Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

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Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Mireya » Fri May 27, 2022 5:47 pm

The build up on Gohan's hidden powers being unlocked was big. Kuririn said he could be as strong as Vegeta (even tho he didn't really believe that, that shows he held Gohan post unlock in very high regard). Saichoro was impressed with his dormant power. Vegeta was impressed with the sudden increase, thought it was Goku and then was seen sweatting when he saw Gohan increased his power so suddenly... whereas he just noticed Kuririn increased his power, but scoffed him right away. Kuririn's power unlock was just not given the same importance.

Yet they have almost the same power, 13k vs 14k. That doesn't seem right.

Okay that their powers were still rising, but the initial power they had was the most relevant thing for their initial reactions. Kuririn even celebrated when he saw Gohan's power increasing and didn't mention it was far from his expectations. That doesn't seem right with Gohan being just slightly above himself. He should be way ahead of Kuririn, even if it was just their initial power.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by theherodjl » Fri May 27, 2022 8:05 pm

Saichoro's potential unlock technique didn't take Gohan to a much higher level for at least a few reasons.
1. Being a very elderly Namekian on the verge of dying any day and having seen more of his children slaughtered, he may not have had the vigor left to boost anyone's absolute dormant power out.
2. Gohan's potential was difficult to accurately gauge. Gohan had pulled out a variety of different percentages everytime he had become enraged, Saichoro likely only pulled out what he was able to in the moment.
3. The technique itself wasn't perfect. It wouldn't necessarily work to the same degree everytime as Saichoro never said that it was the best way to unlock potential.
4. The technique unlocked Gohan's potential but wasn't able to account for his rage boosts due to their unpredictable & inconsistent level of growth.
5. Gohan biologically required a zenkai(s) if he wanted to see a truly significant power boost.
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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Kaboom » Fri May 27, 2022 8:09 pm

That was just the immediate initial power boost. Apparently the Grand Elder's unlock had a cumulative effect over time, since by the time the fight with Freeza started Gohan had a power level of about 200,000 while Kuririn was "only" at 75,000. Much more reflective of how much dormant potential Gohan is supposed to have.
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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Mireya » Fri May 27, 2022 8:46 pm

Kaboom wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:09 pm That was just the immediate initial power boost. Apparently the Grand Elder's unlock had a cumulative effect over time, since by the time the fight with Freeza started Gohan had a power level of about 200,000 while Kuririn was "only" at 75,000. Much more reflective of how much dormant potential Gohan is supposed to have.
Yeah, but their initial, immediate power was what was relevant then, since Vegeta was right at their tails.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Koitsukai » Fri May 27, 2022 9:32 pm

I also think it has a residual effect and the full unlock is gradual, as seen when the big fight happens, with Gohan being miles ahead of Krilin.

On the immediate aspect, Krilin's growth isn't stated, we only know he is much faster than before and still not a match for pre-Chamber Geets. I think closing in on the 20k sounds fair, even if he was 5,000 when he landed on Namek, which I don't believe he was, he gets like a 4x immediate boost, and will still get more later on. Reecoom, at 40k, oneshot him, so I think at best he can be 20K, if he were stronger he would've lasted longer.

Vegeta mistakes Gohan for Goku, that would put Gohan above 20k, which is probably were Vegeta has Goku at from back on Earth. But he knows Goku must've gotten a helluva zenkai, just like he did (he went from 18k to 24-ish), so he should expect Goku to be much stronger than before. So a 30,000 Goku sounds like something Vegeta's mind might expect (24 to 30), so Gohan could very well be close to 30K. Strong as a post-zenkai Goku would be, but still not enough to beat the Ginyu Force, and below Vegeta.

The fight with Recoome also supports Gohan being closer to the guy and Krilin not so much. Gohan took a beating and held his own, while Krilin lasted one kick. I think the gap between them is well conveyed and Gohan's unlock was also impressive, he went from what? 5,000 (I think he can be after his zenkai, but perhaps not) to almost 30,000. A bigger boost than Krilin's.

I don't know where the 13k and 14k came from, but I doubt they would not explode on contact against Recoome who was 40k. Too big of a gap to not die. I think it's more like this:

Recoome 40,000
Vegeta 30,000-ish
Gohan 27,000
Krilin 19,000

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Mireya » Fri May 27, 2022 9:42 pm

Jheese reads both as "above 10,000" without specifying the amount. Daizenshuu gives both 13 and 14k.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Kaboom » Fri May 27, 2022 10:23 pm

Come to think of it, there was a gap of almost 4 days from when Kuririn got his power-up until Gohan got his. So assuming that they do have a cumulative effect over time, the 13k and 14k numbers could just show that Gohan's "immediate" unlocked power was already almost as strong as Kuririn's "4 days of growth" unlocked power.
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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Lionel » Sat May 28, 2022 3:12 pm

Good explanations and details provided by other posters. Another factor could be that Gohan was just 5 years old whereas Krillin was 26. Gohan wasn't even a grown child yet, let alone a maturing teenager. On the other hand Krillin is at that point in his life where he'd be at his physical peak. Despite that condition going in his favour Gohan was still a peer of Krillin's after having his own potential unlocked and days having elapsed before the young Saiyan hybrid received his power up.

If anything it says a lot that a highly capable human martial artist at his biological peak like Krillin is so easily rivalled by a Saiyan hybrid like Gohan who has only been practising martial arts for roughly a year. It wasn't too long afterwards that Gohan began to pull ahead of Krillin. I suspect the two zenkais he received from Recoome and Freeza had a hand in that jump.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Mireya » Sat May 28, 2022 10:08 pm

Ok, Kuririn had some days lead in regard to his potential unlock, as 4 days had passed. But look at how Vegeta looked at him when he got caught on Kuririn and Gohan when both were heading to Great Elder's place... Kuririn was in total awe at Vegeta's speed and Vegeta just says he's made from different stuff from Kuririn, treating him like hot garbage and a non factor, this after the 4 days had passed, not even acknowledging any power up from Kuririn's part in comparison to the 1st time he noticed it. As for Gohan, he notices a sudden increase and then is seen sweatting, wondering how he increased it so suddenly. So the main point remains imo. Vegeta would have noticed Kuririn is different from before, specially since he was so focused on pinpointing their Ki, and Kuririn seemed to go full speed at the end, releasing everything he had.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Goku9001 » Sun May 29, 2022 3:43 am

I definitely understand the concern. Gohan's dormant power was built up multiple times in the narrative to be significant enough for both Kuririn and Gohan to have a chance against Vegeta. In fact, Kuririn wagered that Gohan would be relevant to Vegeta once he had his dormant power unlocked. Even if you were to argue that Kuririn's dormant power was unlocked days prior, Kuririn's power isn't noted to have increased from the moment Vegeta located Kuririn to the moment when Gohan's dormant power is unlocked. Vegeta doesn't begin to connect the dots on how Gohan and Kuririn's powers were gradually increasing until after he continued to watch them fight the Ginyu Force and Goku-Ginyu.

If we take a look at Vegeta's and Kuririns immediate reaction to Gohan's power, it's quite telling.
Vegeta doesn't even acknowledge Kuririn at this point. He's alerted by Gohan's power, Kuririn is completely ecstatic by Gohan's power-up, and Vegeta literally thinks Goku was here after sensing Gohan's power.

It really does seem like Gohan was intended to be stronger and yet Toriyama may have changed his mind on it to establish the status quo of Vegeta being the strongest competitor with Gohan and Kuririn being equals.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon May 30, 2022 4:37 pm

Kaboom wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:09 pm That was just the immediate initial power boost. Apparently the Grand Elder's unlock had a cumulative effect over time, since by the time the fight with Freeza started Gohan had a power level of about 200,000 while Kuririn was "only" at 75,000. Much more reflective of how much dormant potential Gohan is supposed to have.
This. It might also have helped that Kuririn got his boost way earlier.
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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Saturnine » Tue May 31, 2022 10:58 am

Like everyone else has said - otherwise it wouldn't have made much sense for Gohan to be around Vegeta's level on Earth to over 200k against Freeza - there was no way to get any training in in the meantime. Though arguably Gohan could have received a few Zenkais to help him along the way too - seems like there's a very good chance he got one after getting his spine broken by Recoome, could have also received one after being manhandled by 2nd form Freeza.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:20 pm

You guys bring up an interesting question that is somewhat related to this question. The question being why did vegeta treat Krillin as hot garbage despite bring his bp up by 10k in such a short time. We know from his fight with Goku that he considers merely a rise of 8k within a year to be a monumentous improvement, so one has to wonder why he did not enquire or at least was shock by his sudden rise in BP.

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Re: Why was Gohan only slightly above Kuririn after Saichoro's release of dormant power?

Post by Lionel » Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:38 pm

Seekeroftruth wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:20 pm You guys bring up an interesting question that is somewhat related to this question. The question being why did vegeta treat Krillin as hot garbage despite bring his bp up by 10k in such a short time. We know from his fight with Goku that he considers merely a rise of 8k within a year to be a monumentous improvement, so one has to wonder why he did not enquire or at least was shock by his sudden rise in BP.
Circumstances are something to take into account. When he sensed Krillin's power for the first time it was while he was trying to conceal himself from Freeza and Zarbon. It was a power that he noted was abnormally high and fairly impressive though not on the scale of Vegeta's. Gohan's power had suddenly escalated which Vegeta was able to register first hand after previously sensing it make its way to the Grand Elder's home.

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