Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Luso Saiyan wrote:At the same time, both fanbases arrogantly pretend they know better than the author of the respective franchises about what they created (and I'm not talking about power levels and ship lenghts).
Hey, it's not our fault we're right, and the creators don't know when to quit!
In slightly more seriousness, though, I did at least respect Lucas for ending it after six. Even though the prequels were terrible, and The Force Awakens was much better, I still kinda wish they'd just left it alone. Now the damn thing's never going to end unless it stops making money. No, my main problems with George Lucas are that he's a liar and a hypocrite. At least Toriyama is quite candid about the fact that he just makes this crap up on the fly, and there's no grand plan. Lucas is not able to admit that, even though it would make him look all the more impressive if he did. And it baffles me how someone can speak out so openly about film preservation and then do the stuff he does to his own films. It matters much less to me that he made a few crappy Star Wars films. Nobody's perfect.
No, the difference between Toriyama and Lucas is that Lucas has to shove down our throats that he knows best. He won't allow you to indulge in any other opinion or watch his movies in any other way than his true vision... or, rather, this year's true vision. Toriyama may have changed the ending for the Kanzenban, which I don't agree with, but at least it's not wiped from existence, even if it may or may not be wiped from ye olde official continuity.
Last edited by Gaffer Tape on Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
I agree with this. I'm not really a Star Wars person, but even as someone who isn't, I feel it's such an invasive franchise that it's transcended into a point of pop culture where everyone knows about it, even if they're not into it because of how inescapable Star Wars is. Dragon Ball doesn't have that kind of power.
precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
Neither is the genre of anime itself, it's a niche but with a dedicated following. It just so happens Dragon Ball is one of the highest grossing franchises in anime, as Star Wars is one of the biggest sellers in film.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
I agree with this. I'm not really a Star Wars person, but even as someone who isn't, I feel it's such an invasive franchise that it's transcended into a point of pop culture where everyone knows about it, even if they're not into it because of how inescapable Star Wars is. Dragon Ball doesn't have that kind of power.
But to be fair, Hollywood movies are much higher profile than animes, so of course Star Wars is bigger and better known. Dragon Ball will never reach that kind of popularity, but I think it's recognizable enough everywhere in the world. I mean, if you show somebody a picture of Goku, they can surely tell you he's the Dragon Ball guy, no matter where in the world that may be. In terms of anime, I don't think there is a better known one among even non-anime viewers or people who never even really watched Dragon Ball, which can be comparable to Star Wars, because, crazy at it might sound, there are people who never say Star Wars either but can tell you who Darth Vader is, or something like that.
precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
I agree with this. I'm not really a Star Wars person, but even as someone who isn't, I feel it's such an invasive franchise that it's transcended into a point of pop culture where everyone knows about it, even if they're not into it because of how inescapable Star Wars is. Dragon Ball doesn't have that kind of power.
But to be fair, Hollywood movies are much higher profile than animes, so of course Star Wars is bigger and better known. Dragon Ball will never reach that kind of popularity, but I think it's recognizable enough everywhere in the world. I mean, if you show somebody a picture of Goku, they can surely tell you he's the Dragon Ball guy, no matter where in the world that may be. In terms of anime, I don't think there is a better known one among even non-anime viewers or people who never even really watched Dragon Ball, which can be comparable to Star Wars, because, crazy at it might sound, there are people who never say Star Wars either but can tell you who Darth Vader is, or something like that.
I never said Dragon Ball would reach the heights of popularity of Star Wars, that's beyond unrealistic, add that to the fact unlike Star Wars Dragon Ball's native genre isn't film, its manga/anime and that style of art.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
I never said Dragon Ball would reach the heights of popularity of Star Wars, that's beyond unrealistic, add that to the fact unlike Star Wars Dragon Ball's native genre isn't film, its manga/anime and that style of art.
precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
Dragon Ball has almost certainly generated a total that's somewhere in the billions rather than the hundreds of millions; the 230,000,000 copies of the manga sold worldwide would probably bring the total above $1,000,000,000 by itself.
But, yeah, I'm sure Star Wars is a lot more popular on the whole, in basically every country except Japan and maybe a few odd exceptions here and there.
Princess Snake avatars courtesy of Kunzait, Chibi Goku avatar from Velasa.
If we're talking about with the confines of anime franchises, I'd say yes. No other anime/manga franchise has been as popular as Dragon Ball has and has still managed to continue to have the incredible recognition and fame that is has worldwide. There have been many fan comics, hundreds of fan fiction, several live action shorts and fan animated projects. I don't think any other anime franchise can boast about having the same amount love and dedication that Dragon Ball has had over the years, especially consideration the many years of lack of content that Dragon Ball went through after GT ended. I think Dragon Ball is the only anime franchise that has remained immensely popular since its debut in the West. Not even Pokemon has that claim to fame.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
As Lord Beerus said. I don't see any anime ever pulling BoG/RoF numbers in theaters. Even stuff like Akira or Ghost in the Shell are niche and mostly cult-followed, despite the great reception they have and the pretty recognizable names.
precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
Dragon Ball has almost certainly generated a total that's somewhere in the billions rather than the hundreds of millions; the 230,000,000 copies of the manga sold worldwide would probably bring the total above $1,000,000,000 by itself.
But, yeah, I'm sure Star Wars is a lot more popular on the whole, in basically every country except Japan and maybe a few odd exceptions here and there.
Draconic wrote:As Lord Beerus said. I don't see any anime ever pulling BoG/RoF numbers in theaters. Even stuff like Akira or Ghost in the Shell are niche and mostly cult-followed, despite the great reception they have and the pretty recognizable names.
Don't forget Pokemon: The First Movie. That still remains the highest grossing anime movie of all time in the West. But in this day and age, I can only see a Dragon Ball (Z) movie pulling in number similar to that. But it really depends on the marketing of the movie itself.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
MCDaveG wrote:I've heard somewhere and read in some articles some time ago, that Gundam is nicknamed ''The Japanese Star Wars'',
with it's masked enemies, the Newtype ''religion'' and beam sabers the mobile suits have.
Beyond just those superficial similarities, I'd say the comparison's a lot more apt just on the strength of how much cultural impact Gundam's had on Japan overall. Dragon Ball's definitely a big, big deal, but Gundam's in a class all by itself in terms of its impact and legacy both on the overall anime industry and on mainstream Japanese pop culture. But yeah, the fact that SW and Gundam are both actually within the same genre (space opera) also certainly helps cement the comparison by quite a lot.
Plus with the whole "Universal Century" vs "non-Universal Century" kerfuffle*, its not as if Gundam is without its own ridiculously divided fanbase either. Like Star Wars and George Lucas, Tomino is both the original creator AND a highly controversial figure within Gundam fandom. The FUNimation dub bullshit for DB only holds any real bearing on North America and a few other random English speaking territories (Australia, etc). It doesn't really mean jack to its native country of origin or anyplace else, and FUNimation are not in any way Dragon Ball's creators.
Any way you slice it, Gundam has always fit the "Star Wars of anime" bill WAY more than DB does or ever did.
*For the record, I firmly stand by the view that just about all or at least 99% of all non-UC Gundam is hot garbage.
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
precita wrote:Dragonball isn't even half as popular as Star Wars is. Do you people not realize how HUGE the Star Wars fanbase is? It goes back to the 70's, and the 3 movies are far more mainstream than anything out of the Dragonball franchise.
The Star Wars franchise has generated billions of dollars in revenue, you can't same the same for Dragonball.
While how big is Star Wars worldwide ? Like in Asia and the like ? But yeah Star Wars is much bigger then Dragon Ball.
And no I don't think DB is the SW of anime, Star Wars is a lot better, sells like hotcakes, and most know about.
Last edited by Soppa Saia People on Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.
These being two of my favorite franchises, I've made this comparison more than once. Typically asking myself the question "How the hell does a franchise this big get such half-assed re-releases?" (in reference to Funi's season sets and the SW special editions)
But I think a positive comparison can be made in terms of continuity. Both franchises have a base canon that is almost indisputable. For Star Wars, it's the episodic films. For Dragon Ball, it's the original manga. Then there's everything outside of that which is often debated in terms of canon. Before Disney's mass retcon of the Star Wars Expanded Universe (now "Legends"), there were plenty of contradictions in such material. This is also present in Dragon Ball, where we have filler, specials, movies, bonus manga material, and now additional series, which often contradict each other.
Looking back, maybe that wasn't such a positive comparison after all.
Dr. Casey wrote:
But, yeah, I'm sure Star Wars is a lot more popular on the whole, in basically every country except Japan and maybe a few odd exceptions here and there.
Japan loves Star Wars. Star Wars is one of the very few Western franchises that are big over in Japan. Episodes 1-3 and Force Awakens did well over in Japan.
I think that Dragon Ball and Star Wars are two completely different things. Yes they might have sci fi and aliens in them but when it comes to the whole story and characters, star wars is basically this expanded episodic universe with countless of spin offs, movies, books, comics and videos that doesnt have to limit itself to a specific main character.
Dragon Ball is ultimately about just one character whos name is Goku. Which means that Dragon Ball is more like the Superman of anime. Especially that DBZ could be considered one of the most influential anime that west has ever seen. DBZ had quite a big influence in Hollywood movies, actors, singers, celebrities etc. Even shows like Naruto or One Piece could never reach that level of influence. And just look at whats happening right now! Naruto already ended 2 years ago while Dragon Ball is still ongoing hah 30 year old series has surpass its claimed successor ahahaha. But anyway i doubt their going to stop there. Just wait till they announce the new Dragon ball movie or maybe a new series in the future if DBS is able to bring its pace up.
Protege wrote: Even shows like Naruto or One Piece could never reach that level of influence. And just look at whats happening right now! Naruto already ended 2 years ago while Dragon Ball is still ongoing hah 30 year old series has surpass its claimed successor ahahaha. But anyway i doubt their going to stop there. Just wait till they announce the new Dragon ball movie or maybe a new series in the future if DBS is able to bring its pace up.
Uhh... Two things: the original Naruto manga is done (anime is still going, unfortunately), but the story is continuing in Boruto (Ukyō Kodachi is wrting it and the art will be done by Mikio Ikemoto, though Masashi Kishimoto will be supervising). Also, One Piece HAS surpassed Dragon Ball, even Toriyama admits this.
Protege wrote: Even shows like Naruto or One Piece could never reach that level of influence. And just look at whats happening right now! Naruto already ended 2 years ago while Dragon Ball is still ongoing hah 30 year old series has surpass its claimed successor ahahaha. But anyway i doubt their going to stop there. Just wait till they announce the new Dragon ball movie or maybe a new series in the future if DBS is able to bring its pace up.
Uhh... Two things: the original Naruto manga is done (anime is still going, unfortunately), but the story is continuing in Boruto (Ukyō Kodachi is wrting it and the art will be done by Mikio Ikemoto, though Masashi Kishimoto will be supervising). Also, One Piece HAS surpassed Dragon Ball, even Toriyama admits this.
Of course it surpassed Dragon Ball when it has billion chapters and is never gonna end. Dragon Ball is still better.
hah 30 year old series has surpass its claimed successor ahahaha. But anyway i doubt their going to stop there. Just wait till they announce the new Dragon ball movie or maybe a new series in the future if DBS is able to bring its pace up.
