Can we convince FUNimation to make more Level sets?

[jelleline89]

What is they did somthing along the lines of Warner Archives made to order system? Wasnt Sabbat trying to get somthing with broadcast audio?

I do believe Sabat expressed interest in the broadcast audio but to my knowledge that hasn't really gone anywhere for a while. I'm not sure Toei would approve of them using that anyway!

Is there any reason that TOEI would care in the first place?

FUNimation can't just use this audio without first going through Toei. They are required to use the materials properly licensed to them through Toei snd go through the legal procedures that were agreed up. It's the same reason One Piece is still not on Blu-ray and Kai had to have its OST replaced.

Superior quality or not, it's ultimately Toei's decision to allow this broadcast audio to be used, and it can ne certain what they'll say.

[ther2view]

The Season Blu Rays did have nice audio at least. If I remember correctly, I don't think Funimation has the rights for HD Dragon Ball do they? Something like that. There might not be enough of a demand for HD GT but it might happen. It's probably more likely than 4x3 Dragon Ball Z at this point! At least the GT singles look good and are well priced.

Funimation doesn't have film masters for DB or GT, only digi-betas, which don't have the native resolution to be put on a HD format.

I actually want those two series on Blu-Ray more than anything but unless TOEI releases them this year to coincide with the 30th and 20th anniversaries of DB and GT respectively it could be years before it ever happens. They might do their own Z Blu-Ray since Kai wasn't a big thing in Japan, maybe Funimation can get the rights to release a US version of that if they don't continue the level sets.

Ah okay, I knew it was something along those lines. I didn't know Funimation didn't have the masters for GT either. So the masters are something Funimation would have to actually receive from Toei, or could they request for them?

I'd much prefer to get the first series on Blu Ray as well, but I'm not too sure about the likelihood! Maybe someday! Would there be enough of a demand for a Japanese Blu Ray release of all three of the original series? I'm not certain Toei is interested in that, but it would be awesome to get the rights for our own version of something like that. I actually think that might be the story with Yu Yu Hakusho's Blu Rays.

Ugh... that is one thing that sucks about being a Dragon Ball fan: the stupid bureaucracy. I'm sitting here with money, waiting to just give it to them, but they won't give me what I want!
Ok, to be fair, things are much better now than I heard it was in the early 2000's for Dragon Ball fandom. At least we can legally own and watch everything here in America, but I'm a spoiled new fan that is never satisfied with what I have!
Rant over. Honestly, as much as I'd love a full remaster and everything, I'd be happy with them just taking their existing dvd sets video and just putting that on blu-ray. It might look crappy in comparison, but it'd at least be a start.

[Netter75]

What is they did somthing along the lines of Warner Archives made to order system? Wasnt Sabbat trying to get somthing with broadcast audio?

I'm surprised Funi hasn't done this. By some accounts Level 2.1 and 2.2 were actually finished to the point that some copies were even sent out. You'd think that since the time and money had already been spent on the transfer that they would do some on-demand pressings or maybe a very limited run. Better than just sitting on the material, and it would allow us to complete the first saga!

There hasn't been any development on that OG audio in a while :/

[eledoremassis02]

What is they did somthing along the lines of Warner Archives made to order system? Wasnt Sabbat trying to get somthing with broadcast audio?

I'm surprised Funi hasn't done this. By some accounts Level 2.1 and 2.2 were actually finished to the point that some copies were even sent out. You'd think that since the time and money had already been spent on the transfer that they would do some on-demand pressings or maybe a very limited run. Better than just sitting on the material, and it would allow us to complete the first saga!

There hasn't been any development on that OG audio in a while :/

Thats a shame. I would of loved 2.1 and 2.2 because I do like that part of the series and it would have ran up into the singles!! wait a minute...then people could get all of z in 4:3 and not the OB or season blurays I SENSE CONSPIRACY!

[Deli295]

Probably this thread is more dead than the actual Level Sets but I wanted to say that I still have faith on Funimation that they will resume this sets, maybe sooner than we think: They are doing a pretty good job with The Final Chapters and Super, Blu-Rays coming soon and they seem to be pretty awesome (TFC Part 1 has already come out and it is very good). I have a theory that Toei itself doesn't allow Funi to make a proper release, maybe because they still make a lot of money from shitty releases. I mean really, Funi's excuses for cropping the show and "updating it" (noise reducing the shit out from the masters) are so poor that it seems to be a terrible joke, and that other excuse of "they didn't make up for the amount of effort it took" is ever more annoying. So well, that, I really hope Toei stops being such a pain in the butt and allows Funi to make a very good DBZ release, maybe with broadcast audio, who knows.
Also can anybody tell me which reels do Funimation have?

[Robo4900]

Probably this thread is more dead than the actual Level Sets but I wanted to say that I still have faith on Funimation that they will resume this sets, maybe sooner than we think

Unlikely.
Maybe a few years down the line, but for now, Dragon Ball releases are at full market saturation because they spent so long doing a new release every year or two. Everyone's already got the show, and doesn't want to buy it again. That's what killed the Levels in the first place. If they'd waited a couple of years before starting the Levels, I'm 100% certain that would be the Blu-Ray release we have. But, it is what it is.

They are doing a pretty good job with The Final Chapters and Super, Blu-Rays coming soon and they seem to be pretty awesome (TFC Part 1 has already come out and it is very good).

Those are Toei's masters. They don't edit/"Remaster" them, so there's nothing to ruin.

I have a theory that Toei itself doesn't allow Funi to make a proper release, maybe because they still make a lot of money from shitty releases. I mean really, Funi's excuses for cropping the show and "updating it" (noise reducing the shit out from the masters) are so poor that it seems to be a terrible joke, and that other excuse of "they didn't make up for the amount of effort it took" is ever more annoying. So well, that, I really hope Toei stops being such a pain in the butt and allows Funi to make a very good DBZ release, maybe with broadcast audio, who knows.

As Derek Padula has confirmed in the past, Chris Sabat has full broadcast audio for Dragon Ball Z now.
Toei had nothing to do with Funi's BDs being crap. After the poor timing of the Levels, they wanted a BD release out again as soon as they possibly could. In the end, they decided it would be cheap to just crop it, thus the amount of tape marks they'd have to clean would be reduced to almost nothing. They then used aggressive DNR filters and such to remove most film damage and such automatically, and at the same time give it a "Modern" look for really cheap.

Also can anybody tell me which reels do Funimation have?

All of Dragon Ball Z, all of the original movies(All four DB ones, all thirteen Z ones), and both TV specials for Z.
The only stuff they're missing is DB and GT. Possibly also the GT special, although I'm not sure Toei have a film version of that on hand.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Probably this thread is more dead than the actual Level Sets...

Not a mod, so don't take my word as authority, but it's probably better to make a new thread rather than reviving these dead ones.

They are doing a pretty good job with The Final Chapters and Super, Blu-Rays coming soon and they seem to be pretty awesome (TFC Part 1 has already come out and it is very good).

Funimation isn't laying a finger on the source material outside of dubbing. It's not comparable to Z, where they have to do something in order for the product to be marketable.

I have a theory that Toei itself doesn't allow Funi to make a proper release, maybe because they still make a lot of money from shitty releases. I mean really, Funi's excuses for cropping the show and "updating it" (noise reducing the shit out from the masters) are so poor that it seems to be a terrible joke, and that other excuse of "they didn't make up for the amount of effort it took" is ever more annoying.

That's not very likely. If Toei had a problem with the Levels, they wouldn't have gotten as far as they had. In reality, we know what killed the Level Sets: Funimation spammed DBZ releases for almost 5 years before they were produced (not including the singles), and they happened to follow the Dragon Boxes, which are arguably better than the Level Sets. They were cancelled because Funimation sucked the blood out of their consumer base, they would have failed no matter what. We also know why Funimation employs the remastering tactics they do. It's cheap and it makes the show look new, which is marketable as fuck. Now that we have new DB material, and the Season Sets and Bricks are still selling just fine as best we can tell, we won't get new Level Sets, period.

Also can anybody tell me which reels do Funimation have?

Since 2006, Funimation has its own film reel copied from Toei's. It's been used for the Orange Bricks, Level Sets, and Season Blu-rays.

Hope I responded sufficiently if/before the thread gets locked.

As Derek Padula has confirmed in the past, Chris Sabat has full broadcast audio for Dragon Ball Z now..

This was his last mention of it from the Broadcast Audio Discussion Thread before it was locked a few months ago. It sounds like Sabat still only has some of the audio:

Sabat has told me that he would like to use it some day in an official release. So if you're looking for 'evidence,' then you can take his personal wish into account.

But if you do, then you must also take into account that he does not own FUNimation. Even though he's the voice director of the series, he doesn't make their business decisions. He would like a new release, but there are a lot of people who have to sign off on that decision.

A few years ago my idea to send Sabat the broadcast audio seemed like a crazy long shot dream, and there were naysayers. But after years of effort, now he has some of it. Yes, there is a better version out there in the wild, but until Kei sends it to me or to Sabat directly, this is the best we've got.

So it is what it is. My advice is to not get emotionally invested one way or the other.

[funrush]

By some accounts Level 2.1 and 2.2 were actually finished to the point that some copies were even sent out.

To the bolded, is that true? Are there really a handful of copies floating around somewhere?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

To the bolded, is that true? Are there really a handful of copies floating around somewhere?

It's been claimed, but no one has ever been able to confirm it with any reliability to my knowledge. However, a few episodes from 2.1 were available on streaming services for a while.

[Metalwario64]

Whenever I think of the Level sets and how now we're once again stuck with a cropped, smeared release, I just feel like FUNimation should have taking their film, scan in the footage in 4x3, and just release them as a fullscreen edition of the season sets (like old Widescreen and P&S Fullscreen movie releases), just slap a large "FULL SCREEN" on the top of the front cover. They would just be offering a "choice", and it wouldn't even have to have seemed like an apology, just another "edition". Then they could have silently discontinued the widescreen orange bricks, and now everyone could have a halfway decent 4x3 release.

We wouldn't have had the Dragon Boxes, but we could have had a 4x3 scan similar to the Level sets, but in SD and without the cleanup, and that would still be available for purchase, therefore, meaning those who missed them would still be able to have a 4x3 release.

I still wish that maybe at the least that FUNimation would just release their untouched film, preferably both on DVD and Blu-ray because I still don't have a BD player, maybe as an online exclusive, or maybe even an Amazon exclusive or something.

[Robo4900]

By some accounts Level 2.1 and 2.2 were actually finished to the point that some copies were even sent out.

To the bolded, is that true? Are there really a handful of copies floating around somewhere?

I'm pretty sure 2.1 was at the very least sent to disc-pressing facilities to be duplicated for release.
As for 2.2, I'm not sure.

-

Metalwario64 -- They were kind of going to do a similar thing with the Ultimate Uncuts; they were using their DigiBetas, which are great for DVD, can only ever be in 4:3 unless upscaling is the factor, and pose no real disadvantage to film for a DVD release. Then they decided to do the Orange Bricks instead...
Anyway, a DigiBeta release would be cheaper to put together than a film release, so the entire mentality behind the Orange Bricks was completely stupid from the beginning.

[Metalwario64]

Yeah, if the orange bricks were just a collection of their digibeta footage, it would have sold just as well, and we wouldn't have been in this mess to begin with.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

To the bolded, is that true? Are there really a handful of copies floating around somewhere?

It's been claimed, but no one has ever been able to confirm it with any reliability to my knowledge. However, a few episodes from 2.1 were available on streaming services for a while.

I made a topic about that a few years ago someone on Amazon was selling 2.1 for $3000 but I then asked them to take a photo of it and then they quickly de-listed their listing.... I don't think there are any physical copies out there.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Those Level Sets releases were timed very poorly, imo. I didn't even know of them until after they'd already been cancelled since there were several other releases going on at the same time. FUNi had well oversaturated their own market. I certainly didn't have the money at the time for yet another re-release of the same series...

Isn't there some much higher quality broadcast audio for Z floating around out in the world somewhere? I would assume that FUNi will hold off on another release until they'd be able to make use of those audio recordings. And because I'm a bit cynical now with how this series keeps getting "whored-out", I can't help but think that they'd do something just enough to tamper with the video quality... again, or leave content out such as Eyecatches, Next Episode Previews,etc. Leaving it open for another potential re-release down the road "for the Hardcore Japanese fans!".

It can't be allowed for a be-all-end-all release for this series. It just can't. They'll just replace the dead cow with another... this time with "Z, as it was meant to be heard!".

Because, business practices, shareholders and such.

...

[Deli295]

Another question: who has 2nd generation film reels? Funimation has 3rd generation ones right?

[Robo4900]

Those Level Sets releases were timed very poorly, imo. I didn't even know of them until after they'd already been cancelled since there were several other releases going on at the same time. FUNi had well oversaturated their own market. I certainly didn't have the money at the time for yet another re-release of the same series...

Precisely what killed the Levels.
It was such a poor decision to release them then, but there's nothing we can do about it now.

Isn't there some much higher quality broadcast audio for Z floating around out in the world somewhere? I would assume that FUNi will hold off on another release until they'd be able to make use of those audio recordings. And because I'm a bit cynical now with how this series keeps getting "whored-out", I can't help but think that they'd do something just enough to tamper with the video quality... again, or leave content out such as Eyecatches, Next Episode Previews,etc. Leaving it open for another potential re-release down the road "for the Hardcore Japanese fans!".

It can't be allowed for a be-all-end-all release for this series. It just can't. They'll just replace the dead cow with another... this time with "Z, as it was meant to be heard!".

There is higher quality stuff, but as far as I know only Kei has this material.
And unfortuantely, it seems the original series' broadcast audio is also only in Kei's collection.
Thankfully, Toei probably have GT's original master audio sitting around on the D2 master tapes of the show in their archives(And if they don't, various TV stations do have it), so that's taken care of, at least.

Another question: who has 2nd generation film reels? Funimation has 3rd generation ones right?

I'm not 100% certain, but I imagine it's like this:
1st generation is the negatives. Toei keeps this in cold storage.
2nd generation is Toei's interpositives, which are kept to be copied.
3rd generation is the prints Funimation has, and the broadcast reels TV stations in Japan used to get.

[Deli295]

Those Level Sets releases were timed very poorly, imo. I didn't even know of them until after they'd already been cancelled since there were several other releases going on at the same time. FUNi had well oversaturated their own market. I certainly didn't have the money at the time for yet another re-release of the same series...

Isn't there some much higher quality broadcast audio for Z floating around out in the world somewhere? I would assume that FUNi will hold off on another release until they'd be able to make use of those audio recordings. And because I'm a bit cynical now with how this series keeps getting "whored-out", I can't help but think that they'd do something just enough to tamper with the video quality... again, or leave content out such as Eyecatches, Next Episode Previews,etc. Leaving it open for another potential re-release down the road "for the Hardcore Japanese fans!".

It can't be allowed for a be-all-end-all release for this series. It just can't. They'll just replace the dead cow with another... this time with "Z, as it was meant to be heard!".

Because, business practices, shareholders and such.

...

I don't know, I think I would just prefer an overall good standard edition for all the public (like the Level Sets) and not some Ultra Mega Hardcore for Japanese Fans Only and Limited Edition which will most likely get cancelled.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Those Level Sets releases were timed very poorly, imo. I didn't even know of them until after they'd already been cancelled since there were several other releases going on at the same time. FUNi had well oversaturated their own market. I certainly didn't have the money at the time for yet another re-release of the same series...

Precisely what killed the Levels.
It was such a poor decision to release them then, but there's nothing we can do about it now.

Well fortunately FUNi have learned from that mistake but unfortunately that lesson came at the cost of the level sets.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

I don't know, I think I would just prefer an overall good standard edition for all the public (like the Level Sets) and not some Ultra Mega Hardcore for Japanese Fans Only and Limited Edition which will most likely get cancelled.

That's what I was getting at. The general audience release would be put out there first, followed by a "Limited Edition" release at some point. These releases would be of varying video quality... just because ( ). They would share the same or similar audio quality -- which will be its biggest selling point. The differences mainly would be content withheld and package art.

Hypothetically speaking if the broadcast audio is put to use, of course.

[KentalSSJ6]

No. The Level sets themselves failed because the DB market was already oversaturated. The Brick sets were selling stupidly well and all those multi movie packs were out. By the time the Level sets were out, almost everybody already had the entirety of Z in their collection so to the casual fan, they didnt need anymore. It was a poorly timed release and the project was cancelled because of it.

Besides, after the scumbag methods they used with the Bluray seasons and ignoring the fan-voted polls over the aspect ratio, I dont trust Funimation when it comes to the video quality of Dragon Ball. Leave it to dubbing and nothing else.