Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by MrGohanks » Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:18 pm

theherodjl wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:42 am Let's just add another can of worms to the discussion.
Image

While this may be from a DB videogame, it kinda illustrates how far the writers/artists believe that the moon is from the Earth. Instead of being 238,855 miles(384,400 kms) away, it appears to be maybe only another Earth(7,926 miles or 12,756 kms) and a half's distance away.
You can't use a video game cutscene by people not invovled with the main anime or manga as evidence for powerscaling lol, and it doesn't even give the actual distance either. Also, there's an entire interview from Toriyama himself back in the 2000sh were he talks about the moon and pointed out that its actually even further away from Earth in DB than it is in real life.

theherodjl
I Live Here
Posts: 2210
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:28 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:18 pmYou can't use a video game cutscene by people not invovled with the main anime or manga as evidence for powerscaling lol, and it doesn't even give the actual distance either. Also, there's an entire interview from Toriyama himself back in the 2000sh were he talks about the moon and pointed out that its actually even further away from Earth in DB than it is in real life.
Here is from Toei animation.
Image

Here's the actual Earth from the moon.
Image

The Earth & moon seen from Freeza's ship. Admittedly, it's difficult to tell if Toriyama even illustrated the moon but Toei certainly did.
Image

Toei also has a habit of putting moons quite a bit closer to planets. Arlia's moon is even 'sucked' into the planet when Vegeta destroys it.
Image
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
ChronoTwigger
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:45 pm
Location: PizzaLand

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:45 pm

Hello.

The terms "faster than light" came in use around '40, when the first relativistic theories vamped up. The light of speed was found as absolute and the higher possible. Einstein figured it out by holding a mirror on his face and imaging walking faster the speed of light - the photons will stay on the surface of the mirror and he cannot see himself.
That metaphore will become a way of speaching, "faster than light", than mean "so fast the eye cannot catch it".
Now, despite proofs of DB(Z) FTL stuff, in fact what the eye cannot see is way way slower than light.

I have to say so after reading a number of bad mistakes about how speed, light and "fiction" should work all along the post. If you set a "speed of light" as a noticeable limit, you imply it work as "our" light. Or it will be any volitive speed. Why not "the speed of neutrons"? Or why not "the speed of my fingers when playing Kirby"? If you assume speed as the absolute speed of light, believe me: is light as our universe, and work as our universe, or it will be no "light".

Also, faster than sound was instead a... SUPERMAN QUOTE.

Both become way of speech.

As Dyspo is told both "faster than sound and light", is just a reinforcement of the concept - he's faster than Superman and you cannot even see him.

Sometime DB(Z) do the impossible, but the "impossible" is actually the exception that confirm the rule, being "impossible".
I learned english listening to songs. So I don't know anything about. The day you had to learn play piano by just listening .mp3, you'll understand.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 4631
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:05 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:45 pm Now, despite proofs of DB(Z) FTL stuff, in fact what the eye cannot see is way way slower than light.
Before anything, you wrote a very interesting post. It was a good reading. I only would like to know an example of the proof you are talking about, if you don’t mind elaborating.

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by MrGohanks » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:09 am

theherodjl wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:28 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:18 pmYou can't use a video game cutscene by people not invovled with the main anime or manga as evidence for powerscaling lol, and it doesn't even give the actual distance either. Also, there's an entire interview from Toriyama himself back in the 2000sh were he talks about the moon and pointed out that its actually even further away from Earth in DB than it is in real life.
Here is from Toei animation.
Image

Here's the actual Earth from the moon.
Image

The Earth & moon seen from Freeza's ship. Admittedly, it's difficult to tell if Toriyama even illustrated the moon but Toei certainly did.
Image

Toei also has a habit of putting moons quite a bit closer to planets. Arlia's moon is even 'sucked' into the planet when Vegeta destroys it.
Image
Image

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2673
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:46 am

MrGohanks wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:09 am
theherodjl wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:28 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:18 pmYou can't use a video game cutscene by people not invovled with the main anime or manga as evidence for powerscaling lol, and it doesn't even give the actual distance either. Also, there's an entire interview from Toriyama himself back in the 2000sh were he talks about the moon and pointed out that its actually even further away from Earth in DB than it is in real life.
Here is from Toei animation.
Image

Here's the actual Earth from the moon.
Image

The Earth & moon seen from Freeza's ship. Admittedly, it's difficult to tell if Toriyama even illustrated the moon but Toei certainly did.
Image

Toei also has a habit of putting moons quite a bit closer to planets. Arlia's moon is even 'sucked' into the planet when Vegeta destroys it.
Image
Image
So Toriyama who admits he is bad at math doesn't know how far the moon is away from the sun.

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by MrGohanks » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:53 am

miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:46 am
MrGohanks wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:09 am
theherodjl wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:28 pm

Here is from Toei animation.
Image

Here's the actual Earth from the moon.
Image

The Earth & moon seen from Freeza's ship. Admittedly, it's difficult to tell if Toriyama even illustrated the moon but Toei certainly did.
Image

Toei also has a habit of putting moons quite a bit closer to planets. Arlia's moon is even 'sucked' into the planet when Vegeta destroys it.
Image
Image
So Toriyama who admits he is bad at math doesn't know how far the moon is away from the sun.
Toriyama just said in this interview that the Moon in DragonBall is 380000 km/l from the Earth, which is basically scientifically correct because the Moon in real life fluctuates constantly from 250000 to 500000km/l from the Earth depending on the time of year, averaging around 375000 km/l generally.

This also explains why the Moon often appears closer to the Earth in the series, because the Moon in real life is sometimes like that too depending on the season.

User avatar
Saiyan007
Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Saiyan007 » Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:00 pm

well if you didn't believe they were before,the latest Super chapter puts all doubt to rest

User avatar
The Monkey King
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:53 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by The Monkey King » Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:57 pm

Saiyan007 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:00 pm well if you didn't believe they were before,the latest Super chapter puts all doubt to rest
Yeah, that was one of the most insane speed feats in Dragon Ball History.

It's about time Gas did something impressive since he is the "Strongest in the Universe"

Lukmendes
Regular
Posts: 527
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:11 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Lukmendes » Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:57 pm

The Monkey King wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:57 pm Yeah, that was one of the most insane speed feats in Dragon Ball History.

It's about time Gas did something impressive since he is the "Strongest in the Universe"
Jiren did something similar on the manga's version of ToP, but it's a lot less noticeable, since all they say is that Jiren was far and decided to fly since it's faster than a ship, with Gas, we have a better idea of how far he is with how many times Goku needed to teleport to go back to Cereal.

So yeah, not exactly the first time something like that is done even under Toyotaro, but we have a better idea of how much "very far" can mean.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by MrGohanks » Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:14 pm

The Monkey King wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:57 pm
Saiyan007 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:00 pm well if you didn't believe they were before,the latest Super chapter puts all doubt to rest
Yeah, that was one of the most insane speed feats in Dragon Ball History.

It's about time Gas did something impressive since he is the "Strongest in the Universe"
Such a feat would mean Gas' travel speed would be sextillions of times FTL, which is crazy lol.

Though it isn't the first time something like that happened in the series. The Shockwaves from SSG Goku vs Beerus fight managed to spread throughout all of Universe 7 even in its afterlife in just a few seconds, which would be quintillion of times FTL.

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2673
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:29 am

Goku's IT hasn't nothing to do with distance. He can get to Beerus planet to Earth if a ki is high enough.

Gas said it was easier to fly then try to concentrate to IT back.

Seekeroftruth
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:27 am

if goku needs to teleport 7 times to reach back to his location on planet cereal while only needing to teleport 2 times to reach to planet namek can we infer then that the distance from goku's location (where he met whis) and planet cereal was 3.5 times the distance of Namek's distance to earth?

Image

Given that the distance between earth and namek is 49.62 light years that would mean the distance gas has to travel is 173.62 light years.

Seeing gas is estimated to travel this gap in 20 minutes means he moves at 1.44468 light years/second= 13.68 trillion KM/second =4 5650 Speed of Light.

Meaning Gas is Massively faster than light. Also by extension Goku, Vegeta and Granola who have no problem reacting to or keeping up with Gas movement.

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2673
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:46 am

Seekeroftruth wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:27 am if goku needs to teleport 7 times to reach back to his location on planet cereal while only needing to teleport 2 times to reach to planet namek can we infer then that the distance from goku's location (where he met whis) and planet cereal was 3.5 times the distance of Namek's distance to earth?

Image

Given that the distance between earth and namek is 49.62 light years that would mean the distance gas has to travel is 173.62 light years.

Seeing gas is estimated to travel this gap in 20 minutes means he moves at 1.44468 light years/second= 13.68 trillion KM/second =4 5650 Speed of Light.

Meaning Gas is Massively faster than light. Also by extension Goku, Vegeta and Granola who have no problem reacting to or keeping up with Gas movement.
The distance he can go is based on the ki being out out. He can go from Beerus planet to Earth if a ki is large enough. The multiple jumps is because he's trying to lock on to a ki.

Lukmendes
Regular
Posts: 527
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:11 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Lukmendes » Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:39 pm

Seekeroftruth wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:27 am if goku needs to teleport 7 times to reach back to his location on planet cereal while only needing to teleport 2 times to reach to planet namek can we infer then that the distance from goku's location (where he met whis) and planet cereal was 3.5 times the distance of Namek's distance to earth?
Given that the distance between earth and namek is 49.62 light years that would mean the distance gas has to travel is 173.62 light years,
The distance between Earth and New Namek is unknown, since Goku doesn't mention if it's closer or farther compared to Namek, though it has to be pretty far since he teleported twice to go there, and to go back (Though it is possible he could've gotten back to Earth by himself and decided to make a quick stop to talk to Kaio that Dende is the new Kami).
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:44 pm

Image

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by MrGohanks » Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:01 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:29 am Goku's IT hasn't nothing to do with distance. He can get to Beerus planet to Earth if a ki is high enough.

Gas said it was easier to fly then try to concentrate to IT back.
That doesn't change the fact that Gas can physically fly that distance in such a short time at all instead of teleporting, which would be impossible if he wasn't trillions of times FTL

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by MrGohanks » Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:04 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:44 pm Image
And Dsypo was shown to be way slower than Omen Goku as well.

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2673
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:10 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:01 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:29 am Goku's IT hasn't nothing to do with distance. He can get to Beerus planet to Earth if a ki is high enough.

Gas said it was easier to fly then try to concentrate to IT back.
That doesn't change the fact that Gas can physically fly that distance in such a short time at all instead of teleporting, which would be impossible if he wasn't trillions of times FTL
What is the distance between Cereal and where Goku left Gas, because trillions x FTL sounds like a number pulled out of nowhere.

Lukmendes
Regular
Posts: 527
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:11 pm

Re: Are the Saiyans Massively faster than light by the time of Super?

Post by Lukmendes » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:30 am

MrGohanks wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:04 pm And Dsypo was shown to be way slower than Omen Goku as well.
Wasn't it the opposite? I think Goku's fight with either Jiren or Kefla had the godpad managing to capture his movements, while Dyspo in lightspeed mode didn't show anything at all.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

Post Reply