Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

I just can't see Super Saiyan Blue boosting their power from a 6 to a 7. It's such a pitiful boost for a form.

I'd say it at least doubled their power.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I just can't see Super Saiyan Blue boosting their power from a 6 to a 7. It's such a pitiful boost for a form.

I'd say it at least doubled their power.

Look at Super Saiyan Grades 2 & 3, which are weaker than Super Saiyan 2 that gives a x2 boost. Super Saiyan Blue isn't even supposed to be an entirely new form, it's a new upgraded version of regular Super Saiyan.

[Bullza]

But a 10-20% boost? It's paltry, especially considering Frieza knew that Goku was holding back, his unnerved and surprised reaction to when Goku turned into a SSJB and then him acting so cocky around Vegeta until he turned into a SSJB.

[ekrolo2]

But a 10-20% boost? It's paltry, especially considering Freeza knew that Goku was holding back, his unnerved and surprised reaction to when Goku turned into a SSJB and then him acting so cocky around Vegeta until he turned into a SSJB.

Not paltry for DB where a minuscule difference in power lets you bitch slap around your opponent with complete ease.

[saunasolmu]

Maybe it's that the higher the power level, the harder it is to make the same relative gains.

A regular guy who runs 100 meter in 20 seconds can easily cut 10% of his time with some training. A professional sprinter who runs it in 10 seconds can never hope to achieve 10% improvement, that'd completely crush the world record.

[Bullza]

Not paltry for DB where a minuscule difference in power lets you bitch slap around your opponent with complete ease.

I don't place any importance on that kind of thing. People always mention Vegeta and Cui or Dodoria but there's been greater differences between characters and they've still been more evenly matched.

I've seen people say that SSJB Goku or Vegeta can't be lower than 7 because they're supposed to be able to match Beerus.

Yet Goku and Piccolo had a power level a third of Raditz' and they still beat him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I don't place any importance on that kind of thing. People always mention Vegeta and Cui or Dodoria but there's been greater differences between characters and they've still been more evenly matched.

Not if you only go with the manga numbers.

[Draconic]

Not paltry for DB where a minuscule difference in power lets you bitch slap around your opponent with complete ease.

I don't place any importance on that kind of thing. People always mention Vegeta and Cui or Dodoria but there's been greater differences between characters and they've still been more evenly matched.

I've seen people say that SSJB Goku or Vegeta can't be lower than 7 because they're supposed to be able to match Beerus.

Yet Goku and Piccolo had a power level a third of Raditz' and they still beat him.

But with Raditz there are also a lot of circumstances for how they beat him: Gohan interfering, Raditz's obvious tail weakness, Piccolo's powerful Makankosapo. When they fought him hand to hand they stood no chance, but still manged to come out on top due to stuff neither side where really taking into account at first (Gohan being so powerful and stopping Raditz from killing Goku, Piccolo using his trump card and especially Goku DYING)

Vegeta vs Cui or Dodoria or Zarbon are different, since even though the gap was small, they stood no chance, as if they might as well have been in the hundreds' number wise.

[Kaboom]

Not if you only go with the manga numbers.

Dodoria doesn't have any manga numbers. Most characters don't.

When it comes to comparing close PL numbers, all the manga really offers is Kaio-Ken Goku versus Vegeta, and Vegeta versus Kwi. Both of which have substantially more than just "A > B" going on with them, so they're hardly proof of any idea or approach about comparing powers.

[Hugo Boss]

• Base Goku managed to destroy the huge energy ball from the merged ki blasts from SS Goku & Beerus with a punch, while he could barely hold it as a Super Saiyan (who was as strong as Super Saiyan God).
• Base Goku & Vegeta survived hits from Beerus at full power.
• Beerus was interested in fighting base Goku & Vegeta after seeing that they have gotten stronger than they were before.
• In the manga, base Goku survived a ki blast in the face from SSB Vegeta.

Most of these situations were obviously miracles, unless you think Base Goku is stronger than SS Goku. Heck, in the 3rd, Beerus is aware they can transform and become stronger as Super Saiyans, but even so Goku discards the idea. As far as I've seen, Goku doesn't know Beerus was lying when they fought.

[Noah]

Not if you only go with the manga numbers.

You don't consider Daizenshuu numbers?

[Bullza]

Here's a simple question for you all because I'm curious.

Who here thinks current base Goku is equal to (or stronger than) SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. What reason do you have to believe that?

And who thinks current base Goku is comfortably weaker than SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. Again what makes you think that?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Not if you only go with the manga numbers.

Dodoria doesn't have any manga numbers. Most characters don't.

When it comes to comparing close PL numbers, all the manga really offers is Kaio-Ken Goku versus Vegeta, and Vegeta versus Kwi. Both of which have substantially more than just "A > B" going on with them, so they're hardly proof of any idea or approach about comparing powers.

Wow, I thought that Zarbon's & Dodoria's numbers came from the manga for some reason. My bad.

Most of these situations were obviously miracles, unless you think Base Goku is stronger than SS Goku.

Of course base Goku isn't stronger than SS Goku, but his feat shows that base Goku can't be significantly weaker than SS Goku.

Heck, in the 3rd, Beerus is aware they can transform and become stronger as Super Saiyans, but even so Goku discards the idea. As far as I've seen, Goku doesn't know Beerus was lying when they fought.

It was the power that Goku & Vegeta showed at that moment in their base form that made Beerus wanting to fight them though.

Not if you only go with the manga numbers.

You don't consider Daizenshuu numbers?

I do, unless if I feel that they are contradictory. Nappa's 4000 for example is impossible to be true IMO.

Who here thinks current base Goku is equal to (or stronger than) SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. What reason do you have to believe that?

In BoG, Beerus says that Goku's power didn't decrease significantly after he lost SSG, and made no mention of any power boost about his SS form. Base Goku also fought as good, if not better, than SSG Goku did at full power against Beerus. In the FnF manga, we see SSG Goku behind base Goku when he attacks Whis, which implies IMO that base Goku is as strong as a Super Saiyan God. Dragon Ball Heroes also calls the powered-up base Goku from FnF a Saiyan that has surpassed God.

As I mentioned before, Super has even more indications that this is the case:

• Base Goku managed to destroy the huge energy ball from the merged ki blasts from SS Goku & Beerus with a punch, while he could barely hold it as a Super Saiyan (who was as strong as Super Saiyan God).
• Base Goku & Vegeta survived hits from Beerus at full power.
• Beerus was interested in fighting base Goku & Vegeta after seeing that they have gotten stronger than they were before.
• In the manga, base Goku survived a ki blast in the face from SSB Vegeta.

The only things against this idea is base Goku almost dying from Beerus' full power ki blast (which should be perfectly possible even if Goku is a 6 & Beerus is a 10, based on what we've seen in the manga), Whis' tree comparison (which doesn't have to be taken that literally IMO), and Super Saiyan being stated to be useful enough to keep them from not dying during Whis' training (but we aren't told exactly how useful it would have been). The last two also come from Super only, so they can be ignored IMO if they seem too contradictory since they are not Toriyama's.

[Bullza]

Well we know base Goku is Incredibly powerful but I wouldn't say all those things necessarily mean he's as strong as he was as a SSJG.

We've got Goku questioning if Vegeta was stronger than himself after he'd trained for 6 months. So Vegeta would have gone from a 1 to a 6 in 6 months but then with another 4 months of training and him obtaining a new form he then only went from a 6 to a 7.

There's Whis' comparison of them to Beerus.

Like I said earlier, Frieza knew Goku was holding back and yet still acted unnerved when Goku turned into a SSJB.

There's a weakened Golden Frieza who couldn't even hurt SSJB Goku being confident that base Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance.

Then the idea of this new SSJB form giving the most pathetic boost in power of all time and that surely not being the intention.

[GodVegetto91]

Well we know base Goku is Incredibly powerful but I wouldn't say all those things necessarily mean he's as strong as he was as a SSJG.

We've got Goku questioning if Vegeta was stronger than himself after he'd trained for 6 months. So Vegeta would have gone from a 1 to a 6 in 6 months but then with another 4 months of training and him obtaining a new form he then only went from a 6 to a 7.

There's Whis' comparison of them to Beerus.

Like I said earlier, Freeza knew Goku was holding back and yet still acted unnerved when Goku turned into a SSJB.

There's a weakened Golden Freeza who couldn't even hurt SSJB Goku being confident that base Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance.

Then the idea of this new SSJB form giving the most pathetic boost in power of all time and that surely not being the intention.

Trust me, a 25% difference is HUGE. Way larger than you'd think! Remember this is the Godly Ki world where 25% can equal hundreds of billions/trillions on the power level scale. Trust me. All the things stated by the guy above me is true. There's more evidence to suggest that Base Goku is as strong as SSJG then he is not.
Well for what it's worth.
I've got 1% Beerus>Super Vegito (Buu Arc) now if we go by that. (And assuming it's true ofcourse) then 15% of Beerus means over 15 Super Vegito's Difference! Between SSJG Goku (60%) and SSGSS Goku (75%)
And we all know how high Super Vegito's Power Level is..
Obviously in the HIGH Billions at the least! And that's at least 15 times as much as a difference.

[apex_pretador]

I think Piccolo and Gohan are too far from Shisami and close to Tagoma on your list. Can't you consider something around 60,000?

Any reason for not following the official Super Saiyan multiplier?

There wasn't anything shisami could do to non powered-up gohan.
.
.



As for super saiyan multiplier , gohan can just not follow it, as SS is just a way to bring him closer to his ultimate self. His super saiyan form didn't seem to be even around 7-8x , let alone 20x or 50x.

Goku & vegeta used SSB, which was a huge boost, so their multiplier is larger

Shisami - 40,000
Tagoma - 100,000
Ginyu - 120,000
Piccolo - 80,000
Gohan - 80,000, SS 400,000 , FP - 500,000 (ultimate/mystic)
Freeza - 530,000
Final form freeza - 4 Million
Golden freeza - 120,000,000
Base god goku - 5 Million
SSB goku - 100,000,000 (20x)
Krillin / ten - 15,000
Roshi - 2000


Scale : Freeza FP = 120 million

And Gotenks? 100.000?

Gotenks is definitely above ginyu, around 200,000 seems fine. He can't be very far off gohan.

[apex_pretador]

Here's a simple question for you all because I'm curious.

Who here thinks current base Goku is equal to (or stronger than) SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. What reason do you have to believe that?

And who thinks current base Goku is comfortably weaker than SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. Again what makes you think that?

Base goku is between SS BoG goku & SSG BoG goku. His ki was said to be bigger than ever in the fight vs freeza.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well we know base Goku is Incredibly powerful but I wouldn't say all those things necessarily mean he's as strong as he was as a SSJG.

But these feats & statements place him really close to SSG, if not above it by the time FnF happened.

We've got Goku questioning if Vegeta was stronger than himself after he'd trained for 6 months. So Vegeta would have gone from a 1 to a 6 in 6 months but then with another 4 months of training and him obtaining a new form he then only went from a 6 to a 7.

Vegeta didn't make normal gains, he drew out his dormant SSG powers, that's why he got so powerful all of a sudden.

There's Whis' comparison of them to Beerus.

Which doesn't say much, other than Beerus been much stronger than Goku & Vegeta.

Like I said earlier, Freeza knew Goku was holding back and yet still acted unnerved when Goku turned into a SSJB.

Of course he did, it's a big increase in power.

There's a weakened Golden Freeza who couldn't even hurt SSJB Goku being confident that base Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance.

Freeza wasn't that confident, he was nervous when saying these things. Base Vegeta was also able to hit Freeza's full-power ki blast (according to the script) & change its direction to his own liking without any effort. I believe that base Vegeta was still weaker than Freeza, but not extremely weaker.

Then the idea of this new SSJB form giving the most pathetic boost in power of all time and that surely not being the intention.

Now you just don't like the boost. Vegeta used SSB with a surprise attack against base Goku, and Goku survived the ki blast in his face without any scratch. Vegeta was most likely not using his full power, but it still says a lot.

[Khin]

Here's a simple question for you all because I'm curious.

Who here thinks current base Goku is equal to (or stronger than) SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. What reason do you have to believe that?

And who thinks current base Goku is comfortably weaker than SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. Again what makes you think that?

Base goku is between SS BoG goku & SSG BoG goku. His ki was said to be bigger than ever in the fight vs freeza.

Post God SSj Goku and SSjG Goku are equals.

[apex_pretador]

Here's a simple question for you all because I'm curious.

Who here thinks current base Goku is equal to (or stronger than) SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. What reason do you have to believe that?

And who thinks current base Goku is comfortably weaker than SSJG Goku from BoG/saga. Again what makes you think that?

Base goku is between SS BoG goku & SSG BoG goku. His ki was said to be bigger than ever in the fight vs freeza.

Post God SSj Goku and SSjG Goku are equals.

the difference between Base beyond god goku & gold freeza was implied to be HUUUUUUUUUGE by everyone who can sense ki.
Even goku & vegeta were really worried.
SSG must be at least around half of beerus to give him a fight & entertain him. Simply put, SSB must be atleast 2x SBG , for obvious reasons, but it can't be anywhere near beerus.