Porunga's reasoning

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Super Sonic
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Porunga's reasoning

Post by Super Sonic » Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:25 am

I don't know if anyone ever thought about this, but why did Porunga listen to Goku's refusal to be teleported back to Earth? In fact, why didn't he just teleport him instantly as soon as the wish was made?

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Post by Zackarotto » Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:44 am

I've thought about it.

I guess it was truly up to him. The characters aren't selfish enough that they would put their feelings on where Goku should be before his own. I would say, on those considerate types of wishes, the dragon would / should always ask for the opinion of the person it would benefit.

After all, why make a wish supposedly for that person's sake if they don't want it to be?

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Post by Deus ex Machina » Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:57 am

It's possible that Goku was strong enough that he couldn't be affected by Plounga's power if he didn't want it, in the same way Shelong couldn't just outright kill Vegeta and Nappa.

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Post by SDHero » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:54 am

Seriously, I think it's pretty much just Toriyama pulling something out his "you-know-where" again, just to set up the story the way he wanted it for the next chapters. Trunks showing up and going all ginsu demonstration on Frieza don't pay off so well if he has to first ask the guy who's already proven he can beat Frieza (Goku) to hold on just a sec and let him take a swing at it first (unless you're Vegeta, in which case you pretty much insist on that honor, but I digress).

Furthermore, we all know Toriyama had originally intended to end Dragonball after the battle with Frieza, so the poor guy had to pretty well write himself out of a hole here. I just don't think there's any really good logic you can apply to this conundrum, save that this is what happens sometimes when you make up the story as you go along.

But, hey, that's just about the only glaring plot hole Toriyama made on his way to the Jinzoningen arc, which is one his best in so far as planning ahead of time, and it shows.
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Post by PsyLiam » Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:04 pm

Well thought out up to a point, that point being when he changed (on the fly) from "two scary android baddies!" to "another two scary android baddies! And another one as well!" to "super scary insect type thingie!"
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Post by Ben Plante » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:35 pm

Maybe Polunga was just relaying Goku's message. I mean, if the dragon wanted to, I'm sure he could force Goku to appear on Earth, but he was just informing the cast of Goku's wish. Suppose they had said, "Ask him again, we really want/need him back," he probably would have. But, you know, if Goku wasn't gonna come back no matter how much they asked, they'd eventually give up.

And judging by the two dragons' impatience in the past, what with the "Hurry up and wish!" stuff they said a lot, eventually Polunga would probably just go, "He's not coming, now wish for something else, stubborn bastards."
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Post by Super Sonic » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:26 pm

Because of that impatience, that's why I figured that Shen Long would've just said tough, and fulfilled the wish.

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Post by PsyLiam » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:48 pm

I always thought that they should call the Dragons' bluff on that one. Perhaps gone and had a picnic. Porunga and Shenlong would have probably been stuck floating around in the sky, while everyone laughed at them. Or something.
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Post by SDHero » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:59 pm

One has to wonder where the dragons go when not summoned, because they sure seem like they're in a big hurry to get back to it. Maybe Cleveland?
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Post by PsyLiam » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:22 pm

Unlikely. Dirty animal sex with Carmen Electra seems a more believable thing for them to be doing.
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Post by *PINHEAD* » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:24 am

I always thought the dragons transcend into some pure form of power and get scattered along with the balls, or just go and chill in the ocean somewhere.

Remember, Dragon Ball was supposed to end at the Freeza story arc, so Son Goku surviving the explosion of Namek but not wanting to return just gives him a sort of heroic legacy thing. It's probably just to make the story seem cooler. Up till then, the Super Saiyan was supposed to be the most powerful being in existence, so it's like he's more powerful than some dragon, and can do what he wants.
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Post by PsyLiam » Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:46 am

But half the cast were stronger than "some dragon" by that point in the series, so it's not overly impressive.
*PINHEAD* wrote:Remember, Dragon Ball was supposed to end at the Freeza story arc...
SDHero wrote:Furthermore, we all know Toriyama had originally intended to end Dragonball after the battle with Freeza...
And they say that kids have no attention spans nowadays. Pft, I say.
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Post by SDHero » Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:35 pm

Toriyama never had a plan TO get Goku back to Earth, he was supposed to die fighting Frieza, or actually get wished home to reunite with his family. Toriyama really could've done better though, somehow using up all the gang's wishes before being able to wish Goku home, and having Goku say that was alright because he could get home in the ship he had, though it might take a while.

Toriyama did a much better job at the end of the Cell arc, where Goku asks not to be revived -before- they make the wish, rather than having Goku be able to negate a wish from the Dragonballs.
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Post by *PINHEAD* » Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:10 pm

I don't think he planned on ending the series with Son Goku dying fighting Freeza. I mean, he just died a year earlier, and it would be kinda strange if the main character of a series died in both major story arcs. Leaving it at "He refuses [or something like that]" would be more mysterious and cool, 'cause they know he's alive but he's not talking directly to them.

But I dunno what's the big deal about dying in DB. There's always the dragon balls, and if that won't work you can always just go back to Earth for a day.
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Post by Dayspring » Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:53 pm

OR Toriyama intended to end it with Goku being the strongest in the universe. :P
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Post by Xyex » Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:35 pm

*PINHEAD* wrote:I don't think he planned on ending the series with Son Goku dying fighting Freeza. I mean, he just died a year earlier, and it would be kinda strange if the main character of a series died in both major story arcs. Leaving it at "He refuses [or something like that]" would be more mysterious and cool, 'cause they know he's alive but he's not talking directly to them.

But I dunno what's the big deal about dying in DB. There's always the dragon balls, and if that won't work you can always just go back to Earth for a day.
I've said before how I think Toriyama-sama intended to end Dragonball before he was told to continue it, but I'll say it again here. Well, I'm to lazy to write it all out again, but I can copy and paste it at least. ^_^

*The same up to the Spirit Bomb. Then, when Freeza recovered and tried to blast Goku, Piccolo would have died while saving him. Thus the Earth Dragonballs would be gone and there would be no wish to revive the Nameks, nor anyway to restore either set of Dragonballs. Krillin would have died, Goku would have gone SSJ, Gohan and Bulma may have left the planet (or Bulma could have left by herself, we know Gohan really didn't want to leave Goku there alone).

Either way, Namek would have gone boom, Goku and Freeza would be dead. Piccolo would be dead. Krillin would be dead. Yamcha would be dead. Tien would be dead. Chaotzu would be dead. Vegeta would be dead. The Nameks would be dead. Gohan may even be dead. No one would be revived ever again. The series would be over. Not exactly a 'warm and fuzzy' ending, but the show would have definately gone out with bang that way.*

That would have done away with the Parunga loophole all together for one. ^_^ But yeah, Toriyama-sama probably intended something along these lines, so that the series couldn't be continued beyond this point. I think that, if he'd known he'd be doing more he wouldn't have made the Namekian DBs as powerful as he did. Oh well.
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Post by Dayspring » Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:46 pm

Another possibility could be that Goku dies in the explosion, and Porgunga can't bring him back because Goku refuses to leave Heaven. Reasoning: now that he's the strongest in the universe, he wants to fight people stronger than him found only in the afterlife.
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