Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

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Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Wed May 18, 2022 7:58 am

Let's assume Goku was not a saiyan but just happened to be the best human warrior on Earth who happened to defeat King Piccolo and save the planet.

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Fast forward many years later and the saiyan warriors find out about the dragon balls and their possible location on Earth. Vegeta seeing that this is his chance to overthrow frieza takes Nappa and Raditz with him to Earth. Kami is informed of the saiyans arrival to Earth and begin training the Z-senshi. Goku is given special privilege to train with King Kai on his planet while the other members begin their training under Kami.

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The saiyans come to Eart, Raditz starts off the fight by leading an assault with his saibamen squad but is ultimately killed by the z-senshi. The rest of the story plays out as it does in the original manga.

Fast forward, Goku arrives on Namek just as the Ginyu force are about to finish off Gohan, Krillin and Vegeta. He effortlessly defeats them and eventually faces off against frieza. Goku in this hypothetical beats frieza with genki-dama with the aid of his friends and they go home. Fast forward 1year later and Frieza wanting revenge comes to earth to kill goku and all the earthlings.

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Thankfully, Trunks intervenes and stops this from happening and then informs Son Goku of the arrival of the androids who are stronger than Super Saiyan. Goku hearing this trains intensely to try and help against the androids.

Given the above hypothetical, how would Goku change as a person if he was not able to compete/keep up with the more powerful villains later in the series due to lack of SSJ transformation?
Last edited by Seekeroftruth on Wed May 18, 2022 7:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not a Saiyan?

Post by Zephyr » Wed May 18, 2022 11:56 am

I feel like he'd have started tinkering more with Kaio-Ken in order to keep up.

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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not a Saiyan?

Post by Yuli Ban » Wed May 18, 2022 5:57 pm

When he WAS a human (IRL) he still had a drive to fight strong opponents and test himself. Indeed many of his friends and rivals did too. It was only retroactive continuity that made this a Saiyan trait and thus caused the humans to shift towards a more "we don't actually like fighting strong opponents" direction. Heck, even some like Tenshinan remained this way well into Dragon Ball Z, such as when he mentioned that he wanted to test himself against the Androids and not simply kill Dr. Gero ahead of time.

What's more, Goku himself expressed genuine fear at the prospect of fighting Raditz. It wasn't something he wanted to do, just something he HAD to do. So for a moment in time, his Saiyan heritage seemed to have nothing to do with his psychology until it did.

What happened to him was character decay, Flanderizaton, trait dominance, whatever you want to call it. It was a good crutch to explain why the Hero had to be the Hero. In real life, if Goku remained just a monkey-tailed human who just happened to kinda look like a Saiyan, he'd still be the same way because he was still the hero of the story. Kung fu media tends to feature such fight hungry characters, and whenever such stories are series, they HAVE to justify why the main character keeps getting into or seeking fights. Either they bumble into them by accident and have to finish the job, it's literally their job or duty, or they are drunk on fighting and testing their physical limits.

Heck, in the off chance that Dragon Ball Z didn't turn Goku into a Saiyan and still somehow made humans into arbitrarily more pacifistic warriors, he very easily could have still been divinity or demonic as a means of explaining it too. The former could've set him up to become the God of Earth in such a situation. The latter would have fully turned Dragon Ball into Yu Yu Hakusho Jr.
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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not a Saiyan?

Post by coola » Thu May 19, 2022 3:55 pm

Yuli Ban wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:57 pm What's more, Goku himself expressed genuine fear at the prospect of fighting Raditz. It wasn't something he wanted to do, just something he HAD to do. So for a moment in time, his Saiyan heritage seemed to have nothing to do with his psychology until it did.
Not just that, when Raditz mentioned "Two other remaining Saiyans have higher power level than me"
Goku "Sheesh, i wish i haven't heard that"
Piccolo "Can't wait, huh, Son Goku?"
Goku "Not this time, I'm trembling with fear"
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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by Trouser » Thu May 19, 2022 4:19 pm

Yes, because he was enthusiastic about fighting stronger people before he was a Saiyan (till Raditz arrived).
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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by Lionel » Fri May 20, 2022 10:08 pm

Yuli Ban explained it well. The inherent drive for self-improvement and to test his abilities against others was there from the beginning. Roshi's whole philosophical approach to martial arts is enshrined with the notion of conquering one's self and improving. What the unveiling of Goku's biological profile did was codify it into his DNA which comes packaged with its own checkered implications and qualities. If he lacks the ability to access the strength and transformative tools of the Saiyans then it's quite likely that he would have pursued alternative avenues to further himself. Maybe embrace the model Gohan espoused back during the Tournament of Power of improving as a human does only in Goku's case it isn't marred by the reality of his genetic pool providing him with a leg up over others.

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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Sat May 21, 2022 6:19 am

He wouldn't be less enthusiastic, he'd be like Ten at least. And at that very least, he'd prob push his body and Kaioken to its absolute limits without SS providing an inherent safety net to the power boost. Maybe learn some more techniques or something, like from the Yardrats.

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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by fleahop » Sun May 22, 2022 9:32 pm

In the scenario provided, I'd have to say he's just as enthusiastic, if not moreso. Considering he was able to use his technique to progress past Frieza I think he'd do just fine. Why?

Because he would work doubly hard on technique without the ability to abuse the Saiyan nature. This means no time working on any of the forms and more time working on Yardrat techniques. Due to this and his time training with Piccolo (who was crazy strong at this time) I imagine his base form would potentially be much more powerful. This is even more true if we're taking into account how power works in DBS. He'd probably gain access to things like god ki and ultra instinct sign much much earlier. (Assuming his durability and capacity are roughly similar as before based on the hypothetical)

I think one thing we're forgetting though is Gohan's role. Would Goku force Gohan's hand into fighting knowing he had no magical Super Saiyan transformations he could rely on? I'd argue no. Gohan had power, not technique. Without Super Saiyan that power was nowhere near close to any form of Cell and Goku would obviously know that. It'd be interesting to see how that plays out.

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In reality though, I have to question this hypothetical as it's built on a really crazy foundation. If Goku defeated Demon King Piccolo, how? Did he take the water and survive (which is nuts for a human)? How did he break out of Pilaf's castle? Did he ever kill his Grandpa? That's one heck of a story itself. Makes you wonder.
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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed May 25, 2022 6:36 pm

Like someone else said, he'd be like Tien.

Tien knows his current limit and has continued existing by not taking on more than he can handle. And when he does, it's more of a try or die situation.

Goku lucked out. This version of his story is the one where he keeps being able to put victories out of his butt at the very last moments, and continue getting massively stronger. And not just encounter someone too far above his weight class who destroys him right away.
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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun May 29, 2022 7:14 pm

It's difficult to see how a story would go when you remove an essential element of it. As an action tale, Goku is expected to be ready for combat, and has to be able to keep up.

Either Goku becomes smart enough to confront stronger warriors, or he doesn't get bitter over it and moves on to something else. Maybe he continues his adventures across the world, and maybe the universe, and unconsciously becomes stronger that way other than direct challenges from whichever arc.


But I do not think Goku would lose his enthusiasm. He has a child's love for life, and it's part of him. As an adventurer, he believes that there's always something wonderful in the world if you're willing to go out and discover it. So I think he'd still be the same, just on another path.
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Re: Would Goku be less enthusiastic about fighting stronger people if he was not able to keep up?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:17 pm

If the story had Goku face someone he couldn't out muscle, maybe it would have went the route of out smarting. Or even developing actual techniques to get the job done defferently.
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