Bullza wrote:Thinking more about it now I think perhaps the difference between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue has something to do with this whole thing about powering up their Ki without letting it leak out because the first time they did that was when the SSJB tease happened.
Is the difference just that Super Saiyan Gold is them turning SSJ when letting their Ki leak out and Super Saiyan Blue is them turning SSJ without letting their Ki leak out. Thus they're keeping more power without it going to waste and that's why SSJB is stronger. And by not letting their Ki leak out is that also why Krillin, Gohan and the others couldn't sense Goku once he turned into a SSJB.
I think that's precisely the case, like SSGSS uses 100% of ki within body, while SS uses 50% and the other 50% are wasted.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:The only reason why Goku transformed is to force Frost to transform into his Final Form.So Goku used his regular SSj which doesn't have any strain which the Blue form likely have.In this tournament,you need to save your energy as much as you can.
Why would the blue form put more strain on the body?
No. He can sense god ki in any form, but he only gains god ki when he uses his SSJB form.
Beerus said that he'd absorbed the power of a God into himself so that it was his to keep, that was supposed to why he was so much more powerful in base and SSJ form even after SSJG disappeared.
So it should be something he has permanently and why he can sense God Ki even in base form.
Once he transforms everybody states that they can no longer sense Goku's ki. So he has normal ki in all of his other forms.
But does that have something to do with him building up his Ki without letting it leak out so they have nothing to sense instead.
Either way him powering up that specific way without leaking his Ki is a vital part of him being able to become a SSJB.
Bullza wrote:Beerus said that he'd absorbed the power of a God into himself so that it was his to keep, that was supposed to why he was so much more powerful in base and SSJ form even after SSJG disappeared.
So it should be something he has permanently and why he can sense God Ki even in base form.
Which simply means he kept that power. That doesn't mean he kept the god ki. He didn't. Once he reverted to SSJ it was specifically stated that his ki could be sensed. That wasn't the case when he was a SSJG. As I've said before, he can sense god ki, but he himself doesn't have it unless he's using his SSJB form as that's the only form of his where his ki can't be sensed by people who aren't gods.
But does that have something to do with him building up his Ki without letting it leak out so they have nothing to sense instead.
Either way him powering up that specific way without leaking his Ki is a vital part of him being able to become a SSJB.
I don't know. All I do know is that he doesn't have god ki in any form aside from his SSJB form.
Honestly, all the interpretations about how Super Saiyan is supposed to work now compared to Super Saiyan Blue/ Saiyan Beyond God/ Battle of Gods Super Saiyan and especially the whole 7:10:15 ratio have some kinda holes comparatively to the ki-sensing stuff we have been shown in Battle of Gods and revival of F. Best to drop it until the arc is over, lest incur in some gratuitous headaches.
So how does Goku or Vegeta utilising their God Ki actually benefit them in battle?
If Goku is as strong as a SSJG without Godly Ki because he'd absorbed the power and SSJB is Goku turning into a Super Saiyan while not letting his Ki leak out. Then what's the point of Godly Ki?
Aside from him not being able to be sensed what else does it actually do for him?
Bullza wrote:So how does Goku or Vegeta utilising their God Ki actually benefit them in battle?
If Goku is as strong as a SSJG without Godly Ki because he'd absorbed the power and SSJB is Goku turning into a Super Saiyan while not letting his Ki leak out. Then what's the point of Godly Ki?
Aside from him not being able to be sensed what else does it actually do for him?
It's a better source of power. A simple concept that's been made more complicated than it needed to be. The movies treat it right by simply having it replace Goku & Vegeta's regular power by making God Ki the default one for everything. The shows gone out of its way to try and expand it, creating unnecessary issues where none existed before.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Does the blue SSG has the same power as the red SSG? Just rewatched Super and the movie and I see that Red has super healing and kind of nullifies energy attack. SO does SSGSS has the same ability?
I ask thou, WHY MUST IT BE ME? Your weakness is your strength.
Are you reading this? If you are, I just want to let you know that I'm a GREAT GUY.
Bullza wrote:So how does Goku or Vegeta utilising their God Ki actually benefit them in battle?
If Goku is as strong as a SSJG without Godly Ki because he'd absorbed the power and SSJB is Goku turning into a Super Saiyan while not letting his Ki leak out. Then what's the point of Godly Ki?
Aside from him not being able to be sensed what else does it actually do for him?
It's a better source of power. A simple concept that's been made more complicated than it needed to be. The movies treat it right by simply having it replace Goku & Vegeta's regular power by making God Ki the default one for everything. The shows gone out of its way to try and expand it, creating unnecessary issues where none existed before.
and what makes it a better source of power?
If movies (RoF) are to be followed, it is WORSE source of power. If not, even then, it is no better from what has been shown so far.
Botamo seemed a lot more resistant to Goku's attacks compared to the manga. He just took the Kamehameha instead of avoiding it. Makes me wonder how he could be beaten outside of tournament rules.
Frost in his third form looked to be on par on stronger than Goku in base form. He looks to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form possibly.
Goku went Super Saiyan and then at first seemed to easily have the upperhand over Frost in his final form which to me says there is a huge difference between Goku's base form and Super Saiyan form. If Goku was supposed to be as strong as SSJG as a SSJ then this is more evidence I'd say of his base form being weaker than SSJG.
Frost wins though I have no idea what happened.
Piccolo seems to be able to put up a good fight against Frost in his final form which suggests that he's possibly inbetween Goku's base and Super Saiyan form.
Current tier list. Note some placements don't change til they do something to warrant a change. So Gohan despite shaping up must remain where he is, til he fully earns a better spot.
Spoiler:
Super Special Awesome Tier
Super Saiyan Satan
Powerful Relevant Tier
Vados
Whis (Probably)
Beerus
Champa
Monaka
Godku
Godgeta
Golden Freeza (Fresh)
SSJ Goku
Frost Final Form
Golden Freeza (Weary)
Third Form Frost
Base Goku
Base Vegeta
First Form Frost
Botamo
LOLRAGETA
Unintentionally Funny Tier
Super Saiyan Videl
Jobber Cannon Fodder Losers Tier
Gotenks
Boo
Piccolo
Trunks
Goten
18 (No Kitchen)
Krillin
Tenshinhan
Yamcha
Chaozu
Buff Lion Guy
Regular Humans Tier
The Lion people
Bulma
The Kitchen
18 (Kitchen importance)
Dende
Dr. Briefs
Ms. Briefs
Baby That Will Never Ever Amount To Anything Tier
Pan
Feces Tier
The poop Whis stepped on
Shit and it's variations
Unfunny Irrelevant Doesn't Deserve Any Explaining Tier
Mai
Shuu
Pilaf
Garbage Jobber Fuck You Tier
Gohan
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Bullza wrote:Botamo seemed a lot more resistant to Goku's attacks compared to the manga. He just took the Kamehameha instead of avoiding it. Makes me wonder how he could be beaten outside of tournament rules.
He didn't jump away from the Kamehameha in the manga, it was the impact that threw him (Kuririn says "Is this it?", implying it would hurt a normal person).
"The life is the hardest video games of ever. Because you have only one life and the powers are kinda lame. And sometimes a stage takes years"
"The life is a game, the objective of the game is trying to find the objective of the game, and then, finish the game"
--by Ranely Jr
Even if Frost isn't at 100%, the fact that he didn't one shot Piccolo makes me think he (And by extension Gohan) received a big power boost after those 8 months.
Until they bother to explain it I will take SSJ as equal to SSB.
In Resurrection F he, Gohan and the others were supposed to be no match at all for Frieza in his first form and now here he is looking like he's possibly giving trouble to Frost in his final form who seems to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form.
Such a boost just reeks of bullshit though, he's going to get to God tier just by sparring with Gohan for a few months?
Vegeta didn't get that strong training for a longer period of time with people vastly more powerful.
I'd hope there would be more to it than him just sparring with Gohan but I doubt it.
Bullza wrote:Piccolo must have been boosted up a ton.
In Resurrection F he, Gohan and the others were supposed to be no match at all for Frieza in his first form and now here he is looking like he's possibly giving trouble to Frost in his final form who seems to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form.
Such a boost just reeks of bullshit though, he's going to get to God tier just by sparring with Gohan for a few months?
Vegeta didn't get that strong training for a longer period of time with people vastly more powerful.
I'd hope there would be more to it than him just sparring with Gohan but I doubt it.
Nothing new in Super.I'm honestly expecting this right from the start.Tagoma got gazillion times stronger in 4 months.'
Yeah with Goku and Frieza they gave a good reason as to why they got so much more powerful but Piccolo could follow more the route of Tagoma.
Then again at least with Tagoma because you don't really know for sure you could assume that he receives zenkais like the Saiyans.
With Piccolo it really wouldn't make any sense for him to grow so strong just like that so hopefully there's more to it than "I trained with Gohan for a few months".
Wait why ya guys think piccolo got a boost cause even the preview frost is kicking his ass.
Well you see him get hit by Frost for one thing and him still continue fighting. Considering the vastly weaker Frieza in his first form laid Gohan out with a single punch then he'd have to be.
Plus he's clearly dodging attacks and Frost is dodging his.
Frost in his first form should have been able to almost kill Piccolo from the Resurrection F arc with a single blow.
The new trend in Super is that if you trained with someone way stronger than you (Tagoma and Freeza,Whis and Vegeta etc.) you will get a massive boost.Base Gohan is already way stronger than Piccolo let alone when he regained his Ultimate state.This also happened in DBZ (Goku and Piccolo in Android Arc).But the Namekian Book of Legends powerup is still a possibility.
Botamo and Frost seem pretty weak. Since I don't know what's the deal with SSJ Goku, it's hard to make conclusions. This is, at the moment, really hard to guess. I hope they give us some power scaling lines.
For now I have Botamo weaker than SSJ2 tier, 1st form Frost between SSJ2 and SSJ3 tier and Assault Form Frost at SSJ3 tier.
Final Form Frost appears to be a huge boost, still I didn't see Goku take any damage. It's likely he didn't need to go SSJ to face Final Form Frost.
