Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

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Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by DanielSSJ » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:03 am

A thought popped into my brain the other day: Back when the Earthling characters were training to fight the Saiyans, did any of them try drinking Karin's Super God Water? Either to prep them for God's training or to give them an extra boost after they completed it? If nothing else, it'd help explain how they got so much stronger than Goku did in a fraction of the time. Thoughts?
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Lionel » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:07 am

Ah yes -- yet another example of the obvious road not being taken by the humans to better themselves. In this case, the Daizenshuu does explain how the recipient needs to have exceptional life and spiritual force to endure the poison's effects; that sounds like qualities inherent to a person's being and not universally merited to anyone just on the basic principle of their power being high enough. Karin himself apparently tried undergoing the test and he failed. Yajirobe also took just a slight taste and he was forced to spit it out due to its potency.

I'm not confident in Chaozu's ability to survive the trial. Krillin and Yamcha are up for debate though if someone as naturally resilient as Yajirobe couldn't handle it... Tenshinhan is the only one I would be confident in his odds of coming out alive, let alone more powerful. He's proven his resilience in turning the Kikoho into such a repeatable weapon while fuelling it with his life force. Why they didn't undertake the trial? Maybe Karin dissuaded them and they just decided to take the safer option of receiving training from Kami.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:39 pm

I never thought about it, but that would explain how they became stronger than Raditz. They got more gains than Goku after he was trained by Popo.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:51 pm

Wasn't there a mention of the crew training with Korin? Also, is the Popo/Kami training higher level than the Water?
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Saiya6Cit » Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:43 pm

Interesting topic :clap:

I would assume yes, being an old item someone must have done. Sometimes the idea to explore DB times when gohan and roshi where young it's exciting.
I'm not confident in Chaozu's
I in the other hand dont doubt he would survive it. It was a mystical being and we did not get to see enough of it.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by DanielSSJ » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:07 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:51 pmWasn't there a mention of the crew training with Korin? Also, is the Popo/Kami training higher level than the Water?
The others climbed Karin Tower and trained with him (and presumably drank the Super Holy Water) in preparation for the 23rd Tenka'ichi Budokai, but there's no mention that they ever drank the Super God Water. In regards to your second question, one is training, and the other is a magic elixir that brings out your dormant power. It's kind of apples and oranges.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by fleahop » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:14 pm

To explain their jump in power without them drinking the water:

There is a pretty consistent thread of characters seeing a more powerful for or technique and then gaining power quickly to match it. I believe something like that happened several times.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by TobyS » Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:23 pm

Yeah if they didn't drink it before the 23rd they doubtlessly would have drank it for the saiyans. And all of them even Chaozu are stronger than kid goku was when he drank it.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
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He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Peach » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:45 am

IMO, They had to have done it off screen if they trained at Kami's lookout.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Lionel » Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:58 am

The reason why I'm hesitant to state that the humans all successfully underwent the water's trial is because of its description from the Daizenshuu.

Super God Water
First Appearance: chapter 151
Category: miscellaneous
Explanation: Mystical water which if drunk draws out all of one’s hidden abilities. Goku drank it to draw out power greater than Piccolo Daimao.
Special Characteristics: It’s actually an incredible poison, and those who drink it are wracked with intense pain. By overcoming this agony, one’s abilities are drawn out, but those without outstanding spiritual power and life force will die. Prior to Goku, not a single person drank it and survived. The poison is so strong that even Karin couldn’t endure it and quickly spat it out. In Goku’s case, it took him 6 hours to overcome the poison. Also, it will have no effect on those who have drawn out all their abilities through training.

Do all of the human fighters better meet those qualifications than the likes of Karin? It doesn't sound like the qualifying trait is ki related.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:20 pm

Lionel wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:58 am The reason why I'm hesitant to state that the humans all successfully underwent the water's trial is because of its description from the Daizenshuu.

Super God Water
First Appearance: chapter 151
Category: miscellaneous
Explanation: Mystical water which if drunk draws out all of one’s hidden abilities. Goku drank it to draw out power greater than Piccolo Daimao.
Special Characteristics: It’s actually an incredible poison, and those who drink it are wracked with intense pain. By overcoming this agony, one’s abilities are drawn out, but those without outstanding spiritual power and life force will die. Prior to Goku, not a single person drank it and survived. The poison is so strong that even Karin couldn’t endure it and quickly spat it out. In Goku’s case, it took him 6 hours to overcome the poison. Also, it will have no effect on those who have drawn out all their abilities through training.

Do all of the human fighters better meet those qualifications than the likes of Karin? It doesn't sound like the qualifying trait is ki related.
Krillin still had more power to gain based off his time on Namek.
Tien continues to train constantly even into Super/GT. I would hope he still is growing.
Yamcha and Chaoutzu are the only ?s there.

Side question: Could Videl have survied it with her level of ki control training with Gohan?
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by super michael » Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:51 pm

I would like to mentioned that Goku was mostly trained by Mr Popo, Kami hardly was there for Goku training. That is why Kami didn't know Goku progress. Check chapter 180 page 5/14.

In DBZ Kami personally was there for the human training against the Z.

I wonder why Kami didn't drink the Ultra Divine Water before merging with Piccolo. I wonder why Piccolo never drunk the water himself, his potential must be huge since he has Nails and later Kami fused.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:01 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:20 pmSide question: Could Videl have survied it with her level of ki control training with Gohan?
Considering the fourteen people who drank it and died presumably all successfully climbed Karin Tower and trained with Karin, I seriously doubt that Videl would've had even a hope of surviving.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by TobyS » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:35 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:01 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:20 pmSide question: Could Videl have survied it with her level of ki control training with Gohan?
Considering the fourteen people who drank it and died presumably all successfully climbed Karin Tower and trained with Karin, I seriously doubt that Videl would've had even a hope of surviving.
Is anyone dying drinking it a claim in the manga?
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Lionel » Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:42 pm

TobyS wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:35 pm
DanielSSJ wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:01 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:20 pmSide question: Could Videl have survied it with her level of ki control training with Gohan?
Considering the fourteen people who drank it and died presumably all successfully climbed Karin Tower and trained with Karin, I seriously doubt that Videl would've had even a hope of surviving.
Is anyone dying drinking it a claim in the manga?
This is it:

Image

The idea of the Choshinsui's tried and failed test exists in the manga -- apparently not even Karin could endure it and he's classified as a deity, if only a lower ranking planetary one.

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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:23 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:01 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:20 pmSide question: Could Videl have survied it with her level of ki control training with Gohan?
Considering the fourteen people who drank it and died presumably all successfully climbed Karin Tower and trained with Karin, I seriously doubt that Videl would've had even a hope of surviving.
So, the question becomes, could Videl have climbed the tower after he training with Gohan.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:05 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:23 pmSo, the question becomes, could Videl have climbed the tower after he training with Gohan.
Hmmm. I doubt it. Strength-wise, Videl doesn't seem that far beyond what you might expect from an real athlete or martial artist, and climbing Karin Tower was a pretty tall order for even Kid Goku, who was already firmly superhuman at the time. Climbing the tower would've been byond her, if you ask me.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:43 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:05 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:23 pmSo, the question becomes, could Videl have climbed the tower after he training with Gohan.
Hmmm. I doubt it. Strength-wise, Videl doesn't seem that far beyond what you might expect from an real athlete or martial artist, and climbing Karin Tower was a pretty tall order for even Kid Goku, who was already firmly superhuman at the time. Climbing the tower would've been byond her, if you ask me.
But the Yaryarobi climbed it with Goku on his back.

I'm not trying to say Videl's this high quality specimen, but when her father's the world champ and she herself probably would have won had there not been any interfernce from the Z crew and Babidi.

Looking at the other contestants from the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd tourneys, could you see Videl in the finals, minus the crew.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by DanielSSJ » Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:28 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:43 pmBut the Yaryarobi climbed it with Goku on his back.
Yajirobe was also capable of exchanging blows with 22nd Budokai Goku and killing one of Piccolo's children. He's firmly in the superhuman camp, waaaaay beyond anything Videl has ever done.
I'm not trying to say Videl's this high quality specimen, but when her father's the world champ and she herself probably would have won had there not been any interfernce from the Z crew and Babidi.

Looking at the other contestants from the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd tourneys, could you see Videl in the finals, minus the crew.
Maybe Videl could qualify for the top eight, but I don't see her going much farther than that. It's a stated fact that the Tenka'ichi Budokai took a huge hit in terms of the level of competition after the 23rd, and I think that holds true even if you ignore Goku and co. as outliers. Mr. Satan never would've become the world champ if someone like Namu or Chapa or even 23rd Budokai Chi-Chi entered the tournament. Martial artists really seem to have been built different back then.
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Re: Did the Earthlings ever drink the Super God Water?

Post by Mireya » Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:34 pm

I don't think so. In the manga we are skipped straight to then doing harsh training with Kami and Popo. We aren't shown them being re-united, so that gives more space for some interaction with Karin to have undergone. It may be possible, but since there isn't any hint and we're skipped right to their intense training, I think that's unlikely. Maybe Kami instructed them to try this first though, idk.
Lionel wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:07 am Ah yes -- yet another example of the obvious road not being taken by the humans to better themselves. In this case, the Daizenshuu does explain how the recipient needs to have exceptional life and spiritual force to endure the poison's effects; that sounds like qualities inherent to a person's being and not universally merited to anyone just on the basic principle of their power being high enough. Karin himself apparently tried undergoing the test and he failed. Yajirobe also took just a slight taste and he was forced to spit it out due to its potency.

I'm not confident in Chaozu's ability to survive the trial. Krillin and Yamcha are up for debate though if someone as naturally resilient as Yajirobe couldn't handle it... Tenshinhan is the only one I would be confident in his odds of coming out alive, let alone more powerful. He's proven his resilience in turning the Kikoho into such a repeatable weapon while fuelling it with his life force. Why they didn't undertake the trial? Maybe Karin dissuaded them and they just decided to take the safer option of receiving training from Kami.
It's worth noting that Popo and Kami's training also seemed to be very spiritually based. First thing we see is Goku honing his spirit through meditation. And when Kuririn asks Goku whether the training was harsh at the 23rd Budokai, Goku answers with a lot. So if the Earthlings advanced on the training and had the spirit needed to make progress in it, I can see them being apt for that. It's true that Yajirobe spat a droplet of the water, but he made progress, likely, since then. Goku from the 1st chapter may not have survived.

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