Canonical or not?

Horgus · Post by **Horgus** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:15 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPuIKh2MQYo

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:08 am

It's filler.

Great animation, though.

(And surprisingly brutal

)

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:09 am

Horgus wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPuIKh2MQYo

If you're asking if we should consider this short scuffle "canon", well obviously we can and (IMO) should with the anime. When it comes to the manga, if it wasn't implemented by Toriyama, then it never happened in that realm. When is everyone gonna get this, the manga and anime, while similar to a fantastic degree, are two separate universes/canon/continuities. I could give at least a half a dozen reasons right off the top of my head, but I'd like to think you all got this by now. Anything filler in the anime isn't "non-canon" because the anime doesn't share the same world with the manga, understand that, please.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:37 am

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Horgus wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPuIKh2MQYo
If you're asking if we should consider this short scuffle "canon", well obviously we can and (IMO) should with the anime. When it comes to the manga, if it wasn't implemented by Toriyama, then it never happened in that realm. When is everyone gonna get this, the manga and anime, while similar to a fantastic degree, are two separate universes/canon/continuities. I could give at least a half a dozen reasons right off the top of my head, but I'd like to think you all got this by now. Anything filler in the anime isn't "non-canon" because the anime doesn't share the same world with the manga, understand that, please.

I wouldn't agree with you in this case... The anime is an adaption of the manga that follows the same continuity, which occasionally has random crap thrown in for various reasons and may not sync up because of it. Realizing the distinction between canon and filler is important because it may save you a lot of time wondering why something happened later on.
I can appreciate your attempt to rationalize the frustration of filler... and in some series I would agree with you (I.E. Fullmetal Alchemist, Trigun) but I wouldn't apply that reasoning to Dragonball...

As for that scene... it is, indeed, filler. The worst that comes about in the manga is after everyone gets bummed out, Vegeta suggests something that no one considered and Gohan attempts to thank him with a hand shake and he smacks his hand away.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:45 am

Conan the SSJ wrote:If you're asking if we should consider this short scuffle "canon", well obviously we can and (IMO) should with the anime. When it comes to the manga, if it wasn't implemented by Toriyama, then it never happened in that realm. When is everyone gonna get this, the manga and anime, while similar to a fantastic degree, are two separate universes/canon/continuities. I could give at least a half a dozen reasons right off the top of my head, but I'd like to think you all got this by now. Anything filler in the anime isn't "non-canon" because the anime doesn't share the same world with the manga, understand that, please.

I disagree. The continuity errors produced by some filler (Piccolo destroying Goku's spacepod utterly, and Goku making note of it being intact many episodes later for example) make it impossible for them to fit *any* canon.

IMHO, it's goofy to try and make different canons. I actually know a guy who plays a video game series (Phantasy Star) wherein one character who is recurring through the series was renamed in the first title but had his original name restored in the other games. The guy refuses to believe the two are the same person in the English version, but acknowledges they are in the Japanese. His explanation? Different continuities/canon. Despite one of the translators giving an interview years later stating that the name change was a flub.

Please, don't be like him ;p

-Corey

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:59 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
Conan the SSJ wrote:If you're asking if we should consider this short scuffle "canon", well obviously we can and (IMO) should with the anime. When it comes to the manga, if it wasn't implemented by Toriyama, then it never happened in that realm. When is everyone gonna get this, the manga and anime, while similar to a fantastic degree, are two separate universes/canon/continuities. I could give at least a half a dozen reasons right off the top of my head, but I'd like to think you all got this by now. Anything filler in the anime isn't "non-canon" because the anime doesn't share the same world with the manga, understand that, please.
I disagree. The continuity errors produced by some filler (Piccolo destroying Goku's spacepod utterly, and Goku making note of it being intact many episodes later for example) make it impossible for them to fit *any* canon.

IMHO, it's goofy to try and make different canons. I actually know a guy who plays a video game series (Phantasy Star) wherein one character who is recurring through the series was renamed in the first title but had his original name restored in the other games. The guy refuses to believe the two are the same person in the English version, but acknowledges they are in the Japanese. His explanation? Different continuities/canon. Despite one of the translators giving an interview years later stating that the name change was a flub.

Please, don't be like him ;p

-Corey

There's a difference though. This does fit into a different cannon simply because it doesn't contradict anything in the manga. What happened on earth during the manga? This could have been what happened. Let's not forgot Toriyama had a lot of influince on some of the filler.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:08 pm

Pieter wrote:There's a difference though. This does fit into a different cannon simply because it doesn't contradict anything in the manga. What happened on earth during the manga? This could have been what happened. Let's not forgot Toriyama had a lot of influince on some of the filler.

Oh, I wasn't arguing about this particular scene, just the concept of the "anime canon" vs. "manga canon." This scene doesn't conflict with anything, just like non-SSJ Vejito vs. Boo and numerous others, but I was just pointing out the more flawed filler scenes.

-Corey

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:19 pm

I dunno, maybe it's plot elements like Namekians having a different number of fingers, certain deaths happening different than how the author implemented it (Kargo), major plot elements like how Trunks first went SSJ or the amount of help Gohan had defeating Cell, the specific traits of SSJ2, or even little things like where Vegeta took a nap before Porunga's first summoning. Really, it depends on our own points of view, and my point of view says they're two different canon/universes. That's just how I feel.

lets go swimming · Post by **lets go swimming** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:13 pm

The manga is canon, the anime is not

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:15 pm

I have to admit this is one of the dumber things TOEI put in the anime...

tainted saiyan · Post by **tainted saiyan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:31 pm

Still, You gotta love the look on Vegeta's face when Gohan lands that kick to the stomach. He's all "Oh no you didn't"!

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:58 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:I dunno, maybe it's plot elements like Namekians having a different number of fingers, certain deaths happening different than how the author implemented it (Kargo), major plot elements like how Trunks first went SSJ or the amount of help Gohan had defeating Cell, the specific traits of SSJ2, or even little things like where Vegeta took a nap before Porunga's first summoning. Really, it depends on our own points of view, and my point of view says they're two different canon/universes. That's just how I feel.

The amazing ability of Goku's spacepod to be intact after getting blasted by Piccolo?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:07 pm

Rocketman wrote:The amazing ability of Goku's spacepod to be intact after getting blasted by Piccolo?

I can see its parachute, it's okay ;p

-Corey

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:12 pm

There's no reason why this particular scene can't be considered canon. It doesn't contradict the manga.

tainted saiyan · Post by **tainted saiyan** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:21 pm

And, it's probably the most entertaining filler made... *Thinks back to the garlic junior saga and vomits*.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:30 pm

I have to give my compliments about the perfection of these series. Yes there are errors, but for a serie so big the makers seem like perfectionists.
Also I think people underestimate Akira Toriyama's influince on a lot of the filler. Here's a snippet from an interview:

Q: I have a question about Lunch. I noticed she disappeared once the series reaches the Raddiz saga. What ever happened to her?

A: To tell you the truth I totally forgot about the character Lunch at one time. But when I remembered her again, I had to think of a reason why she disappeared. So I made it seem that she was chasing after Teinshinhan all the time she was gone.

I believe Lunch didn't even appear in the manga, so he's talking about a cannon that only exists in the anime.
There's a lot of filler sequences I really like by the way. In DragonBall I watched the Goku vs Darkness without realising it was filler and it was great.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:06 pm

That was a good filler. I wish I could understand what they were saying though.

Slickmasterfunk · Post by **Slickmasterfunk** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:47 pm

tainted saiyan wrote:And, it's probably the most entertaining filler made... *Thinks back to the garlic junior saga and vomits*.

Yes, this is definitely a great example of good filler. Garlic Jr. saga? Great example of bad filler.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:10 pm

My favorite filler is Videl as Great Saiyawoman aka Great Saiyaman II.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:13 pm

Pieter wrote:I have to give my compliments about the perfection of these series. Yes there are errors, but for a serie so big the makers seem like perfectionists.
Also I think people underestimate Akira Toriyama's influince on a lot of the filler. Here's a snippet from an interview:
Q: I have a question about Lunch. I noticed she disappeared once the series reaches the Raddiz saga. What ever happened to her?

A: To tell you the truth I totally forgot about the character Lunch at one time. But when I remembered her again, I had to think of a reason why she disappeared. So I made it seem that she was chasing after Teinshinhan all the time she was gone.
I believe Lunch didn't even appear in the manga, so he's talking about a cannon that only exists in the anime.

Actually, that explanation he's referencing is in the manga, even though Lunch isn't actually shown. In the manga, when Bulma shows up at the Kame House before Raditz' arrival, she asks where Lunch is, and Kuririn says she went chasing Tenshinhan.

That's an interesting scene I don't remember seeing, though. I kind of like it, although I wish I could understand it so I knew what they were fighting about. =p

It seems a lot of people have their own differing definitions of canon, so that I won't go into that (although I personally wouldn't take it as canon any more than other filler segments), but I'm sure what the topic creator meant was "Is this in the manga or not?". And to answer that: no, it isn't. It's anime only.

Kanzenshuu

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