Who is older: Pan or Bra?

[Analytic]

While I prefer to stick to a manga-only viewpoint, I will take outside sources such as guidebooks in this situation. I also believe Bra is older in GT, correct?

[Kamiccolo9]

No, Pan has always been older. GT's character designers were just on crack.

[Nejishiki]

Daizenshuu 7's biographies lists Pan's birth in AGE 779 (She is 4 years old during the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai) and Bra's birth in AGE 778. However, the timelines in Daizenshuu 7 and GT Perfect File Vol. 1 lists Bra's birth in AGE 780.

[Grimlock]

I think this matter had already been solved... Pan is older, she was born in AGE 779. Bra is yet to be seen in Dragon Ball Super, as she is born in AGE 780.

[Cetra]

No, Pan has always been older. GT's character designers were just on crack.

I am curious about how you feel after you have noticed that Toriyama-san is the one who designed Bra like that.

[Kamiccolo9]

No, Pan has always been older. GT's character designers were just on crack.

I am curious about how you feel after you have noticed that Toriyama-san is the one who designed Bra like that.

That Toriyama was on crack? There's no need to white knight GT every chance you get. I'm no Toriyama-supremacist or anything.

[Cetra]

No, Pan has always been older. GT's character designers were just on crack.

I am curious about how you feel after you have noticed that Toriyama-san is the one who designed Bra like that.

That Toriyama was on crack? There's no need to white knight GT every chance you get. I'm no Toriyama-supremacist or anything.

That has nothing to do with me white knighting GT, interesting how people always try to throw the ball back. I am fairly answering like that in all situations. Also when it is about Super, etc. and people just try to blame the anime staff for anything.

[Kamiccolo9]

I neither watch nor defend Super. Perhaps, before lunging after anyone who dares to criticize GT, you could take note of that person's general views on the subject before subjecting them to your generalizations? I'm not the first person you've passive-aggressively replied to after a negative comment about GT.

[Cetra]

Perhaps, before lunging after anyone who dares to criticize GT, you could take note of that person's general views on the subject before subjecting them to your generalizations?

That is an incredibly unrealistic expectation. No one who actually replies in a forum on a daily basis really takes the time to read a lot of comments of a person first to get a view from that person. Also it is not like I have not seen any comments from you before. Still, that someone reads a post of a person and answers in a way the other one does not like does not mean it is automatically generalized. But we come to that a few lines later.

I'm not the first person you've passive-aggressively replied to after a negative comment about GT.

Kamiccolo, we can very well continue this if you insist. I can, if you want, also break down the behaviour you have repeatedly shown "in front" of other people. A behaviour that you might surely know also not everyone thinks of as the hottest. Something that, like all people, you are going to justify then like there is nothing wrong with it - and that is something I can very well generally say because there is like no person that does not do that, the only difference is how much are actually ready to at least criticise themselves; some are not ready to do that at all, some just a bit and some do that a lot. Et cetera. Or we can just leave it at that. Yet I am not really using that to criticize you, so you shouldn't do that as well.We are both not insulting - nor is my posting meant to be, so I think that is the most important thing (and I have seen some very different people here) and that is also why I can turn around and walk away, even if we do not agree about something. I am one of those people who are a bit complicated to talk with but I am actually very self-critical. I criticize myself way more than you can. My post was not "passive-aggressive" in the slightest. I have pointed out something to show a person that there is more to it than a person might think. Of course it had that "you have to look at it fair" flavour, but not to argue or anything. Especially as that (the fact that people do not look at stuff fair) is just a common way people are writing there posts whenever they want to write about something critically. So if there was some slight taste of "generalization" in this post it comes from the mere fact that some characteristics reappear in posts of people. And after 12 years of forum roaming I have seen a lot of them. Also, who is the one generalizing my comments now just because he has seen me liking GT? I have even explained this has nothing to do with GT per sé. Interesting though that you have ignored that after answering that you do not watch Super, like after that it would play no role anymore. Another trait of people I have noticed. So, yes, if there is some sort of generalization - not all generalizations in life come out of nothing.

I think that is all. No hard feelings.

[ryou766]

Pan. Though, I agree, GT did make Bra appear older than what she was.

[Kamiccolo9]

Feel free. I'm always open to legitimate criticism, and if it can improve my posting habits, all the better.

But, again, you seem to take it personally whenever someone criticizes any part of GT. I am not the only person you seem to have been triggered by in this way. Say what you will about me, but you have never seen me get offended over someone's view of a TV show.

[Anime Kitten]

Yes, Pan is technically older, but Bulla/Bra should be. She looks way older than GT portrays her.

[B]

While I prefer to stick to a manga-only viewpoint

Well, going by the manga only, we don't know who is older; they just show up in a timeskip and neither of them talk to each other.

I don't get guidebookaphobia. Why would they be made if you weren't supposed to use them?

[Grimlock]

But that's the interesting thing that I take for myself, I don't think they have to be followed. Guidebooks are there to help if there's a point unexplained or whatever. But if you want, you can ignore them completely, it's up to you. If a info from guidebooks contradicts the manga or themselves, then they are up for a debate and if it's truly valid to consider that contradictory information or not.

I don't take into consideration some info guidebooks bring, but others I do, and those that I take help me understand some plot points, you know. It's a very subjective matter.

[Anime Kitten]

And there are fans like me who just enjoy DB as is.

But that's mostly off-topic.

[Hellspawn28]

Toriyama design Bra to look older. I guess they wanted the show to fit with the current tends at the time. The GT characters designs are out dated in my opinion. If Toei did want to revist GT, they would need upgrade the character designs. Most of the main cast looks awful like Goten in my opinion.

[Anime Kitten]

To me, the character design is one of the best things in GT. Kinda ironic I guess.

[ryou766]

To me, the character design is one of the best things in GT. Kinda ironic I guess.

Even Vegeta's porno-stache?

[Anime Kitten]

Er...? Yeah, his mustache is awesome.

[Hitiro]

Daizenshuu 7's biographies lists Pan's birth in AGE 779 (She is 4 years old during the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai) and Bra's birth in AGE 778. However, the timelines in Daizenshuu 7 and GT Perfect File Vol. 1 lists Bra's birth in AGE 780.

Yeah, it's a bit weird but I would have to go with Pan being older purely down to it being in more than one place of reference. Furthermore Super seems to support this. Doesn't GT also make Pan out to be older than Bra despite their visual look too? I can't recall.

My post was not "passive-aggressive" in the slightest.

I think the issue here is it did come off as "passive-aggressive" even if you did not intend it to be as such. In your post you specifically made it sound as if Kamiccolo would possibly have a differing opinion on the subject had he known that it was Akira Toriyama who did Bra's drawing. I certainly read it as personal attack on his viewpoint in a way as it makes it sound as if he only cares about belittling GT with his response and that had he known that it was Akira Toriyama that did it, that he would not have said what he said. Basically you're judging the persons character which can be seen as an attack on the individual.

To me, the character design is one of the best things in GT. Kinda ironic I guess.

Really? I think her design is god awful. I'm not a fan of many of the character designs in the story apart from some of the bad guys. Even Goku's SSJ4, while I enjoy the premise, doesn't really sit well with me. It probably has something to do with the fact that it turns him into an adult even though he has a kids body in base. Maybe. But the design isn't my favourite transformation.