Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[DBZ Macky]

I'm saying SS3 gotenks > SS3 goku. SS3 is stated to be a peak of a saiyan's power level, and goku simply raised his peak. When SS2 vegeta raged, he powered up a lot, but that doesnt mean that base vegeta somehow became SS2 tier, no.

I think
Base goku < Freeza < Base gotenks < SS goku < SS gotenks = SS2 goku < SS3 gotenks < SS3 goku

So you're saying Goku reached some kind of SSJ3 Full Power? What would be the multiplier for that?
I think Gotenks and Gohan just got WAY weaker instead. Judging by Gohan's performance in RoF, this seems to be the case.

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

I'd be grateful if you could share your source for this.

[ZombieVito]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

Future Gohan:
Future Trunks (Mecha arc):
Future Vegeta:
Future Piccolo:
Goku (Mecha arc):

[Darkron2151]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

Future Gohan:
Future Trunks (Mecha arc):
Future Vegeta:
Future Piccolo:
Goku (Mecha arc):

[spoiler]-Future Time-

• Future Vegeta: 2.88
  -SSJ: 144
  *Future Vegeta (If no SSJ): 3.6
  
  Future Piccolo: 6
  
  Future Gohan (Two Arms): 2
  -SSJ: 100
  Future Gohan (One Arm): 3
  -SSJ: 150

-Trunks' Arrival-

• Future Trunks: 3.2
  -SSJ: 160
  
  Goku (Yardrat): 3.6
  -SSJ: 180

[/spoiler]

[DanielSSJ]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

Fut. Son Gohan: 2 million
-- Super Saiyan: 100 million
1 year later: 3 million
-- Super Saiyan: 150 million

Fut. Trunks (kid): 50,000
-- Super Saiyan: 2 million
3 years later: 3.1 million
-- Super Saiyan: 155 million
vs Cyborg Freeza: 3.4 million
-- Super Saiyan: 170 million

Fut. Vegeta: 2.8 million
-- Super Saiyan: 140 million

Fut. Piccolo: 60 million

Cyborg Freeza: 50 million
-- 100% Power (unseen): 150 million

Son Goku: 3.6 million
-- Super Saiyan: 180 million

[Hugo Boss]

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

I'd be grateful if you could share your source for this.

I don't remember Akira Toriyama's exactly words, but he justified BoG's time placement due to characters being still in their prime, while in the end of story they were getting old.

It wasn't very clear in the movies, but the anime implies Vegeta and Goku were stronger than Gohan even before Super Saiyan God was created. Vegeta had the bronze medal in Beerus' Arc, since Whis was out of any competition. Boo and Gohan were sharing the 4th place.

[DBZ Macky]

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

I'd be grateful if you could share your source for this.

I don't remember Akira Toriyama's exactly words, but he justified BoG's time placement due to characters being still in their prime, while in the end of story they were getting old.

It wasn't very clear in the movies, but the anime implies Vegeta and Goku were stronger than Gohan even before Super Saiyan God was created. Vegeta had the bronze medal in Beerus' Arc, since Whis was out of any competition. Boo and Gohan were sharing the 4th place.

How does that tie in with Goku still being weaker than Freezy-pop without delinquent hair though?

[Hugo Boss]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

[Khin]

- AT said everyone was at their best in BoG, that includes gohan. Vegeta called goku the strongest, so he was stronger than gohan.

I'd be grateful if you could share your source for this.

There you go..

[DanielSSJ]

I figured I might as well point out the exact wording.

When I decided, “For this movie, let’s go with the whole cast!” I thought, “What era would be best?” If it’s a few years after the “Majin Boo arc”, then almost all the cast members are at MAX strength…. And also, you know, in the final chapter, where Oob appears, I made [characters like] Bulma and Kuririn pretty old, so honestly, I thought, “Maaaybe it’s a biiit difficult” [to make the time period any later]. (laughs)

[dbgtFO]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

Even after all these years Base Goku("without delinquent hair" as per Chi Chi) is still weaker than 100% Freeza("Freezy-pop" as per OneyNG IIRC) in BoG, which DBZ Macky finds irreconcilable with Goku being stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

[Hugo Boss]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking.

Even after all these years Base Goku("without delinquent hair" as per Chi Chi) is still weaker than 100% Freeza("Freezy-pop" as per OneyNG IIRC) in BoG, which DBZ Macky finds irreconcilable with Goku being stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

Thank you!

In response to that, I guess they are as strong as presented. I don't have any problem with Base Goku being weaker than Freeza and stronger than Gohan with SS3.

[Analytic]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

(assuming base for all of the Saiyans):
Future Gohan (two-armed): 6
Future Gohan (one-armed): 8
Future Trunks (Mecha arc): 9
Future Vegeta (time of death): 15
Future Piccolo (time of death): 14.4
Goku (Mecha arc): 10

[ThePiccolo]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

Future Gohan(2 arms)- 2.2 million
SSJ - 110 Million
1 arm - 3 million
SSJ - 150 million
Future Trunks (Mecha arc) - 3.3 million
SSJ - 165 million
Future Vegeta - 3 million
SSJ - 150 million
Future Piccolo - 20 million
Goku (Mecha arc) - 3.5 million
SSJ - 175 million

[ZombieVito]

Interesting indeed. Everyone who posted their BP's appears to not have Vegeta doing any big gains from Namek.

Why is that? Was he just starting to get the hang of training? Did he just quit training after Goku died?

[Darkron2151]

Interesting indeed. Everyone who posted their BP's appears to not have Vegeta doing any big gains from Namek.

Why is that? Was he just starting to get the hang of training? Did he just quit training after Goku died?

Goku dying would most likely have put a big damper on training, seeing also Vegeta's reaction to Goku's sacrifice during the Cell Games. Poor Vegeta probably lost all drive after that.

It was also peace time, however, Vegeta's been shown to train regardless. On a side note, training for an upcoming enemy usually results in bigger gains in dbz. Take Piccolo. 5 Years after his defeat from Goku and his power hasn't changed that much (although he obtained the Makankōsappō). But after not even a year of training for the Saiyans and he increases his power nearly tenfold. Probably just how the plot rolled, but interesting regardless.

Another possibility is that Vegeta never unlocked Super Saiyan in the future. Granted, both the anime and also the special suggest otherwise, but the manga doesn't speak on it, so it could be fair game.

The reason why I have Vegeta so weak in the future is due to Gohan, with one arm, thinking he can take on the Androids and actually win. He knew both the likes of Vegeta and Piccolo couldn't do it, so he would have to be stronger than both in order to think this way. Gohan's also suggested to be less than or equal to Future Trunks on his arrival to defeat Mecha Freeza, and also weaker than Yardrat Goku. This doesn't leave much room for Vegeta.

[DanielSSJ]

Interesting indeed. Everyone who posted their BP's appears to not have Vegeta doing any big gains from Namek.

Why is that? Was he just starting to get the hang of training? Did he just quit training after Goku died?

Basically what Darkron2151 said. Goku's death during the Cell Games left Vegeta with with a gaping whole in his life. Vegeta lost his rival, his goal, his purpose for living in a single sudden event, which lead to depression. While he eventually got over it by the Boo arc, he also had spent a lot of time and character development to form attachments with others, specifically Bulma and Trunks. As Trunks grew up, Vegeta's desire to pass on his knowledge to him and make him the strongest around likely played a big part in this.

Now considering that Future Vegeta died long before this character development happens, it's likely that Vegeta's loss of drive costed him a lot of power and might've prevented him from becoming a Super Saiyan (though I personally think that he achieved it sometime before Goku's death).

[ZombieVito]

Did Vegeta go to space in search of Goku in the manga? That might actually explain the small gains.

[Darkron2151]

Did Vegeta go to space in search of Goku in the manga? That might actually explain the small gains.

Nope. Just went from Goku refusing to be wished back to earth by Porunga and then a year passed without him returning. Vegeta probably stayed at Bulma's place and waited for him to get back. As far as Vegeta knew, if he went off to space to search, Goku may have very well returned during that time and he would've missed it.

Not only that, but after hearing the news about the Androids coming in 3 years, Vegeta then went to Dr. Briefs and requested the gravity room to prepare. This very much implies that he didn't have it for any training during the time in which Goku was gone, even though he knew that Goku got a lot stronger due to gravity training.

[apex_pretador]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

Future Gohan:
80 million
One armed - 96 million

Future Trunks (Mecha arc):
100 million
Future Vegeta:
No way to tell, but if I had to guess, then it would depend if he achieved super saiyan, which I think not, so I put him at 4 million
Future Piccolo:
7 Million
Goku (Mecha arc):
110 million

Freeza is 120 million at his peak when undamaged, while freeza at his peak ON NAMEK is slightly below 100 million. (reference)

[Floader]

So how does everyone reconcile Goku and Vegeta's base powers in Super? I mean you have Goku going toe to toe with Final Form Freeza in base in one arc, but then in the Universe 6 and Future Trunks arcs they aren't implied to be that powerful. I mean Goku needed SSJ to beat Final Form Frost, who then had a difficult fight with Piccolo. I know Frost was stated to have lost stamina, but at worst he's maybe at 50%, which means base Goku and Piccolo shouldn't be drastically different. And this is even after Goku has trained for 3 more years in the RoSaT since fighting Freeza. I'm just at a loss when it comes scaling and interested to hear theories.