"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[SansrivaaL]

Sometimes me not caring that much about whats canon or not is a blessing, I hear that it being canon or not can sometimes damage your view and enjoyment on the show by a crazy level, Tho there are the powerlevel and headcanon problem as well.

[Michsi]

The writing process isn't that messy even with Super's production despite fan theories that none of the writers talk to each other. Toriyama writes the outline, the director makes the script, the writers make the events of the script happened. In all those, Toriyama gives his approval as Toyo said in an interview, Toriyama oversees everything Dragon Ball related. It isn't one person, but most things in media isn't just one person. Even the original Dragon Ball wasn't just Toriyama since he had editors, two that heavily influence the Androids/Cell Saga.

That was the whole point of my post; I wasn't speaking just about Super when I made that statement about writing, but the process in general. I was even going to mention the Dragon Ball manga myself as an example, because even there you can't say it was the sole work of one writer. Heck, there are voices claiming that Torishima and Kondo's involvement were nearly as detrimental to the franchise's success as Toriyama himself.
Same goes for the writers responsible for an individual episode. You see their name pop up in the credits, bur more often than not there are other people involved in shaping the script.

That's what I mean by messy. It's not a clean, step-by-step process with clearly defined responsibilities for each individual. Sure, it may vary depending on studio and culture (American and Japanese studios differ in some ways when it comes to processes ) but I'd say this is true for most cases.

In short, if Toriyama doesn't want something, it isn't going to be in Super, manga or anime. At the same time, he's more than happy to let Toei and Toyo put their own spin on the story.

Yep, he has no qualms about denying Toei things he doesn't agree with, but there are things he seems more adamant about, like not wanting images of destroyed cities in BOG, and things that would just make him go "Yeah, ok, sure, whatever." He has always been vocal about not caring that much about the action aspect of the story or who is stronger than who- definitely not to the degree the fans do- and I feel that this is what people actually want his thoughts on.

True, the Japanese fans are not as hung up on 'canon' as western fans, which is why stuff like Heroes is popular, and 'canon' has been used as short term for 'stuff I don't like', but even they know what connects to the main story and what stuff is there for fun or a What If. Like almost no Japanese fan is going to say Broly exists in the main story of Dragon Ball or GT and Super connects.

Like I said, they can be aware of what is in the original manga and what not, but it's still treated mostly as one big franchise. That's why you saw GT in Toei's official time line. I doubt it was because of the specific intent to connect Super to GT, just that it is a part of the franchise, it exists, fans know of it, it belongs to an event dedicated to the Dragon Ball anime.
Also, the vast majority of fans are probably casual fans anyway, who probably have never even read an interview to know who came up with what.

Anyway, it feels like we agree on most things in regards to this.

[OverHeaven]

Talking about something other than Kefla, I am quite positive that at least U6 will be brought back. They wouldn't bring up the whole Sadala thing again, and Frost being eliminated by Zeno was for the best, as they have no plans with him and he probably won't get revived if U6 is wished back.

That doesn't mean anything, really. Super is know for avoiding the "obvious route", I mean many thought Whis was right about Black being a Goku's copy and it wasn't like that, the same about the not happy end in the said arc.

It's not just about "happy" or sad endings. The thing is, while it's true that Trunk's world was erased, he and Mai are still alive and everyone who died were just normal people that nobody cared about and didn't have any significant role. And we have an exact Yajirobi copy here.

Universe 6 on the other hand, introduced many new active and strong characters that are becoming super popular. Now it has a huge differences from Z. I just can't imagine that characters like Hit and Caulifla may stay erased forever at the end of this arc. It's not happening.

In fact, I'm positive that they will become recurring characters like Beerus and Whis.

[Totamo]

You know, i have been thinking all day about 115 and I realize, the worst it could be is episode 100, which in my opinion was the worst episode in the tournament and one of the worst in super.

[Kanassa]

everyone who died were just normal people that nobody cared about and didn't have any significant role.

IN the manga, maybe. But in the anime there was a solid attempt to make the civilian both useful and sympathetic; I will always praise the Future Trunks arc for getting me to give a shit about the death of the collateral damage in a fighting show.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Oh, don't feign offense. You know there's going to be nasty comments when Ribrianne finally goes, and it's not gonna be just on Youtube.

We can say the same thing about any universe. There are fans who wants to see U6 get erased because they don't like them outside of a few characters.

Yeah, but that's only because the focus right now is on Kale and Caulifla, who are polarising characters. As a whole, Universe 6 has the most emotional investment outside of the home team. A lot of the characters from it like Champa, Vados and especially Hit are well loved. Even the divisive ones like Frost, Magetta and the three Saiyans have plenty of fans. A lot of them have connections to the Universe 7 cast: Beerus with his brother, Goku's rivalry with Hit, Vegeta's mentorship with Cabba, etc. When they go, it's going to be a big moment and I was just saying I'd prefer that moment not get wasted. If 6 goes this soon, no other Universe erasure will have the same level of impact.

Imagine what would happen if Universe 3 went out after 6. What's that going to be like? Oh no, Maji Kayo, you...poor petal. The reason I lumped Universe 2 in the same category is we saw what happened last week when they tried to give Ribrianne an emotional moment. Everyone just complained she was getting too much screentime, and asked why Vegeta hadn't eliminated her already. Maybe it's different in the Japanese fandom, but our neck of the woods overwhelmingly does not like her, and will most likely not shed a tear when her Universe gets eliminated.

Honestly I think this is the major point we have to take away, while some are Very Vocal on the net both on some forums and YouTube about the small things about Ribrianne they dislike, in reality it is a Vocal Minority when it comes to the overall fandom. In Japan it was said by a fan she is far more liked and that is cause of the Magical Girl Genre being Far more popular their.

So if True if Japan Fans to different degrees like Ribrianne and also Caulifla and Kale, then Toei will be treating them more likely importantly and will likely give them more story to come down the road cause Toei takes account of the Japaneses market 1st by all accounts more then any other market as I have heard of over the years.

Really we Overestimate and Over sample our own dislike on the net here in the West. Not all Fans on the net dislike these girls and I have meet many. Just those that do are more vocal about it, but it is repeative too and I have seen more fans on YT start to get tired of the repetitive negativity. But even then I think we overestimate the net as well thinking this negativity will translate to how the girls are handled by Toei. Their are many more fans that don't participated in these forums or TY comment debates, they watch the show at their own degree, like what they like and buy who and what they want. So Western Audience can be a mix bag of both Liking, Disliking and Neutral on Ribrianne, Caulifla and Kale, we don't have samples yet. But to say that in Our Neck of the woods they all Overwhelmingly disliked, I think we are Trumping that Horn way to much like it truly matters in the long-run.

What we do here scarcely makes a dent in what Toei and other companies and writers do with their characters, if they are selling and do well in the general public fandom they will likely be seen as a success and staying but only by the writers/companies choosing, not by some fans on the net. What is the wake-up call to use here is that we many debate amount ourselves, but we are just a very select few in a Leviathan Level of Fandom size both here in the West and then around the world.

[Kanassa]

You know, I kind of hope 17 will be the one to eliminate Ribrianne in the end. It would be quite the ironic battle with him showing that an android who can barely emote through his voice knows more about love than the universe dedicated to it, pointing out how people like Ribrianne seem to only understand love on a superficial level.

[BlueBasilisk]

You know, I kind of hope 17 will be the one to eliminate Ribrianne in the end. It would be quite the ironic battle with him showing that an android who can barely emote through his voice knows more about love than the universe dedicated to it, pointing out how people like Ribrianne seem to only understand love on a superficial level.

I'm kinda wondering if Ribrianne isn't supposed to be a new Mr. Satan-type character. A loud mouth Miles Gloriosus braggart who's in over their depth and isn't likable on introduction but becomes more sympathetic and heroic through extended character development.

[Xeogran]

You know, I kind of hope 17 will be the one to eliminate Ribrianne in the end. It would be quite the ironic battle with him showing that an android who can barely emote through his voice knows more about love than the universe dedicated to it, pointing out how people like Ribrianne seem to only understand love on a superficial level.

I'm kinda wondering if Ribrianne isn't supposed to be a new Mr. Satan-type character. A loud mouth Miles Gloriosus braggart who's in over their depth and isn't likable on introduction but becomes more sympathetic and heroic through extended character development.

That's what I feel too. I doubt they'll just eliminate her without amounting to anything, regarding her personality. The recent speech shows there's room for development in Ribrianne's.. heart

[SansrivaaL]

I just want another universe getting erased already, its been like what.. 8-10 eps? since the last universe went poof, I want U6 to go poof and see how Goku and Vegeta reacts, Goku in a way kinda grew fond of Hit and Vegeta with Cabba, and also Beerus' reaction when Chanpa goes and if Chanpa will have any parting words to Beerus like "hey, you guys better win" or something cliche.
If U3 goes I have a feeling it'll be like "dont cry, dont be sad, we're all leaving together!" while holding hands and a smile on their faces with tears.
Or heck maybe no universe gets erased anymore and they'll all last till the last part of this arc, I wouldnt like that very much.

[CJStriker_CBR]

You know, I kind of hope 17 will be the one to eliminate Ribrianne in the end. It would be quite the ironic battle with him showing that an android who can barely emote through his voice knows more about love than the universe dedicated to it, pointing out how people like Ribrianne seem to only understand love on a superficial level.

I'm kinda wondering if Ribrianne isn't supposed to be a new Mr. Satan-type character. A loud mouth Miles Gloriosus braggart who's in over their depth and isn't likable on introduction but becomes more sympathetic and heroic through extended character development.

That's what I feel too. I doubt they'll just eliminate her without amounting to anything, regarding her personality. The recent speech shows there's room for development in Ribrianne's.. heart

No she is the strongest in U2, no even in the same thought ideal as Satan!

From My IPhone.

I think it will be the opposite, this will be the battle where we start to see the more higher and serious levels of power Ribrianne can do, not her Final Transformation mind you but how powerful in her base and super form can be. It be good if we got some backstory to her love and convictions in them as well. It might be a battle to with 18 and Rozie but while it would end with Ribrianne ringing out 17, 18 and 17 could ring out each other.

The only other kind of battle I see for 17 and 18 are with U3, but Not for them to be ringed our by Jiren, that be a waste:

[pacz360]

This hate for Kale and Caulifla is dumb

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

[Michsi]

This hate for Kale and Caulifla is dumb

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

I really wonder if people would have disliked these two to the same extent had they been powerful enough for the TOP from the get-go. Like Caulifla had attained SSJ level on her own at some point before Cabba, but being the renegade that she was never shared it with the rest of her kind, and Kale having always known about her outburst of power simply tried to keep it hidden. I think it would have warmed people up to them.

These characters started off with the wrong foot because of the 'tingly back' and the ultra jealousy gimmick.

The Broly idea alone was fine. I thought it was funny.

Though I think her U7 equivalent is supposed to be Gohan, what with mellow personality and the uncontrollable rage boost, but we have yet to see them interact.

[Shlugo]

I thoroughly enjoy haters being salty every time Caulifa and Kale are mentioned.

[namekiansaiyan]

Based on what we know so far I think the rest of the tournament could go like this.

The fighters listed second get knocked out unless stated.

Goku vs Caulifla and Kale (gets interrupted)
Kafla vs Borareta, Koitsukai, Pancea and Paparoni
Goku vs Kafla (Kafla seperates)
Frieza vs Caulifla and Kale
Dyspo vs Biarra and Catospera ( Universe 3 eliminated)
17 vs Rozie
18 vs Shantsa
Frieza vs Zirloin, Rabanra, Zarbuto
Goku vs Ribrianne (Universe 2 eliminated)
Frieza vs Dyspo
17 and 18 vs Damom and Gamisaras ( Universe 4 eliminated)
Piccolo and Gohan vs Saonel and Pilina ( Universe 6 eliminated)
Vegeta vs Toppo
Jiren vs Goku ( Goku nearly gets knocked out)
Jiren vs Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, 17 and 18
Jiren vs Goku ( gets interrupted)
Frieza vs Jiren and Goku. ( Universe 11 eliminated and Universe 7 win) Frieza just knocks out Goku and Jiren who are now very weak.

[RedHeat]

I thoroughly enjoy haters being salty every time Caulifa and Kale are mentioned.

Same, to be honest.

But with out shitposting, a lot of their arguments are flimsy at best and nonsensical at worst.

[hardcorefakes]

This hate for Kale and Caulifla is dumb

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

If anything, they don't get enough hate.

There is no outrageous criticism of them really, just people expecting the bare minimum of quality characterization. But for some reason their biggest fans get defensive if you critique even the smallest quality of theirs.

[CJStriker_CBR]

I thoroughly enjoy haters being salty every time Caulifa and Kale are mentioned.

Same, to be honest.

But with out shitposting, a lot of their arguments are flimsy at best and nonsensical at worst.

I just think it’s gets repetitive and worst dark in the end, you dislike a Character that is ok we all have those, but to get into you want horrible and dark things to happen to the.......really Why?!

Just gets over the Top.

[namekiansaiyan]

I thoroughly enjoy haters being salty every time Caulifa and Kale are mentioned.

Same, to be honest.

But with out shitposting, a lot of their arguments are flimsy at best and nonsensical at worst.

I just think it’s gets repetitive and worst dark in the end, you dislike a Character that is ok we all have those, but to get into you want horrible and dark things to happen to the.......really Why?!

Just gets over the Top.

There wa 80 characters in this battle royale with most of them new so this stuff was always going to happen.

[Shaqazooloo]

This hate for Kale and Caulifla is dumb

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

I really wonder if people would have disliked these two to the same extent had they been powerful enough for the TOP from the get-go. Like Caulifla had attained SSJ level on her own at some point before Cabba, but being the renegade that she was never shared it with the rest of her kind, and Kale having always known about her outburst of power simply tried to keep it hidden. I think it would have warmed people up to them.

These characters started off with the wrong foot because of the 'tingly back' and the ultra jealousy gimmick.

The Broly idea alone was fine. I thought it was funny.

Though I think her U7 equivalent is supposed to be Gohan, what with mellow personality and the uncontrollable rage boost, but we have yet to see them interact.

I would be able to tolerate Caulifla if that was the case. If she was like Kale and already had an op form before she was introduced or even if she was ss3 or something before the tournament, i'd find that more acceptable than what they actually went with.