So are they God Level now or not?

[GodVegetto91]

Whis seems to think so. Vegeta disagrees.

When SSJ Goku was fighting with Black, Whis was clearly impressed by Black's power. even with all his martial arts background and awesome power. And he was impressed by SSJ2 Trunks aswell when he and Goku fought. But still the entire fight seems to scream NORMAL POWER to me for some reason. And even Vegeta revealed to Trunks that both Goku's and his own power far eclipses anything Trunks would imagine.

So who are we supposed to believe? The almighty Whis, who's a true expert on the art of fighting. Or.. Vegeta?

[Hero]

Whis seems to think so. Vegeta disagrees.

When SSJ Goku was fighting with Black, Whis was clearly impressed by Black's power. even with all his martial arts background and awesome power. And he was impressed by SSJ2 Trunks aswell when he and Goku fought. But still the entire fight seems to scream NORMAL POWER to me for some reason. And even Vegeta revealed to Trunks that both Goku's and his own power far eclipses anything Trunks would imagine.

So who are we supposed to believe? The almighty Whis, who's a true expert on the art of fighting. Or.. Vegeta?

If you believe in one base then Black is probably God tier for you. If you go with the two base idea (like me and a lot of people) then Goku and Vegeta are just using their normal ki and Goku is just a normal SSJ2.

As for Whis: Even at SSJ2 level, Trunks and Black are among the strongest people in the universe, and not far off how strong Goku was before the SSJG ritual, meaning they have the potential to be right up their with him if given a ritual or a few months of training with Whis.

[GodVegetto91]

Whis seems to think so. Vegeta disagrees.

When SSJ Goku was fighting with Black, Whis was clearly impressed by Black's power. even with all his martial arts background and awesome power. And he was impressed by SSJ2 Trunks aswell when he and Goku fought. But still the entire fight seems to scream NORMAL POWER to me for some reason. And even Vegeta revealed to Trunks that both Goku's and his own power far eclipses anything Trunks would imagine.

So who are we supposed to believe? The almighty Whis, who's a true expert on the art of fighting. Or.. Vegeta?

If you believe in one base then Black is probably God tier for you. If you go with the two base idea (like me and a lot of people) then Goku and Vegeta are just using their normal ki and Goku is just a normal SSJ2.

As for Whis: Even at SSJ2 level, Trunks and Black are among the strongest people in the universe, and not far off how strong Goku was before the SSJG ritual, meaning they have the potential to be right up their with him if given a ritual or a few months of training with Whis.

Well the point is, if battle of gods was anything to go by, there is a HUGE difference between Super Saiyan GOD Goku and any other super saiyan form that came before it. Including SSJ3 and even Vegetto. So if Trunks really is a "normal" SSJ2 than he would litterally be NOTHING impressive for Whis at all.. So if Whis is surprised by both SSJ2 Trunks and Black than that seems to scream "God Level" to me. but that doesn't explain why Goku went ssj3 against trunks and why Vegeta said that both him and Goku are WAY higher than what they've just shown these last few episodes.

[Savage68]

I can't tell. It's all starting to become seemingly random now. Goku and Trunks are even at SS2? But then Goku goes SS2 against Black and was like, going even with him? And why specifically did Goku use SS2? Black warranted that? So Goku could somehow guess that Black was stronger than SS1 but weaker than SS3? And Black has no kind of transformation (YET!!!), I'm assuming, just the form we see him in. So how fucking strong is he? This series is so bad with power levels, far worse than GT was because unlike GT, this show is constantly mixing these new DBS power levels with old DBZ ones and throwing everything out of wack.

[TheMikado]

I will post what I posted in another thread.

its possible God Ki acts like a light switch. Capable of being turned or or off at will including in the base form.
In the manga these are the forms.

God Ki off, SSJ off is regular Goku
God Ki off, SSJ on is SSJ Goku
God Ki on, SSJ off is SSG Goku (this is believed to be the second invisible base in the anime)
God Ki on, SSJ on. Is SSB Goku

The problem is that currently the only form in the anime that seems to infuse God Ki in it is SSB because they cannot be sensed but in the context of the manga makes no sense with SSG returning as it is essentially saying and further splits the fans that

1) Gokus God Ki is always on in base AND sensible by all
OR
2) Goku is now just very strong in base as his Ki can be sensed and the only form which has God Ki is SSB

So again because a scenario where the God Ki is on but SSJ is off appears in the manga, this leaves a gaping hole on whether this is possible or not at all in the anime or whether Goku/Vegeta have been using it invisibly all along.

Basically it boils down to whether you believe a form where God Ki without SSJ should exist in the Super anime.

So if people answer that, that would basically be the end of the conversation because the two viewpoints are not reconcilable. Either you believe this is a form that should exist/be used now or you don't. Is the anime right to omit this form or is the manga right to have this form?

The other problem is that the manga basically confirms that all characters save Hit, Vegeta, and Goku are well below SSG levels and even below SSJ3 BoG levels as there is nothing in the Manga to suggest that Goku's base is at SSJ3 levels at this point. Basically the story is almost radically different between the two just looking at the difference in power levels and it makes a sense of what's at stake change dramatically.

In the anime everyone is "God Tier" in the manga everyone is end of Z SSJ1 and below tier. Huge difference. Literally the difference between Gods and men.

[buutenks]

Black and trunks arent god level.

Untill black hurts ssj blue goku he isnt god level. And neither is trunks, since goku could easily ko him without ssj blue.

Vegeta even says that the power goku showed is nowhere near his real power.

Basically, goku was just toying with trunks and black, kinda like beerus toyed with ssj3 goku, except goku didnt go ssj blue and finger flick black back to the future.

[Hitiro]

Given the facts from the story so far it's highly unlikely that Goku and Vegeta are God level in their base of SSJ forms. The reasons for this are:

-Beerus required 10% of his power to take out Rage Vegeta.
-SSJGod Goku "is"/"should be" more powerful than Rage Vegeta otherwise why would Beerus be enjoying fighting a weaker opponent?
-SSJB Goku with KKx10 isn't superior to Beerus. Going from the above stuff SSJB should not be able to push Beerus to 10% of his power otherwise Beerus would require his full power to battle SSJB Goku with KKx10.

So we should have either of these two scenarios:

Scenario 1
SSJB Goku < Rage Vegeta < SSJGod Goku < Beerus 10% < SSJB Goku + KKx20 < Beerus ??%

Scenario 2
SSJB Goku < Rage Vegeta < Beerus 10% < SSJGod Goku < SSJB Goku + KKx20 < Beerus ??%

The base Saiyan's are still much stronger than they were previously however.