RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

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super michael
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RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by super michael » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:20 am

Freeza said that he predicts with 4 months of earnest training, he would reach a power level of 1,300,000. However that power level doesn't make any sense and here is why.

Freeza against Nails he says that he has a power level of 530,000 in his 1st form.
Freeza against Krillin, Vegeta and Gohan he says he has a power level surpassing 1,000,000+ in his 2nd form.

So how in the world would it make sense of his power level to be 1,300,000 when that is too close to his 2nd Form on Namek. Probably below his 3rd form, final form, 50% final form, 100% final form, Cell and Buu.

That power level of 1,300,000 doesn't make sense at all. His fighters being Zarbon tier makes no sense also.

C17 can kill Freeza like nothing, while Post ROSAT Piccolo can kill C17 easy.

Edit does this belong here more or in General? I don't mind whic section this thread stays in or goes to.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by theherodjl » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:46 am

It was probably more of figure of speech, as in "Heh, with a bit of training, I'll achieve a power level of 1.3 million and higher!". Freeza's henchmen weren't anywhere close to even his first form's power so he likely was sort of low-key bragging to them as well.
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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:19 pm

It was a mistake. There's a reason the anime doesn't have that line.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:51 pm

Yeah, it probably was a mistake. Toriyama not remembering his own numbers and nobody from Toei correcting him.

At face value, it means his first form will double in power, which shouldn't be a big deal, certainly not something exciting if you are planning on taking revenge on a SS that killed Buu and has fought Beerus, people daddy told you to stay away from. With a linear growth, at full power he'd be still outclassed by android arc Super Saiyans.

Or, yeah, a figure of speech.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:31 pm

It was a mistake, people make mistakes.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Goku9001 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:13 am

It was a mistake, just like the Base Goku and Frieza comparison. Toriyama likely forgot.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Geraldo » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:47 am

What about Sorbet thinking that the Ginyu Force were stronger than the heavily improved Shisami and Tagoma who trained with Frieza for four months? Same story, different mediums, same shitty mistakes.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:07 am

Geraldo wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:47 am What about Sorbet thinking that the Ginyu Force were stronger than the heavily improved Shisami and Tagoma who trained with Frieza for four months? Same story, different mediums, same shitty mistakes.
What was the exact statement?

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:53 am

dbgtFO wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:07 am
Geraldo wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:47 am What about Sorbet thinking that the Ginyu Force were stronger than the heavily improved Shisami and Tagoma who trained with Frieza for four months? Same story, different mediums, same shitty mistakes.
What was the exact statement?
Episode 21: Minute: 21
Sorbet: “I don't believe this! He's surpassed the Ginyu Special Force we once had!”
Tagoma: “Oh, right, those guys...They're nothing but ancient history, though!”

Herms’ note: While not exactly a contradiction, Tagoma is supposed to be on par with Gohan (see below), so Sorbet’s line here is a considerable understatement. It’s probably mostly there just to remind everyone about the existence of Ginyu. Since that’s apparently going to be a big part of the next episode…

My thoughts: if anything the mistake was making Piccolo have trouble with a warrior comparable to Base Gohan, but granted Gohan’s line seems to be an understatement as well.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Lionel » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:13 pm

Yeah, 1.3 million power levels and the Ginyu Force should garner nothing from any of the Z-Warriors there except maybe Roshi who shouldn't be intimidated with his much more powerful teammates around him. By precedent I could understand Freeza's minions being shocked as the Ginyus were top standard commando warriors under the direct command of Freeza himself. The only ones more powerful than they during their high point would have been Freeza himself and Cold. For anyone sans Freeza himself to have surpassed the aforementioned Ginyus could plausibly garner a reaction from the minions but to challenge the human fighters, let alone Gohan or Super Namekian Piccolo? It's a bridge too far.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Galan007 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:19 pm

Of course the 1.3m figure doesn't make sense. That's why it was cut from the manga adaptation and the anime revamp.

That fact of the matter is that Freeza had never trained a day in his life, so he had no clue what kind of gains he could actually achieve by training -- he was just spitballing.

That being said, in just 4 months the guy went from being WEAKER than he was during the Namek saga, to being ~/> SSB Goku during RoF. That equates to an increase of so many orders of magnitude that it's hard to even wrap your head around... But it is what it is. Freeza is an absolute prodigy.

Hell, you could argue that even FIRST form Freeza(post-training/RoF) was no less than Bootenks-level, given Gohan's statement in the anime that Tagoma was equal to him "at his best"(ie. equal to his Boo-era "Ultimate" form)... Yet per the anime flashback, FIRST form Freeza seemed to have routinely beat the crap out of Tagoma without much effort at all.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:08 pm

Galan007 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:19 pm Of course the 1.3m figure doesn't make sense. That's why it was cut from the manga adaptation and the anime revamp.

That fact of the matter is that Freeza had never trained a day in his life, so he had no clue what kind of gains he could actually achieve by training -- he was just spitballing.

That being said, in just 4 months the guy went from being WEAKER than he was during the Namek saga, to being ~/> SSB Goku during RoF. That equates to an increase of so many orders of magnitude that it's hard to even wrap your head around... But it is what it is. Freeza is an absolute prodigy.

Hell, you could argue that even FIRST form Freeza(post-training/RoF) was no less than Bootenks-level, given Gohan's statement in the anime that Tagoma was equal to him "at his best"(ie. equal to his Boo-era "Ultimate" form)... Yet per the anime flashback, FIRST form Freeza seemed to have routinely beat the crap out of Tagoma without much effort at all.
Krillin actually implies twice that Boo would be enough to beat first form Freeza.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Galan007 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:27 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:08 pm Krillin actually implies twice that Boo would be enough to beat first form Freeza.
True, but perhaps Krillin was factoring in Boo's infinite stamina + unbounded regen + esoteric magics? In which case I would agree that Boo may have been able to beat 1st form Freeza... Because even if Freeza started out significantly more powerful than Boo, he would still tire/deplete eventually, while Boo would not(regardless of the "damage" he takes)... OR Boo just hits him with a candy-beam at the onset, ftw. /shrug

I was just referring to raw base power when I likened 1st form Freeza to Bootenks. Because in the anime, Gohan stated that Tagoma's power was equal to him "at his best"(IOW, Tagoma = Boo-era Ultimate Gohan.) Also per the anime flashback, 1st form Freeza was implied to have routinely stomped Tagoma without much effort during their "training sessions". To me, this implies that 1st form Freeza would have at least been on par with Bootenks, as nothing less than that would logically be able to gain any sort of clear superiority over someone with Ultimate Gohan-level power.

**This does not mean that 1st form Freeza could actually defeat Boo in a battle(for reasons mentioned previously.) It just means that his raw power may have been on that level.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:33 am

Galan007 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:27 pm True, but perhaps Krillin was factoring in Boo's infinite stamina + unbounded regen + esoteric magics? In which case I would agree that Boo may have been able to beat 1st form Freeza... Because even if Freeza started out significantly more powerful than Boo, he would still tire/deplete eventually, while Boo would not(regardless of the "damage" he takes)... OR Boo just hits him with a candy-beam at the onset, ftw. /shrug
I don't think he was. All those advantages didn't mean jack for Boohan against SS Vegetto.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:39 am

Galan007 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:27 pm Because in the anime, Gohan stated that Tagoma's power was equal to him "at his best"(IOW, Tagoma = Boo-era Ultimate Gohan.)
This is what Gohan says when narrating episode 21: “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”

Presumably when Gohan says that Tagoma is “hiding power at least on par with my own” (僕に勝るとも劣らない力を秘めています), he is talking about his Base form, as Tagoma, even powered-up by Ginyu, is no match for his Super Saiyan form. Also, Herms noted this would seemingly make Tagoma at least a little bit stronger than Gohan, which wouldn’t make sense if Gohan was referring to his Super Saiyan level, or Ultimate, which is even stronger.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:53 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:39 am This is what Gohan says when narrating episode 21: “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”

Presumably when Gohan says that Tagoma is “hiding power at least on par with my own” (僕に勝るとも劣らない力を秘めています), he is talking about his Base form, as Tagoma, even powered-up by Ginyu, is no match for his Super Saiyan form. Also, Herms noted this would seemingly make Tagoma at least a little bit stronger than Gohan, which wouldn’t make sense if Gohan was referring to his Super Saiyan level, or Ultimate, which is even stronger.
But Ginyu calls base Gohan's power puny.

Considering that Ginyu wanted to continue to fight SS Gohan after their brief fight, I feel they were indeed rivals with Gohan coming on top of course.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:35 am

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:53 am But Ginyu calls base Gohan's power puny.

Considering that Ginyu wanted to continue to fight SS Gohan after their brief fight, I feel they were indeed rivals with Gohan coming on top of course.
Gohan said Tagoma’s power was at least on par with his own, implying Tagoma is either equal or stronger than Gohan in that aspect. Gohan coming on top as a Super Saiyan suggests the opposite of what he said before.

Remember Ginyu powered-up further, so his next level was definitely above of whatever Gohan talked about there. So, Tagoma and Ginyu being stronger than Gohan’s base form fits perfectly in what Gohan said.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Galan007 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:27 am

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:33 am I don't think he was. All those advantages didn't mean jack for Boohan against SS Vegetto.
I mean, Boo's infinite stamina + regen certainly meant something against Vegetto... But I see what you're saying.

Regardless, it seems like there was a [mis]translation issue on my end, based on the subs I have seen in the past.
Hugo Boss wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:39 am This is what Gohan says when narrating episode 21: “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”

Presumably when Gohan says that Tagoma is “hiding power at least on par with my own” (僕に勝るとも劣らない力を秘めています), he is talking about his Base form, as Tagoma, even powered-up by Ginyu, is no match for his Super Saiyan form. Also, Herms noted this would seemingly make Tagoma at least a little bit stronger than Gohan, which wouldn’t make sense if Gohan was referring to his Super Saiyan level, or Ultimate, which is even stronger.
Okay. So if this is indeed the correct translation, then some of the previous anime translations/subs I've seen were quite inaccurate(I never bothered to double-check them, so that's my bad.)

Because per the quote you posted, it seems like Gohan was just referring to Tagoma potentially being =/> than him at the time of RoF(wherein he was pathetically weak, in comparison to the other arcs.) That would certainly make more sense than Tagoma being Bootenks-level, which is what some of the other [incorrect] subs implied.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:38 pm

Galan007 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:27 am I mean, Boo's infinite stamina + regen certainly meant something against Vegetto... But I see what you're saying.

Regardless, it seems like there was a [mis]translation issue on my end, based on the subs I have seen in the past.
No, they didn't. Only reason SS Vegetto didn't kill Boo right away was because he wanted to save the people Boo absorbed.

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Re: RoF Freeza 1,300,000 power level doesn't make sense

Post by Galan007 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:00 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:38 pm No, they didn't. Only reason SS Vegetto didn't kill Boo right away was because he wanted to save the people Boo absorbed.
I'm not saying that Vegetto couldn't have killed Boohan -- of course he could have. What I'm saying is that Boo's stamina + regen still meant something, in the sense that he was able to instantly recover from the damage that Vegetto dished out.

As an example:

It obviously wouldn't have been enough to prevent Vegetto from killing him outright. Never said otherwise. But the ability to instantly heal/recover was still useful while Vegetto was holding back.

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