TheMikado wrote:
For those complaining about SSJ4, I don't know what to tell you... it's a clear reference to the original SSJ legend whichvshows a golden Oozaru. This Oozaru form being the precursor to SSJ4 and it gives detail on who one achieved each of these forms. It combines the two transformation branches of Oozuru and SSJ to create something new but which is built on existing lore, plausible, and something fans should have naturally speculated on. It's just plan well written into the lore established previously. It fits and further it earns its title as the ultimate form in the universe and implies it's the true SSJ form. This also makes sense why it would be feared throughout the universe as that form was the final transformation which SSJs displayed.
To be a fair counter, because I like SS4. For people who love cannon, Golden Oozaru is not part of the SS legend, its anime only. There is no reference to it at all in the manga. I know, I know that word "cannon" but it matters to some so I might as well get it out of the way.
There is nothing in the lore about SS4, the anime scene shows a giant, golden shape. Thats all. To be fair it looks semi-saiyanish but its still a giant with an elongated muzzle.
SS4 is a pretty big far cry from that image. Also since the legend is near forgotten with none alive knowing what a SS even looks like before Goku, how dose Old Kai learn of this form?
I'm sorry but its not "well written into the lore" because literally nothing is said about it.
Plausible is an issue to. No matter which way you slice it SS4 is a natural transformation, just like all the other SS forms. Yet the form has some very unnatural aspects that are never explained in the story. Why dose Goku become an adult again? And a much more interesting question, how the bloody hell dose the form make people clothes appear and disappear like magic?
Those are some very real issues with the form that are never given a proper explanation in the story.
When it comes to how SSG looks, well your entitle to your opinion. As for the lore I'm afraid I dont see it the same way. Going by Super, which is the official backstory for the form for the ongoing series, SSG is a form that has been lost to time. The only record of it comes from the namekian book of legends, and since we know even less about the book then we do SSG that tells us nothing about the form's origin in time. The saiyan's of Vegeta don't know of it and despite what fans say, nor dose Frieza. While the line is linked to the movie, his statement was "
Super Saiyan...could it be some kind of god". Frieza says nothing about a Super Saiyan God, he is speculation about SS and wither it is a god of the saiyan people, simply put his words are ambiguous enough to stop it being a plot hole.
All that Shenron said was that Super Saiyan God was a figure in saiyan mythology and since the saiyans history has now be exponentially lengthened since their origin now begins on Planet Salada and they later moved to Plant/Vegeta, the SSG could have originated long ago on Salada before its destruction.
This dose not make it any less of a retrospective ass pull, but Super has created a timeline were it can exist with creating a contradiction.
Edit:
Ziegander wrote:Hey, guys, first post!
Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter, but I guess I missed something: can someone explain how SSB allows Goku to use Kaio-Ken "again?" Or even how it allows him to make better use of it, encouraging him to use it again whereas he hadn't in a very long time until attaining SSB? Because I thought it was cool that he was using it again, and I just assumed it was Toriyama nostalgia (something that seems to keep popping up in Super) that brought it back, but if there's an in-story, lore-reason for Goku using it with SSB I didn't realize.
Its to do with SSB's Ki Control and Whis's training. Basically the form grants the user a much higher degree of control over their power and when combined with Whis's teachings Goku can pull of the Kaio-Ken.
Kaio-Ken at its most basic, is a technique that allows the user to "force" their body to become stronger. This requires a very high degree of control with little room for error as mishandling the technique can result in user hurting themselves or even dying. This why Goku cannot use it as in his SS forms, with each level he loses control of his ki and that dose not mix well with the Kaio-Ken for obvious reasons. The only time he could was in the filler against Pikkon. When he did this he had masterd his SS form but could only hold the Super Kaio-Ken (which was likely only a x2) for just a moment. Goku in his base state can power up the form to x10 with no ill effects and to x20 if forced.
For the reason's I stated above, SSB Goku can not only use Kaio-Ken but also use it up to his natural tolerance for the technique (x10) for an period time. However even then, if he uses it for to long he risks some pretty bad side effects.
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SSGod isn't lazy or a recolour, as seen here:
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