Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:32 am

soppa saia people wrote:
s841 wrote:I said their skin not race. Is there skin not white?
Yes
That's kind of asinine (also, remember how much people still lose it over Goku's more manga-accurate skin tone in GT?). In the anime, as in many anime, their skin tones are quite white-appearing. I'm not entirely sure why that became a convention of the medium (other than its roots in Western animation), but it is.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by Kid Buu » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:11 am

Well, do you know what tokenism is? It's generally when a minority is included to show diversity. A famous reference of this is in South Park, where the only black kid in the school is literally called Token.

In the context of this joke, Piccolo is the only "coloured" person in the group, and therefore he is the token black guy.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by TheKingOfKamehamehas » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:54 am

Chris Sabat voices him with a really deep voice and a general stereotype is that black people have deep voices even though I don't really find that true.
He also is bald and it is more common for a black person to be have little hair than any other race.

Other than that I don't really know to be honest.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by precita » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:59 am

I never once thought Chris Sabat's Piccolo "sounds black" or whatever that means.

If anything Sabat does a good African-native accent with Mr. Popo and Commander Black of the Red Ribbon army.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by Big Momma » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:21 am

Even in my circle of friends, Piccolo was considered the "black guy". I never really saw a problem with it, because it's not meant in a bad/demeaning way, and Piccolo is awesome. I guess it has a little to do with him being the "minority" of the group (The only green guy), his (dub) voice which has that gruff and intensity of a tough black guy's voice, and his overall tough personality.

On top of that, WeeklyTubeShow's awesome parodies pushed that image further.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by TripleRach » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:26 am

I've seen Piccolo portrayed as "black" in fan parodies for as long as I've been in the fandom (since 2000). This was back in the old days before Youtube, so they were all written or image parodies.

Due to the timing of it, it's quite possible that people were still thinking more of Scott McNeil than Chris Sabat. Or some of those parodies might have predated Sabat entirely.

But that's all the unique insight I have to add about this.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by NeoKING » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:36 am

Herms wrote:Is this really a thing? I don't think I've ever encountered it before.
No, trust me, it is. Among a lot of other fellow black fans of the show, there's been a longstanding joke that Piccolo has always been the black guy of DBZ. I don't even know when we "realized" this to even make it a thing. But yeah, it is.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by swimtrunks » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:46 am

It was said a few years ago by a black comedian that Panthro of the ThunderCats was the unofficial black person of that cartoon.

I think the same applies to Dragon Ball Z.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by B » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:07 am

precita wrote:If anything Sabat does a good African-native accent with Mr. Popo and Commander Black of the Red Ribbon army.
What? He's not doing an accent in either of these instances. For Popo he just sounds like an idiot(possibly a little effeminate) and for Black he's just... well-spoken. I guess I don't hear enough Africans in my day-to-day?
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by Super Sonic » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:00 pm

swimtrunks wrote:It was said a few years ago by a black comedian that Panthro of the ThunderCats was the unofficial black person of that cartoon.

I think the same applies to Dragon Ball Z.
Well, Earle Hymen who voiced him is African American.

As for view from an actual African American, I admit I never really thought of it with Piccolo, aside from picturing Michael Jai White (Gamble in Dark Knight, Spawn) playing him in a live action adaptation.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considerd "The Black Guy"?

Post by Kuririn Fan » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:15 pm

successoroffate wrote:He's known as "Big Green" on the streets.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:09 pm

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by Thouser » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:31 pm

Lunatic Fringe wrote:basically a meme along with ... Popo being a racist caricature ... so it's safe to say that it's not something that you're supposed to approach with a studious curiosity.
Popo being a racist caricature isn't a meme or joke, it's just a fact. He has big round white eyes, black skin, and big red lips: all elements seen together in racist "darky" iconography (such as the kind seen here: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blac ... o_list.jpg).

It's not like this iconography was unknown in Japan, either (http://tomos.exblog.jp/4398257/).

(Racist images in the links, obviously)

In one of the tournament arcs, I'm pretty sure we see a black audience member drawn this way too, so it wasn't even just Popo either.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:56 pm

Thouser wrote:In one of the tournament arcs, I'm pretty sure we see a black audience member drawn this way too, so it wasn't even just Popo either.
Yes it's just before Goku meets up with the others at the 22nd Tournament.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by TheZFighter » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:13 pm

I've always considered him "The Green Guy", personally.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by precita » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:28 pm

I think its telling for a Japanese anime to include so many different races.

You have Indians with Nam, Native Americans with Uppa and Bora, you have Russians with Suno and her family, etc. I think Toriyama did a good job in putting different races of people in the show, something most anime doesn't do.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:05 pm

precita wrote:I think its telling for a Japanese anime to include so many different races.

You have Indians with Nam, Native Americans with Uppa and Bora, you have Russians with Suno and her family, etc. I think Toriyama did a good job in putting different races of people in the show, something most anime doesn't do.
Most of those are horrible stereotypes, though.

Which I'm not going to hold against Toriyama too much. Japan was very late, and still is, in some sense, in catching up to peer countries in terms of racial sensitivity, being very homogeneous itself. Though they received those images, the problematic elements wouldn't really resonate with them.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:09 pm

Cipher wrote:
precita wrote:I think its telling for a Japanese anime to include so many different races.

You have Indians with Nam, Native Americans with Uppa and Bora, you have Russians with Suno and her family, etc. I think Toriyama did a good job in putting different races of people in the show, something most anime doesn't do.
Most of those are horrible stereotypes, though. Though they received those images, the problematic elements wouldn't really resonate with them.
Oh no, they resonate. Japan is simply an extremely racist country, even against groups which are very similar to them culturally and genetically. To say nothing of South Asians and black people.
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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:13 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Oh no, they resonate. Japan is simply an extremely racist country, even against groups which are very similar to them culturally and genetically. To say nothing of South Asians and black people.
Now? Yes. In the '80s? Less so.

It's kind of a different cut from racism in Western countries, which is founded on years of systematic abuse and privilege, though, and from which those images stem. I've done some study abroads in Japan, so while this is anecdotal, my take was that--while, yes, racist--other races are approached with a kind of fear/novelty (obviously worse the more rural you go). Compared to Western countries, many people there have genuinely never met a person of another race.

I don't really know why I'm defending it, because it's still racist as f*ck. But, you know, context. It's a little different.

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Re: Why is Piccolo Considered "The Black Guy"?

Post by precita » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:28 pm

Cipher wrote:[
Most of those are horrible stereotypes, though.

Which I'm not going to hold against Toriyama too much. Japan was very late, and still is, in some sense, in catching up to peer countries in terms of racial sensitivity, being very homogeneous itself. Though they received those images, the problematic elements wouldn't really resonate with them.
Are they really though? Nam and Uppa are portrayed in a positive light. Nam is noble and wants to save his village from a drought, he and Roshi/Goku become great friends. Uppa and Bora want to defend their land from strangers like Tao (who is very Japanese), and other invaders. Also if it weren't for the hats and the snowy area, Suno and her family wouldn't seem any more based on Russians than any other village in the series.

Its not like they were saying, "Look at the stupid Indians!" or anything like that. Even General Black kills Red and takes command of the Red Ribbon army.

If anything I thought Mr. Satan was supposed to be a parody of how stupid Americans are compared to Japanese martial artists and how they're in denial. And even then Toriyama portrays Satan as a hero when he needs to be.

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