Goku's attitude regarding Piccolo Jr.

[Ashur]

So i'm sure everyone remembers this exchange:

It honestly just occurred to me, why did Goku use to say that sort of thing to Gohan?

Of course this is just Toriyama sloppily introducing this to reinforce Piccolo Jr. not being as evil as the previous Piccolo, but i'm wondering from an in-universe perspective, what made Goku think this way? As far as he saw Piccolo was irrevocably evil, he tried to murder everyone on the island, including his friends, multiple times in the Tournament, was overjoyed with the people being terrified of him, and even monologued about how great being evil and not having to care about people is, what hints would Goku pick up during or after the Tournament that this wasn't the same level of evilness as the original demon king?

Also, before he even mentioned that, he already had a change in his attitude regarding Piccolo Jr. from the beginning, with Piccolo Daimao he utterly hated the guy, and was always decided to kill him in cold blood, while with Jr. he is content with letting him live and has sort of a rivalry dynamic rather than pure hatred, of course this is largely because 1. he now knows killing Piccolo would cause Kami to die, someone he apparently cares about, on top of the permanent loss of the Dragon Balls, and 2. the fact that he is calmer now as an adult, not in grief over Krillin and Roshi's deaths, so this could be something that influenced Goku to think this Piccolo wasn't as bad, as he didin't actually hurt Goku's feelings much more than what the old Piccolo did, but i'm not sure that was everything, there must have been something that convinced him this wasn't the same level of evil, something important enough that he would comment on this to his son, who doesn't even know these events personally.

Was it something he noticed during the 23rd Budokai, or was it something he realized during the 5 years of peace? Maybe it was the fact that Piccolo never stormed into his house randomly to fight??

Personally i find it really interesting how his attitude with Piccolo Daimao is almost completely different from how he treats the younger Piccolo.

[ZombieVito]

Well it was probably the fact that Piccolo participated on the tournament instead of just killing everyone and fight Goku from the jump. Also as you said, Piccolo never hurt anyone in those 5 years so that has to count for Goku.

[Lionel]

Well it was probably the fact that Piccolo participated on the tournament instead of just killing everyone and fight Goku from the jump. Also as you said, Piccolo never hurt anyone in those 5 years so that has to count for Goku.

I noticed this too in another discussion. It may have had to do with the fact that Piccolo Jr was choosing to respect human institutions and rules up to a point rather than simply go straight for the usurping Earth's government. World domination was still an expressed objective of Jr's but it's like Goku became a focal point where he could direct his malice and enmity rather than project it onto the whole world. Following the tournament Goku went so far as to provide a sensu bean that rejuvenated Piccolo. Far as we're aware the Namekian didn't murder anyone in the five year timeskip between arcs. Maybe it was this patience and discretion that Goku was also taking note of that prompted him to characterise Piccolo for Gohan as being less evil than his father

[DBZAOTA482]

Piccolo also never killed anyone during the 3 year timeskip. In filler, he even saved a woman and her child.

His talk of taking over the world was all bark no bite.

[Ashur]

Well it was probably the fact that Piccolo participated on the tournament instead of just killing everyone and fight Goku from the jump. Also as you said, Piccolo never hurt anyone in those 5 years so that has to count for Goku.

Sure, but it should be noted that he specifically did that only to humilliate Goku in front of his friends, he even talks about it as "a game" and he's fine with Goku's friends trying to help him and getting themselves killed, he never expected Goku to follow through with all the rules per se, he's even about to drop the whole tournament idea when he thinks he killed Krillin during their quarter finals match, that said i can see Goku thnking this Piccolo isn't as bad precisely because he was playing in that "game".

Piccolo also never killed anyone during the 3 year timeskip. In filler, he even saved a woman and her child.

His talk of taking over the world was all bark no bite.

I wouldn't say it was all bark and no bite, if we take filler into account he did blow up that old farmland's home for no reason, there is no definitive evidence that he killed during those 3 years or not, and the reason he didin't kill anyone with the Chou Bakuretsumaha is because Tenshinhan provided for shelter and the civillians had run away from the Tournament, and Goku doesn't know about the woman and child he saved so those filler instances of him not being so bad should have no effect on Goku's view.

[Cipher]

If looking for in-story justifications, there’s a change visible in the second Piccolo far before Gohan’s dialogue comes up. He expresses interest in and compliments other martial-artists, rises to and respects challenges, etc. Aside from consuming God after reversing the Mafuba, while he’s out for vengeance, he still plays fair and square. It’s all a marked difference from the first Piccolo, who never even considered himself a martial-artist (instead fearing and loathing them), and I think it feels germane that that would go a long way for Goku, and that he could pick up on the shift.

He may still be evil, but I think Goku senses in him a kindred warrior spirit, and that’s not for nothing with the guy. The original Piccolo doesn’t have that.

[BeaBumby]

Question: What sparked this change in Piccolo? What started his slow change from evil to good?

[Ashur]

If looking for in-story justifications, there’s a change visible in the second Piccolo far before Gohan’s dialogue comes up. He expresses interest in and compliments other martial-artists, rises to and respects challenges, etc. Aside from consuming God after reversing the Mafuba, while he’s out for vengeance, he still plays fair and square. It’s all a marked difference from the first Piccolo, who never even considered himself a martial-artist (instead fearing and loathing them), and I think it feels germane that that would go a long way for Goku, and that he could pick up on the shift.

He may still be evil, but I think Goku senses in him a kindred warrior spirit, and that’s not for nothing with the guy. The original Piccolo doesn’t have that.

That's true, he was definetly far less cowardly than the first Piccolo, who took Tenshinhan hostage during their fight to win, Piccolo Jr. never did something as cowardly (even though he purposefully aimed at civillians, he never did so to make Goku stand still so he fought more fair overall) Goku may have picked up on that, and during the Piccolo Daimao fight that cowardice was something that visibly irritated Goku, it makes sense that such traits not being there anymore would matter to Goku in determining how evil he was compared to his original self.

Question: What sparked this change in Piccolo? What started his slow change from evil to good?

I think the first step towards it was Goku sparing his life, because it put him against a wall of not being able to take over the world and it showed him compassion for the first time, much to his annoyance, but the most important early factor was Gohan talking to him like any other friend, in spite of his demonic origins and how badly Piccolo treated him at first.

Though the initial psychological factor that allowed for him to eventually becoming good was a sort of resentment towards the fate that had been asigned to him since birth, that became prominent after Goku forgave him, and is what made him susceptible to Gohan's kindness.

At least that's how i see it.

[DBZAOTA482]

I wouldn't say it was all bark and no bite, if we take filler into account he did blow up that old farmland's home for no reason

To be fair, he was a newborn. In filler, he was jealous of a family and broke into their house showing he's really just a lost child.

[TobyS]

If looking for in-story justifications, there’s a change visible in the second Piccolo far before Gohan’s dialogue comes up. He expresses interest in and compliments other martial-artists, rises to and respects challenges, etc. Aside from consuming God after reversing the Mafuba, while he’s out for vengeance, he still plays fair and square. It’s all a marked difference from the first Piccolo, who never even considered himself a martial-artist (instead fearing and loathing them), and I think it feels germane that that would go a long way for Goku, and that he could pick up on the shift.

He may still be evil, but I think Goku senses in him a kindred warrior spirit, and that’s not for nothing with the guy. The original Piccolo doesn’t have that.

Yeah I think it's part this and part like... In pretty sure it's said sometimes when characters feel ki that it's an “evil ki” perhaps in addition to sensing the amount of power someone has they can sense the relative amount of evil.

While perhaps kid Goku couldn't really sense ki when he thought sr perhaps jr felt less evil then he thought he should be. Or like less evil then Kami felt “good”

I think these a spiritual sense/detection element here.