Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

[DBZAOTA482]

Even with Chaozu, it's not so different as it is to say Kuririn rushing out against Super Boo on the lookout. I mean, if you're going to die, may as well go down fighting even if it's hopeless, right?

Kuririn's actions was actually to buy more time for the others.

[ABED]

My issue isn't that he's weak and doens't help out much during battles, it's that except for his debut, he doesn't have much of a personality beyond his co-dependent relationship with another character. He's a sweet guy, but that's it. At the tournament, he's endearingly dumb and his insistence that he's not bald because he has one hair is very funny. Where did that character go?

[Gyt Kaliba]

Kuririn's actions was actually to buy more time for the others.

He still went in knowing he was going to die though. I don't really see the fault in any of the warriors wanting to at least go down knowing they tried, even in the face of pointlessness.

[rereboy]

Trivia: As far as I can tell, Jiaozi never won a single on-screen battle in the entirety of the manga.

He never even talked directly to Goku in the entire manga.

[Jaetinh]

He's pretty useless, I wish Toriyama made better use of him. Even though he's not of much use and pretty weak, I still consider him a member of the core/original Z-group. Honestly it ticks me off when he's not being included in games, like Attack of the Saiyans. I grew up watching Goku, Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu as the main group, those five were a big part of my childhood so yeah, he might be useless but he's still a character I like.

[Insertclevername]

I think he might have been set up as some kind mirror of Kuririn, since both are sidekicks to two more capable fighters. However, I think Toriyama changed his mind on his development in favor of shifting the story towards Gokuu and Piccolo, thus relegated him as just Tenshinhan's friend and eventually another member of the "humans" when we get into the Z portion. It's strange since his design and concept is quite remarkable so I couldn't imagine him always being intended to be such a throwaway.

[TheZFighter]

I've always been a very big fan of the "Z Fighters group". Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Chaozu and Yajirobe and, later on, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta and, to a much, much lesser extent, Goten and Trunks. Despite the Dragon Ball series very much being the "Goku and his Saiyan buddies show", I will always have a soft spot for the Earthlings. Yamcha, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Chaozu and Yajirobe.

I'm not exactly sure what it is I like about them. I mean, I think they're all great looking characters, but they've never really been the show's main stars. I think what I like about them is not just their unused potential, but also the mystery surrounding them and their past. All of them were really strong when they made their debut. I mean, Yamcha is just a 16 year old wandering the desert with a shapeshifting cat-like creature, for some reason, and just so happens to be strong and a competent martial artist. Krillin, like Goku, is really strong at a young age and has spent the majority of his childhood living at a Monk temple training. Tenshinhan, for a start, has THREE EYES (!!!), is also incredibly strong, and has been known to be training with the Crane Hermit and Tao since his childhood (not sure if that scene was filler or not, though), plus his relationship with Chaozu. Yajirobe was a wandering samurai with a cool sword, who again, was really strong, and climbed Korin Tower. As the series progressed a lot of these characters just faded into the background, fair enough, but they still had enough about them to wet my appetite.

Chaozu is another one who I've always liked and had an interest in. Just look at his appearance. He is so unique looking. He is tiny, has pale white skin, bright red cheeks and a big head. He has psychic/ telekinetic powers somehow, and has been training in martial arts from a young age. He has some cool moves, like Dodonpa, his psychic/ telekinetic powers and his spinning head-butt thing. He has this great, unexplained companionship with Tenshinhan, and again, at the time of his debut, he was pretty strong. At the time of his debut, I also found Chaozu really funny with his one, long hair (which still makes me laugh to this day), and his problems with numbers.

Compared to a lot of Dragon Ball's big hitters, Chaozu is completely useless. In fact, even by the standards of other Earthling characters, he is useless, but for some reason I saw enough in him to have maintain and affinity for the character all this time. I think it is a real shame that the Earthling characters were pushed to the sides, personally. I think all of them had potential to be a lot more than what they were.

[fadeddreams5]

I kind of wish Chaotzu and Tien developed some synchronizing ki attacks so they could fight together as, almost, a single entity.

[precita]

The difference between Chiaotzu and the other humans is easy:

- Krillin is a main character throughout pretty much the entire series. He does start to fade to the sidelines in the Buu saga but since it was the last manga saga it doesn't matter.

- Yamcha always sticks around because he was the first male sidekick companion, he even pre-dates Krillin, and he was there since the very beginning. Despite him not being as strong a fighter, its clear Toriyama always kept him around because he was literally one of the first main characters introduced. How are you going to exclude a guy who was there since the very beginning?

- Tien was also pretty much a major character throughout his introduction, the King Piccolo arc, the final tournament and into DBZ. Aside from getting killed by the Saiyans, he manages to stick around into the Cell saga and fights Cell, the Cell Jr's, etc. His role in the Buu saga for that moment was great

- Yajirobe has always been more comic relief, so when he's "retired" from fighting it actually makes sense.

[TheZFighter]

Not disputing any of that. Just for me the Earthlings have always been some of my favourite characters, and that includes Chaozu, despite him clearly being completely pointless.

[precita]

I'm kinda confused why he was even shown in the Cell saga. For example once the Androids show up Tien leaves Chiaotzu at Kame House. Then after the the fight with 18, Tien goes to pick up Chiaotzu to bring him somewhere else. Which makes little sense because the entire main cast was at Kame house at the time. Then he gets no appearances afterward because Tien is with the cast, then the Cell games begin and Chiaotzu doesn't go with them either.

Like where the hell was he? After Freeza came to Earth Chiaotzu disappeared into obscurity for the rest of the saga. Even Oolong got more screentime than Chiaotzu!

[Blade]

My biggest question has to be 'why does Chiaotzu have to have a point?'

I mean, we know that Toriyama didn't really have a longitudinal approach to writing the series, so I think it would be crass, and a little bit ridiculous to boot, for him to create each and every character with a long-term goal or purpose.

Chiaotzu was introduced as Tenshinhan's friend and training partner, and that's the role that he predominantly played throughout the story and continues to play now. Why does he need to be anything more? Sure, he served as a minor antagonist for a little while, and then was a good emotional foil for Ten, but surely weaving him into the plot any more for the sake of it would have been trite?

I mean, Toriyama could have just dropped him altogether like he did Lunch - but would that really have been any better? Would Dragonball have been better if Chiaotzu had a couple more on-screen fights? If he died a few more times? If he unlocked a new, crazy transformation? Nah - I much prefer his minor-supporting role as a legacy character in a rich and ever-expanding Dragon Universe. I'd much rather hear more about Beerus, Whis, Vados and Champa right now than see Chiaotzu thrown a plot bone or two.

[FoolsGil]

My biggest question has to be 'why does Chiaotzu have to have a point?'

I mean, we know that Toriyama didn't really have a longitudinal approach to writing the series, so I think it would be crass, and a little bit ridiculous to boot, for him to create each and every character with a long-term goal or purpose.

Chiaotzu was introduced as Tenshinhan's friend and training partner, and that's the role that he predominantly played throughout the story and continues to play now. Why does he need to be anything more? Sure, he served as a minor antagonist for a little while, and then was a good emotional foil for Ten, but surely weaving him into the plot any more for the sake of it would have been trite?

I mean, Toriyama could have just dropped him altogether like he did Lunch - but would that really have been any better? Would Dragonball have been better if Chiaotzu had a couple more on-screen fights? If he died a few more times? If he unlocked a new, crazy transformation? Nah - I much prefer his minor-supporting role as a legacy character in a rich and ever-expanding Dragon Universe. I'd much rather hear more about Beerus, Whis, Vados and Champa right now than see Chiaotzu thrown a plot bone or two.

There's a clear difference between "legacy" characters Puar Oolong and Launch from Chaozu: Puar, Oolong , and Launch weren't completely pathetic or a waste of panel background from when they were first introduced.

[Blade]

My biggest question has to be 'why does Chiaotzu have to have a point?'

I mean, we know that Toriyama didn't really have a longitudinal approach to writing the series, so I think it would be crass, and a little bit ridiculous to boot, for him to create each and every character with a long-term goal or purpose.

Chiaotzu was introduced as Tenshinhan's friend and training partner, and that's the role that he predominantly played throughout the story and continues to play now. Why does he need to be anything more? Sure, he served as a minor antagonist for a little while, and then was a good emotional foil for Ten, but surely weaving him into the plot any more for the sake of it would have been trite?

I mean, Toriyama could have just dropped him altogether like he did Lunch - but would that really have been any better? Would Dragonball have been better if Chiaotzu had a couple more on-screen fights? If he died a few more times? If he unlocked a new, crazy transformation? Nah - I much prefer his minor-supporting role as a legacy character in a rich and ever-expanding Dragon Universe. I'd much rather hear more about Beerus, Whis, Vados and Champa right now than see Chiaotzu thrown a plot bone or two.

There's a clear difference between "legacy" characters Puar Oolong and Launch from Chaozu: Puar, Oolong , and Launch weren't completely pathetic or a waste of panel background from when they were first introduced.

I don't see the difference - perhaps you'd be willing to expand on that? Chiaotzu was a minor antagonist who happened to have a close association to another character who went on to have a bigger role, I really don't understand how that makes him 'a waste of panel background'.

You haven't really given any sort of justification to your argument, so quite frankly, it's quite difficult for me to respond to you without simply repeating myself.

[FoolsGil]

My biggest question has to be 'why does Chiaotzu have to have a point?'

I mean, we know that Toriyama didn't really have a longitudinal approach to writing the series, so I think it would be crass, and a little bit ridiculous to boot, for him to create each and every character with a long-term goal or purpose.

Chiaotzu was introduced as Tenshinhan's friend and training partner, and that's the role that he predominantly played throughout the story and continues to play now. Why does he need to be anything more? Sure, he served as a minor antagonist for a little while, and then was a good emotional foil for Ten, but surely weaving him into the plot any more for the sake of it would have been trite?

I mean, Toriyama could have just dropped him altogether like he did Lunch - but would that really have been any better? Would Dragonball have been better if Chiaotzu had a couple more on-screen fights? If he died a few more times? If he unlocked a new, crazy transformation? Nah - I much prefer his minor-supporting role as a legacy character in a rich and ever-expanding Dragon Universe. I'd much rather hear more about Beerus, Whis, Vados and Champa right now than see Chiaotzu thrown a plot bone or two.

There's a clear difference between "legacy" characters Puar Oolong and Launch from Chaozu: Puar, Oolong , and Launch weren't completely pathetic or a waste of panel background from when they were first introduced.

I don't see the difference - perhaps you'd be willing to expand on that? Chiaotzu was a minor antagonist who happened to have a close association to another character who went on to have a bigger role, I really don't understand how that makes him 'a waste of panel background'.

You haven't really given any sort of justification to your argument, so quite frankly, it's quite difficult for me to respond to you without simply repeating myself.

Why should I expand my speech? we all watch the same series, why should I explain the obvious?

[Blade]

Why should I expand my speech? we all watch the same series, why should I explain the obvious?

I have no idea how you've managed to go two years and amass so many posts on this forum with that attitude. My original point still stands, and until you can contribute a counter argument where you elucidate your assertions, I wont be engaging with you further on the matter.

[FoolsGil]

Why should I expand my speech? we all watch the same series, why should I explain the obvious?

I have no idea how you've managed to go two years and amass so many posts on this forum with that attitude. My original point still stands, and until you can contribute a counter argument where you elucidate your assertions, I wont be engaging with you further on the matter.

Well I'm so glad we've come to terms!

[B]

Why should I expand my speech? we all watch the same series, why should I explain the obvious?

Because... it's not obvious? Chaozu had a role to play and he played it. This entire thread is essentially Monday-morning quarterbacking, backseat driving, or whatever analogy you prefer. I never had a moment where I was watching/reading Chaozu and thought "wait, is that it?" as this thread seems to be implying it's outrageous he didn't do more.

If anything, the monkey Goku says "hi" to Chapter 1 was completely pointless after his debut. There being seven Dragon Balls instead of, say, five, is completely pointless. We would still get the gist of how the Dragon Balls work if there were only five of them. Do you see how arbitrarily and easily I am doing this?

[Gaffer Tape]

Unlike the monkey from Chapter 1, Chaozu is displayed like a main character. The monkey is not introduced as a dark counterpart to another main character. The monkey does not appear on chapter title pages with the other main characters. The monkey does not appear on countless posters, t-shirts, and other merchandise alongside the rest of the main characters. The monkey is not included in confrontations with main villains. The monkey does not die alongside other main characters. The monkey does not get to go train with multiple gods. Chaozu is completely different from the monkey from Chapter 1. Chaozu is a main character. The monkey is not. Neither is given anything to do. For a character that appears in one panel, that's okay. For a main character, it's not.

[Blade]

Unlike the monkey from Chapter 1, Chaozu is displayed like a main character. The monkey is not introduced as a dark counterpart to another main character. The monkey does not appear on chapter title pages with the other main characters. The monkey does not appear on countless posters, t-shirts, and other merchandise alongside the rest of the main characters. The monkey is not included in confrontations with main villains. The monkey does not die alongside other main characters. The monkey does not get to go train with multiple gods. Chaozu is completely different from the monkey from Chapter 1. Chaozu is a main character. The monkey is not. Neither is given anything to do. For a character that appears in one panel, that's okay. For a main character, it's not.

Chiaotzu has never been billed or portrayed as a main character. At best, he's been a utlised as a minor antagonist and, then subsequently, a supporting or ensemble cast character. Following his introduction, his main role was to provide emotional levity for Tenshinhan through his deaths against Piccolo and Nappa and his defeat to Tao Pie Pie.

He served his role and was kept around as a legacy character. I don't see any problem with that - would you really have rather had more Chiaotzu than be introduced to Gohan and Vegeta and see their development on Namek? Or slim-down Future Trunks' backstory? Or cut out Goten? Really? Seriously?