Goku vs Cell

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Goku vs Cell

Post by Vijay » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:32 am

Very few people talk abt this fight. More like its gets overshadowed by the Main Event (SSJ2 Gohan vs Cell)

I think it was a great fight.

Ep 179 (Studio Cockpit & Masunaga Keisugi) in particular was mind-blowing. Ever since Piccolo vs 17, this fight was by far most technical & fast-paced.

I dunno how to post pics, but Goku vs Cell had an overall high-quality feel (as opposed to drawings done by Uchiyama & Ebisawa Yukio for 60% of Goku vs Frieza)

Thoughts?

User avatar
MajinMan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1236
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:42 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by MajinMan » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:43 am

Best fight in the Cell arc hands down. The techniques, Goku's composure, and build up were all fantastic. I'm pretty sure that more than a "few people" talk about this fight. Much better than Gohan vs Cell, if you can even call that a fight.
Heroes come and go, but legends are forever.

60.

Rest in peace.

User avatar
Wezenheim
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:41 pm

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by Wezenheim » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:58 am

I agree with MajinMan, Goku vs. Cell was a good fight, and much more enjoyable than Gohan vs. Cell. Gohan turning SSJ2 is still a great moment, but I always prefer even (or at least close to even) fights. It actually seems to be fairly entertaining when the character fighting the "villain" is weaker than the villain: Goku vs. Vegeta (original fight), Vegeta vs. Reacoom, Goku (base) vs. Freeza (although SSJ Goku vs. Freeza is a fun watch), and Goku vs. Cell. To a certain extent, I'd throw Ultimate Gohan vs. Bootenks in there as well.

But yeah, Goku vs. Cell was pretty fun.

precita
Banned
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by precita » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:08 am

I like that it also gets 4 episodes. Its not just some quick thing, you get a good amount of screentime.

I also loved Cell using all the classic attacks against Goku.

User avatar
LuckyCat
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: The Sacred Land
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by LuckyCat » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:34 pm

MajinMan wrote:Best fight in the Cell arc hands down. The techniques, Goku's composure, and build up were all fantastic. I'm pretty sure that more than a "few people" talk about this fight. Much better than Gohan vs Cell, if you can even call that a fight.
I don't think you can really compare it to Gohan vs. Cell. Gohan is so small that would've been hard to choreograph a decent fight with Cell, so they probably just planned it so Goku did the cool looking fighting and Gohan was used for clean-up duty.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:15 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
MajinMan wrote:Best fight in the Cell arc hands down. The techniques, Goku's composure, and build up were all fantastic. I'm pretty sure that more than a "few people" talk about this fight. Much better than Gohan vs Cell, if you can even call that a fight.
I don't think you can really compare it to Gohan vs. Cell. Gohan is so small that would've been hard to choreograph a decent fight with Cell, so they probably just planned it so Goku did the cool looking fighting and Gohan was used for clean-up duty.
They did a great job choreographing Goku fighting in DB and nearly all of his opponents were bigger than he was.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
LuckyCat
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: The Sacred Land
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by LuckyCat » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:25 pm

ABED wrote:They did a great job choreographing Goku fighting in DB and nearly all of his opponents were bigger than he was.
It was well done, for sure. Was it on the level of Goku vs. Freeza or even Goku vs. Ma Junior? I'm not sure I could comfortably say so. Later when they had a chance with Gotenks, I can't think of any memorable punches, kicks or grabs, just interesting special attacks.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7865
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:26 pm

One of my favorite fights in the series mostly because it refrains from the "Now I'm stronger!" crap that turned the Z era into a borderline parody of itself at times.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:48 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
ABED wrote:They did a great job choreographing Goku fighting in DB and nearly all of his opponents were bigger than he was.
It was well done, for sure. Was it on the level of Goku vs. Freeza or even Goku vs. Ma Junior? I'm not sure I could comfortably say so. Later when they had a chance with Gotenks, I can't think of any memorable punches, kicks or grabs, just interesting special attacks.
I think so, definitely. Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao, Tenshinhan, Jackie Chun, and Son Gohan were all great fights, especially the first two.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
LuckyCat
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: The Sacred Land
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by LuckyCat » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:53 pm

ABED wrote:I think so, definitely. Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao, Tenshinhan, Jackie Chun, and Son Gohan were all great fights, especially the first two.
Well to each his own. At the point the Cell Games were held, the bar had been raised to adult-sized fights.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:04 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
ABED wrote:I think so, definitely. Goku vs. Piccolo Daimao, Tenshinhan, Jackie Chun, and Son Gohan were all great fights, especially the first two.
Well to each his own. At the point the Cell Games were held, the bar had been raised to adult-sized fights.
They had already been raised by the fights against Ma Junior and Vegeta, neither of which were surpass, I believe.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21389
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:18 pm

Goku vs Cell is an awesome fight and definitely one of the highlights of the franchise for me. Especially in regards to how it was animated. The fight was Studio Cockpit's finest work on the show for me.

User avatar
IDreamtIWasABee
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:45 am

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by IDreamtIWasABee » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:32 pm

The choreography's just okay, but the fight is powerful because of Cell's man-crush on Goku: they're the only two fighters in Z whose instinct is to fight for fun. And seeing Gero's hatred for Goku transmuted into Cell's affectionate desire to fight him "cuz he's worthy of me! The computer told me!" gives the whole thing the air of a bizarre, crypto-romantic blood feud.

The pre-Games confrontation in the ring is the best part, though.

"So this is your final form, huh?"
"...It is."

D'aw, Cell, you're all shy and seeking approval!

User avatar
90sDBZ
I Live Here
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:10 am

It's definitely one of the greats. I love how Goku enters the fight knowing he can't win but tries to give Cell hell anyway. I like how it builds up gradually, starting off with both fighters composed while fighting in the confinement of the ring in a throwback to the old DB Tournaments. Then Cell destroys the ring and all calmness and composure goes out the window, as both of them are clearly pissed at this point, yet are enjoying the fight at the same time. Goku's Warp Kamehameha was an awesome way of taking down a stronger opponent, and Cell technically only survived through a plothole.

The last portion of the fight is great too, because even though Goku's supposed to be exhausted, he still goes all out and lands some good hits before calling it a day.

User avatar
LuckyCat
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: The Sacred Land
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:29 pm

I think this fight has the single longest power up scene too. Both in Z and Kai.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by ABED » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:24 pm

It's a good fight, certainly one of the best of that arc, and one that's grown on me over the years. One of the things i like about it is that there's a logical reason why Goku fights even though he knows that he can't win, i just wish that Toriyama wrote that he told Gohan his plan before hand instead of Gohan and the audience/reader learning at the same time. There's no logical in story reason why Goku would keep that info from Gohan. The only reason I can think of is that Toriyama was trying to increase the drama for the reader.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
baneofdemon22
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:56 pm

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by baneofdemon22 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:20 pm

ABED wrote:It's a good fight, certainly one of the best of that arc, and one that's grown on me over the years. One of the things i like about it is that there's a logical reason why Goku fights even though he knows that he can't win, i just wish that Toriyama wrote that he told Gohan his plan before hand instead of Gohan and the audience/reader learning at the same time. There's no logical in story reason why Goku would keep that info from Gohan. The only reason I can think of is that Toriyama was trying to increase the drama for the reader.
That's what I think Toriyama was doing. There were already so many fights that we already knew the outcome, so I think he couldn't think of a better way to give the readers some surprise. We already knew there was no way Piccolo would ever defeat 17, because we still had Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, and Gohan in the ROSAT, and then when Vegeta and Trunks fought Cell, we knew they wouldn't have any chance because Goku and Gohan were still training.

Then again, that same logic still applies to Goku fighting Cell. He's the first one to fight, so of course, it wouldn't end with him, and Goku already said he was building Gohan up to surpass him. Nevermind! I got nothing! That's the reason why I knew that Gotenks could ever beat Super Boo because we still had Gohan training in the background.

In any case, I loved the fight! The choreography and animation was amazing! It was my favorite fight of the Cell arc. Although, my favorite parts of the Cell arc were the character moments like Goku and Gohan training in ROSAT and hanging out Post ROSAT.
Last edited by baneofdemon22 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
coola
I Live Here
Posts: 3360
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Poland

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by coola » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:23 pm

To be honest, i don't like this fight, anime version of it to be precise i watched it not too long after i played Super Butoden 2, and i thought it will be short fight, and boy i was wrong, it honestly dragged more for me than SSJ Goku vs Freeza, and half time i was "When it's Gohan turn? End it already" I liked manga version, but anime one..nope
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by Vijay » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:25 pm

LuckyCat wrote:I think this fight has the single longest power up scene too. Both in Z and Kai.
Guess you didnt watch Goku vs Frieza then (Frieza powering-up to 100%...counting literally :D )

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Goku vs Cell

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:17 pm

If I were to do a top ten favorite fights in the whole series, this one very well probably would make the cut somewhere in it. When I think of my all time favorite fights in the whole series, this one pops up in my mind immediately alongside heavy hitters like Goku vs Ma Junior, Jackie Chun vs Tenshinhan, Piccolo vs #17 or Goku, Gohan, Kuririn, and Yajirobe vs Vegeta. Whether it be anime or manga (saying that the anime dragged this fight out too long is crazy talk: that "honor" of course belongs squarely to the Goku vs Freeza fight), this is for me one of the pinnacle moments of the whole Cell arc and the latter portion of DB/Z in general.

The build up to it was also pretty fantastic (between Goku's talk with Karin and then his visiting Cell alone in the middle of the Cell Game arena, among other smaller details): there was a TON of hype for this fight among fans back in the day, and it in no way disappointed. Probably one of my single most oft-rewatched bits of the series during the very early bootleg/raw/fansub days, and one of the series moments that really solidified my love for it going ahead into the Boo arc stuff.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

Post Reply