Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

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MCDaveG
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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:29 am

dva_raza wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:01 am
MCDaveG wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:50 pm Honestly, I actually never understood Goku's powering up against Buu just to fail miserably...
My reaction at first time was actually same as Vegeta's. Somehow, I have failed to grasp the logic behind Goku doing it and wonder what was the creative idea rendering SSJ3 useless like that after the big showdown against Fat Buu.
The draining power remark was similar to "oh, we probably defused because there's foul air".

To raise stakes at the end and make it more dramatic? There was no such issue in GT with SSJ3 either, when we go chronologicaly, so this bit at the end of Z always stood out to me, even more as a kid.
SSJ3 was still regarded as the strongest SSJ form in Z outside of the main story and not treated as a phase like Grade SSJs were, which were rendered useless for being bulky and slow right after their introductions.
It's just speculation but trying to look at it from how the writer’s perspective could’ve been.

Vegeta had already faced (and failed) against Buu with his SS2...
Later on, considering Goku was equal to Vegeta, in which way could the writer make Goku useful and let him have a shot against Buu without it being a repetition of Majin Vegeta vs Majin Buu? My guess is this could’ve been the point at which he came up with SS3. But then as a writing tactic he throws in the stamina drain condition. That way he explains Goku not using it against Vegeta, and also gives the form a 'downside' needed to extend the story and have other characters participate.
Basically he gives him a new transformation because why not? It’s cool. But I don’t think it’s idea was ever to be effective, it was just to add nuance to the plot along with a new upgrade for Goku.
Yeah, with the simplicity in the series going on, I see Toriyama giving SSJ3 Goku to push him further beyond Vegeta and giving it to Gotenks so they will have an edge on more powerful Buu, that Goku fought before as SSJ3.
Goku is always one step beyond Vegeta, so yeah, he had to trumph him in some major way and then kill the form a bit, so we get the people save themselves in a way through Goku's genkidama.
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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:51 am

sure. why not?

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by Galan007 » Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:14 pm

BeaBumby wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:21 am Obviously he couldn't in the Buu saga, that much is very clear, but a lot of time has passed since then. Do you think he could do it? Why or why not?
He certainly could.

In the anime, Goku indicated that SS3 was fully possible for a relative novice, like Caulifla, to achieve... So there's no reason to think that Vegeta couldn't do the same.

But like others have said: there would be absolutely no reason for Vegeta to put any effort into becoming SS3 at this point, as it is orders of magnitude below the God-level power that he is trying to perfect now.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by BWri » Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:50 am

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:31 am He can reach that power without the drains of that form. Probably he can grow more hair, but chooses not to, he can get the most out of that form with his powered up SS2 form, with no drawbacks.

This makes me wonder, though, could he amp his SS2 form (that surpasses Goku's SS3), becoming several times stronger than he already is in that form, or he'd just get longer hair with no power boost? I think the latter is the answer. If with his fake SS3, he is a 10, I doubt he could be a 40 with real SS3, I think he'd still be a 10 with longer hair and stamina issues.
Trunks figured out how to amp or master his SSJ2. I think Vegeta could do the same. Mutated Vegeta (My Bulma!) basically did when you think about it since he surpassed Goku when he fought Beerus. SSJ3 is superfluous when you can already amp SSJ2 to match it.

An interesting wrinkle would be if this was spurred on by a genetic trait with Vegeta's bloodline which maximizes SSJ2. ...or maybe the SSJ3 hair and form is one unique to Goku's bloodline, cuz Raditz.

Either way, similar to grade 3 SSJ, Vegeta sees the drawbacks of SSJ3 and chooses not to pursue it is my guess.
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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:33 pm

I just think it's very bizarre and stupid that they only let Goku use SSJ3, and it never does ANYTHING.

Like, give it to Trunks or something lol Let someone actually DO something with it.
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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by dva_raza » Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:40 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:33 pm I just think it's very bizarre and stupid that they only let Goku use SSJ3, and it never does ANYTHING.

Like, give it to Trunks or something lol Let someone actually DO something with it.
Maybe it was a troll form. Which I don't mind. Having a useless transformation was unexpected, and I appreciate DB being that way lol.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:03 am

There should never be a point where you showcase a big, epic transformation sequence and then the audience gets up to make coffee because they know nothing of importance is going to happen.
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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by BagetaSama » Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:36 am

TobyS wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:39 am
nineko wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:30 am
MCDaveG wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:10 pmI don't remember if Goku went SSJ3 in Super again besides in opening animation.
He briefly uses it against Toppo in the manga (chapter 29), and he shows it to Caulifla in the anime (episode 113).
In the Moro arc as they cycle down through their forms as they lose energy we briefly see it.
Yeah he drops from SSG to SSJ3, and gets OHKO'd by Saganbo.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:11 pm

He cannot. SSJ3 is a transformation that is not just about power but mentally bringing out all of ones Saiyans power to the surface. Vegeta has yet to demonstrate the ability to do this.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:57 pm

I personally don't believe so, not for the main "canonical" storyline anyway. In my eyes, Super Saiyan 3 has always been portrayed as a very unnatural form that cannot be attained by normal training methods. Goku was seemingly only able to reach it through his training in the afterlife where his "dead" body had no sense of time or stamina, but could not maintain it for very long at all in his living body... much less so when he was fully revived at the end of the Buu arc, at which point using it for only a few minutes almost wipes him out completely. Gotenks achieved it simply by virtue of being a Fusion of two half-Saiyans, so his potential was through the roof and the magic of the Fusion Dance allows him to reach these levels. Getting Super Saiyan 3 in the first place is hard enough, but maintaining it in a normal body is harder still, hence why Goku doesn't use it much anymore.

Since Battle of Gods, Vegeta has never indicated that he can go Super Saiyan 3. The closest we get to him addressing the question is when Trunks asks him to go Super Saiyan 3, and he just laughs it off, before instead powering up to Super Saiyan Blue. As others have said, the conclusion to draw from that is that even if he can do it, which he conspicuously avoids answering straight, it's completely irrelevant now that he has access to the God forms. We have others scenes where it might've been prudent for Vegeta to go SS3, most notably in Battle of Gods when he fights Beerus, but he doesn't. He seems to only be using Super Saiyan 1 or 2 against Beerus, yet he manages to outperform Goku's Super Saiyan 3. This ties into Toriyama's intention for the basic Super Saiyan form to have higher potential than Super Saiyan 2 or 3. In the Super manga, is further confirmed when Future Trunks obtains an enhanced Super Saiyan 2 form that's at least as strong as Super Saiyan 3 (possibly stronger, since Goku sneakily goes God to kick Trunks in the back of the head like a lil bitch).

The one wrinkle to this is in the anime, where Goku implies that Caulifla and Kale have the potential to reach Super Saiyan 3. Maybe he means that they'll have to learn it while merged first, then figure out how to do it on their own through muscle memory, which is basically how he was able to get a handle on it. More likely, it simply means that Caulifla and Kale are just that good.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by BagetaSama » Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:04 pm

Galan007 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:14 pm
BeaBumby wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:21 am Obviously he couldn't in the Buu saga, that much is very clear, but a lot of time has passed since then. Do you think he could do it? Why or why not?
He certainly could.

In the anime, Goku indicated that SS3 was fully possible for a relative novice, like Caulifla, to achieve... So there's no reason to think that Vegeta couldn't do the same.

But like others have said: there would be absolutely no reason for Vegeta to put any effort into becoming SS3 at this point, as it is orders of magnitude below the God-level power that he is trying to perfect now.
Are you talking about the anime or manga continuity? Because the gap between the mortal SSJ forms and the divine forms, seems to have grown a lot smaller once they learn to access them on their own in the anime, but in the manga it seems to be on a completely different plane similar to in BoG.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by Galan007 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:24 am

BagetaSama wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:04 pm Are you talking about the anime or manga continuity? Because the gap between the mortal SSJ forms and the divine forms, seems to have grown a lot smaller once they learn to access them on their own in the anime, but in the manga it seems to be on a completely different plane similar to in BoG.
I suppose that I was referring to the former, as the anime is where Goku indicated that it was possible for Caulifla to unlock SS3, despite the fact that she was rather inexperienced.

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Re: Could Present Vegeta Turn SSJ3?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:51 am

BagetaSama wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:04 pm Because the gap between the mortal SSJ forms and the divine forms, seems to have grown a lot smaller once they learn to access them on their own in the anime, but in the manga it seems to be on a completely different plane similar to in BoG.
not really relevant... God is better in every way to SS3. No reason whatsoever to bother with an inferior transformation: at that point improving base SS makes more sense

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