument right lol? Seriously, to deny Z characters are FTL is like denying that they could blow up planets (despite seeing them do it). Also, trying to downplay using real life scientific limitations on a work of fiction that doesn't use real life science limits is ridiculous.
So they're faster than light but no one wants to zip Goku home to get his medicine and come right back?
And no it doesn't debunk anything. The camera wouldn't move because it wouldn't be able to track light speed let alone FTL.
Sonic the Hedgehog is not watching these fights.
The Camera couldn't track Goku & Cell at all, your point?