"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I wonder how truthfull this fusions are.

While I'm scrambling my brain over this nonsense, there's something I need to clarify: does the time ring only allows to travel forward into the future, and then return to the previou present time, OR does the time ring alows to freely travel anywhere in time but the Kaioshin are just forbidden to use it to travel to the past? I think it's the first, but the latter would sort of explain how he exchanged bodies with pre-BoG Goku (or did the body swap ocurred at the beginning of this arc? Goku and Piccolo were harvesting lettuces and carrots, were they not...? But that's still past...)...

Yeah the body swap occurred PostU6 arc in a timeline where Trunks didn't come back and talk about Black. As for your other question I am not too sure but I think they're just forbidden to go back.

Trunks had to come back otherwise Goku would have no reason to fight Zamasu in U10. The flashback shows it was Episode 53 when Black talks about Goku beating him.

It's implied that Goku and Zamasu were going to fight at some point regardless of Trunks. And it makes sense. They just never delved too much into it.

[Friezacooler]

Trunks shouldn't be able to compete with the gods as his body shouldn't be able to handle this much strain. Him achieving something Goku in BOG couldn't is just bad story writing and anti DBZ.

[FortuneSSJ]

Him achieving something Goku in BOG couldn't is just bad story writing and anti DBZ.

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

[Lord Beerus]

Him achieving something Goku in BOG couldn't is just bad story writing and anti DBZ.

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

[dragonballhero]

So... question: if Zamasu just swapped bodies with Goku, why is Black so strong? Where does his rapidly increasing strength come from? What is SSJR? Why does he have Zamasu's ki? If he has Zamasu's Ki, wouldn't Goku have had his own in Zamasu's body?

Two things:

1. I REALLY can't help but feel that Black's....."unusual" Zenkai ability just HAS to have something to do with the fact that Zamasu is an ACTUAL god. Maybe his "holy DNA" mixed with the DNA of Goku's body, and as a result, it gave Black some sort of "super Zenkai ability"? Pure specuation on my part.

2. It's implied (or confirmed) that the Zamasu who switches bodies with Goku does it right after the Champa/Monaka story arc. That being said, Goku (in that timeline) JUST meets Zamasu (in a manner of speaking) at that very moment. If so, Goku would probably have no idea how to use his powers and attacks.

[ArchedThunder]

Him achieving something Goku in BOG couldn't is just bad story writing and anti DBZ.

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

Or had a 4 year old Gohan surpass the power that his father spent his entire life building up with just a few months of training under Piccolo.

[Friezacooler]

Him achieving something Goku in BOG couldn't is just bad story writing and anti DBZ.

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

all those events from DBZ are easy to explain unlike trunks power up that Vegeta and Goku couldn't achieve. but toei fanboyism did, impossible to explain inuniverse.

[kinisking]

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

Or had a 4 year old Gohan surpass the power that his father spent his entire life building up with just a few months of training under Piccolo.

Goten, Trunks, and Gohan comparisons are unfair. They are half saiyan. They're genetically superior to saiyans. It's like being surprised a saiyan is stronger than a human.

[Sodhi]

I don't get the argument. How is this(trunk's) power up any different than the Z era.

[ArchedThunder]

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

Or had a 4 year old Gohan surpass the power that his father spent his entire life building up with just a few months of training under Piccolo.

Goten, Trunks, and Gohan comparisons are unfair. They are half saiyan. They're genetically superior to saiyans. It's like being surprised a saiyan is stronger than a human.

It's unfair to compare Future Trunks to half saiyans?

[Boo Machine]

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

all those events from DBZ are easy to explain unlike trunks power up that Vegeta and Goku couldn't achieve. but toei fanboyism did, impossible to explain inuniverse.

Can you explain them to me then? I must be messing something because I legit don't get it.

Also, Trunks new power up is new thing that came out of nowhere and happened a minute before the episode ended. I don't think they will explain it much later either, but can we at least wait for the next episode or, if you're feeling optimistic, 2 before we start throwing the "it doesn't make sense in-universe" , or "There is no explanation" thing around? I'm all for it later, but it seems premature at the moment.

[Lord Beerus]

Anti DBZ? The same DBZ that gave SSJ to 7 years old Goten and 8 years old Trunks?!

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

all those events from DBZ are easy to explain unlike trunks power up that Vegeta and Goku couldn't achieve. but toei fanboyism did, impossible to explain inuniverse.

Explain the scenario with Dr Gero building androids much stronger than Super Saiyans. Because as far as Dr Gero was concerned, he had only collected data from Saiyans while they were on Earth and he had no idea about what happened on Namek with Goku becoming a SSJ, and on top of that, was very surprised with Goku's SSJ abilities and power as whole he transformed in front of him. So how come Android 16, 17 and 18 turned to be as strong as they were? It's quite a plot hole now that you think about it.

[kinisking]

Or had a 4 year old Gohan surpass the power that his father spent his entire life building up with just a few months of training under Piccolo.

Goten, Trunks, and Gohan comparisons are unfair. They are half saiyan. They're genetically superior to saiyans. It's like being surprised a saiyan is stronger than a human.

It's unfair to compare Future Trunks to half saiyans?

Lmao, didn't see the original comment. I just thought something stupid was being compared to the instances that were being labelled and I was saying those instances made sense. Even with this case of FT, the instances being labelled make more sense than what is happening with FT. Those instances happened during their introduction, so it set a precedent for their potential from that point on. They were new characters, so they had infinite potential from a story telling standpoint. FT already has a precedent of not gaining huge amounts of strength from anger, so this seems like it's coming out of nowhere. I don't mind because it's badass though.

[Friezacooler]

Goten, Trunks, and Gohan comparisons are unfair. They are half saiyan. They're genetically superior to saiyans. It's like being surprised a saiyan is stronger than a human.

It's unfair to compare Future Trunks to half saiyans?

Lmao, didn't see the original comment. I just thought something stupid was being compared to the instances that were being labelled and I was saying those instances made sense. Even with this case of FT, the instances being labelled make more sense than what is happening with FT. Those instances happened during their introduction, so it set a precedent for their potential from that point on. They were new characters, so they had infinite potential from a story telling standpoint. FT already has a precedent of not gaining huge amounts of strength from anger, so this seems like it's coming out of nowhere. I don't mind because it's badass though.

Yep you state it best, still it might be bad ass, but why not give it same treatment with yamcha, tien, krillin etc to make it more bad ass, wouldn't it be more intresting for them to compete with ssj Blue and zeno etc.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

And had an old man in cave capable of building robots much stronger than Super Saiyan with very limited data on what Saiyans were capable with.

all those events from DBZ are easy to explain unlike trunks power up that Vegeta and Goku couldn't achieve. but toei fanboyism did, impossible to explain inuniverse.

Explain the scenario with Dr Gero building androids much stronger than Super Saiyans. Because as far as Dr Gero was concerned, he had only collected data from Saiyans while they were on Earth and he had no idea about what happened on Namek with Goku becoming a SSJ, and on top of that, was very surprised with Goku's SSJ abilities and power as whole he transformed in front of him. So how come Android 16, 17 and 18 turned to be as strong as they were? It's quite a plot hole now that you think about it.

Why is it a plot-hole? He discovered how to produce artificial energy similar to ki, why would the data he had on Goku matter? He should be able to make them as strong as he wants.

[ailema88]

Vegeta and Goku got the power of a god without any stressful situation just training with Whis, so it's a power they are not used to handle under the pressure Trunks has had, living in his chaotic and fateful future since he was very young.. Even in the Universe tournament we saw that Goku and Vegeta won easily their fights and when they fought against Hit who was a real opponent they both didn't take advantage of their power Vegeta didn't do anything and if Goku wouldn't do the kaioken he would end up the same... I think there will be a moment when Goku and Vegeta will free that amount of power I'm sure they have.. But definetly I don't think Trunks is able to surpass the real level Goku and Vegeta are now, even Whis has said that if Goku and Vegeta join forces are surely able to surpass Beerus..

[Lord Beerus]

all those events from DBZ are easy to explain unlike trunks power up that Vegeta and Goku couldn't achieve. but toei fanboyism did, impossible to explain inuniverse.

Explain the scenario with Dr Gero building androids much stronger than Super Saiyans. Because as far as Dr Gero was concerned, he had only collected data from Saiyans while they were on Earth and he had no idea about what happened on Namek with Goku becoming a SSJ, and on top of that, was very surprised with Goku's SSJ abilities and power as whole he transformed in front of him. So how come Android 16, 17 and 18 turned to be as strong as they were? It's quite a plot hole now that you think about it.

Why is it a plot-hole? He discovered how to produce artificial energy similar to ki, why would the data he had on Goku matter? He should be able to make them as strong as he wants.

Why would he make the Androids that strong though? I mean, Dr Gero is not precognitive and wouldn't have any idea that Super Saiyan would be a thing. So why go overkill with the Androids power?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Why would he make the Androids that strong though? I mean, Dr Gero is not precognitive and wouldn't have any idea that Super Saiyan would be a thing. So why go overkill with the Androids power?

Because if he can, why not? He was a mad scientist with world domination plans, and he was playing god on top of it.

[TheMikado]

I don't understand why multiple people are taking story plots completely out of context.

I'm sure lots of Charles dickens works, especially Christmas carol would look like nonsensical @$$pulls if you want to remove the context and he story they occur in. In not sure how doing that acts as a defense for Super.

People, are just stating that inside the fictional universe created. The current works has inconsistencies versus the previous. Rather than saying yeah I guys a few decades of time could result in that we have people sticking their fingers in their ears and saying no, no, no if this sucks, the other stuff you love sucks too. It's like the argument 6 year olds use, it's so bizarre.

Super is different then it's predecessors and that's ok. Not everyone is going to like those changes and yes the storytelling is not at fluid or streamlined. Super feels like a disjointedly constructed story written by a lot of different people because well, it is.

[Nejishiki]

I don't understand a question like that. Gero made his Artificial Humans strong and sealed them away because he made them too strong. That's the very reason No. 19 and himself exist and why they're specifically absorption models. The amount isn't relevant to the narrative. There isn't a guide for how much he's allowed to progress his research. That's limiting the storytelling for no discernible motive.