"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[pacz360]

This hate for Kale and Caulifla is dumb

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

If anything, they don't get enough hate.

There is no outrageous criticism of them really, just people expecting the bare minimum of quality characterization. But for some reason their biggest fans get defensive if you critique even the smallest quality of theirs.

Honestly theres good arguments on both sides on why they like/dislikes both characters
Though both are acting childish in regards to them

[Noah]

Even tho what you stated isn't true about TOEI having to state what the supreme authority Toriyama said; I provided TOEI stating Super is Toriyama's written story too. Toriyama says it continues HIS original Dragonball manga story. Now prove to me Toriyama himself, TOEI or Toyotaro has contradicted Toriyama, the ultimate authority's statement about his own work?

And would you think Toei would not acknowledge Toriyama was the creator of the series? You probably don't know much about marketing or promotion. He's valuable, but is no supreme authority in the franchise, no matter how you want to force that, if he was in the first place he would never wanted to leave when dissatisfied with the quality of the show. He would have change that, that's a proof he's not fully in charge. Toei had to provide him ideas for a new arc. His statement was to just promote the new animated series, not related to canon as no official entity had ever stated that.

Sometimes me not caring that much about whats canon or not is a blessing, I hear that it being canon or not can sometimes damage your view and enjoyment on the show by a crazy level, Tho there are the powerlevel and headcanon problem as well.

Not really. I enjoy Super as much as enjoy GT it doesn't matter these stories were absent in the original work. They still can be entertaining.

[namekiansaiyan]

Same, to be honest.

But with out shitposting, a lot of their arguments are flimsy at best and nonsensical at worst.

I just think it’s gets repetitive and worst dark in the end, you dislike a Character that is ok we all have those, but to get into you want horrible and dark things to happen to the.......really Why?!

Just gets over the Top.

There was 80 characters in this battle royale with most of them new so this stuff was always going to happen.

[HeroR]

everyone who died were just normal people that nobody cared about and didn't have any significant role.

IN the manga, maybe. But in the anime there was a solid attempt to make the civilian both useful and sympathetic; I will always praise the Future Trunks arc for getting me to give a shit about the death of the collateral damage in a fighting show.

It wasn't just one, there were several people extremely upset when the 'fodder' died.

[Michsi]

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

I really wonder if people would have disliked these two to the same extent had they been powerful enough for the TOP from the get-go. Like Caulifla had attained SSJ level on her own at some point before Cabba, but being the renegade that she was never shared it with the rest of her kind, and Kale having always known about her outburst of power simply tried to keep it hidden. I think it would have warmed people up to them.

These characters started off with the wrong foot because of the 'tingly back' and the ultra jealousy gimmick.

The Broly idea alone was fine. I thought it was funny.

Though I think her U7 equivalent is supposed to be Gohan, what with mellow personality and the uncontrollable rage boost, but we have yet to see them interact.

I would be able to tolerate Caulifla if that was the case. If she was like Kale and already had an op form before she was introduced or even if she was ss3 or something before the tournament, i'd find that more acceptable than what they actually went with.

Yeah, I think the biggest problem in the end comes from the fact that their power-ups don't feel deserved and the explanations they come up with just fall flat. Comparing them with Goten and Trunks and how they where the ones to first make SSJ look like literal child's play also doesn't cut it because that was the intended joke back then. It doesn't feel like this is what they were going for here.

I haven't seen nearly as many people complain about Ribrianne being as powerful as she is, and only find the whole love shtick grating.

[Kinokima]

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

If anything, they don't get enough hate.

There is no outrageous criticism of them really, just people expecting the bare minimum of quality characterization. But for some reason their biggest fans get defensive if you critique even the smallest quality of theirs.

Honestly theres good arguments on both sides on why they like/dislikes both characters
Though both are acting childish in regards to them

Critique is fine and should be welcome the problem is when fans bash the characters call them names and say they want them to be tortured and humiliated. I mean saying they "don't get enough hate" how is that even a critique.


It's definitely not just "fans" of these characters that see the problem. I am not a fan of any of the new female characters. They are fine I am willing to see where the story goes with them. They are not my favorite characters but I am fine with their existence and also think fans need to give them time to develop. We all can't love every character, especially with a cast as large as Dragon Ball. We are going to have our favorites and some characters we don't care for as much and that is perfectly fine. But constantly harping on characters you dislike in negative ways is not endearing. I hate the term fanboy/fangirl people shouldn't be criticized for defending something they enjoy. At least they are putting energy into being positive not negative. And people want to enjoy fandom not constantly seeing their favorites bashed.

[Shlugo]

I thoroughly enjoy haters being salty every time Caulifa and Kale are mentioned.

Same, to be honest.

But with out shitposting, a lot of their arguments are flimsy at best and nonsensical at worst.

I hope the writers go the distance with them, so we can see the hater have a complete meltdown. Like imagine if they eliminated Freeza or something... people would go nuclear.

[OverHeaven]

everyone who died were just normal people that nobody cared about and didn't have any significant role.

IN the manga, maybe. But in the anime there was a solid attempt to make the civilian both useful and sympathetic; I will always praise the Future Trunks arc for getting me to give a shit about the death of the collateral damage in a fighting show.

It wasn't just one, there were several people extremely upset when the 'fodder' died.

Alright, I was wrong by saying "nobody cared about them" as this is a subjective thing. Even though I can't understand how someone would care about characters that just got introduced and erased without any significant role... whatever.

Still, doesn't change my overall point, all of them were nameless except those kids that were just there for the feelings. And Yajirobe.

[HeroR]

Yeah, I think the biggest problem in the end comes from the fact that their power-ups don't feel deserved and the explanations they come up with just fall flat. Comparing them with Goten and Trunks and how they where the ones to first make SSJ look like literal child's play also doesn't cut it because that was the intended joke back then. It doesn't feel like this is what they were going for here.

I haven't seen nearly as many people complain about Ribrianne being as powerful as she is, and only find the whole love shtick grating.

Never stop people from wanking Ultimate Gohan who got the most 'undeserving' power-up in the franchise. He became the strongest unfused character by sitting on his ass after he slacked off for seven years while Goku and Vegeta worked hard. At least Goten and Trunks had to learned the Fusion Dance, failed several times, and trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for about week before he became a force. Gohan just got his power-up for free and it surpassed everyone. And he did it again this arc. He did off-and-on training for over a year and in less than a day got power that rivaled Goku and Vegeta who trained for several years with Whis, including the three in the time chamber, and fought the likes of Black, Zamasu, and Merged Zamasu But, 'Gohan has the most 'potential' so all his power-ups are 'justified'. It's still BS, especially if you're going get salty over Cali who was also has 'great potential' and still didn't jumped as high as Gohan did in less time or Freeza who did a giant leap, but it still too him months and it was even perfected the first time.

Also Goten and Trunks getting Super Saiyan so easily did cut a lot of people and still do today. There was just no real internet back in the day were people could all go in one place and complain about it.

This hate for Kale and Caulifla is dumb

Not really
Caulifla is okay/descent
Kale has nothing going for her personality wise besides being a Broly clone

Kale has only really been a Broly clone in her Berserk state. In her natural form, she doesn't act like Broly at all.

Alright, I was wrong by saying "nobody cared about them" as this is a subjective thing. Even though I can't understand how someone would care about characters that just got introduced and erased without any significant role... whatever.

Still, doesn't change my overall point, all of them were nameless except those kids that were just there for the feelings. And Yajirobe.

Not true. Those humans saved Vegeta from Black and Zamasu when they were about to kill him. They also saved Goku and Trunks when they were injured. They also gave energy to the Spirit Bomb Sword that cut Merged Zamasu in half. Not to mention, the emotional support they acted for Trunks and Mai.

They may have been there for feeling, but they did contribute to the plot, which is why people moaned when they died,

[Boo Machine]

Still, doesn't change my overall point, all of them were nameless except those kids that were just there for the feelings. And Yajirobe.

Well yeah. No duh. Of course they were there for the feelings, to give even a little bit of depth to Trunks struggle. They certainly weren't there to beat Zamasu or Black. They don't need to be in depth characters with a long history of story for you to care, they just need to be there to emphasize what Trunks is fighting for and give it a face.

And if people in the audience cares about them, then that's a bonus.

Yeah, I think the biggest problem in the end comes from the fact that their power-ups don't feel deserved and the explanations they come up with just fall flat. Comparing them with Goten and Trunks and how they where the ones to first make SSJ look like literal child's play also doesn't cut it because that was the intended joke back then. It doesn't feel like this is what they were going for here.

I haven't seen nearly as many people complain about Ribrianne being as powerful as she is, and only find the whole love shtick grating.

That sounds incredibly silly to me though. So people would rather have them already ahead with little to no information and come up with their own head cannon instead of having the concrete info we were presented with? I find that hard to believe since people freak out when the show doesn't give us concrete info and we have to use our head cannon. The explanation doesn't fall flat. It works just fine, it's fans who choose to disregard it because they didn't like the direction.

And even if Goten and trunks were presented as jokes, they were still treated like a big deal, and were once tasked to use those prodigy abilities to save the whole world. They were treated seriously. To the point that TO THIS DAY people are LIVID that those two barely do anything in Super.

Caulifla and kale are barely any different, They are given amazing potential and still presented as vastly inferior to Goku and Vegeta in every way. These girls have gotten their butts kicked and saved WAY more often than they've had a solid victory and people acting like they're these walking mary sues that run over everyone else and shitting on the precious legacy of the Super saiyan that was already getting ridiculous in the Cell saga and full blown crazy in the Buu saga is absurd.

[perucho1990]

Yeah, I think the biggest problem in the end comes from the fact that their power-ups don't feel deserved and the explanations they come up with just fall flat. Comparing them with Goten and Trunks and how they where the ones to first make SSJ look like literal child's play also doesn't cut it because that was the intended joke back then. It doesn't feel like this is what they were going for here.

I haven't seen nearly as many people complain about Ribrianne being as powerful as she is, and only find the whole love shtick grating.

Kales case, yes, but not with Caulifla imo.

Cauliflas powerups is like how most characters in Shounen who get powerup and powerups due to hidden potential(Garou, Takamura, Kenpachi etc).

[Shaqazooloo]

I thoroughly enjoy haters being salty every time Caulifa and Kale are mentioned.

Same, to be honest.

But with out shitposting, a lot of their arguments are flimsy at best and nonsensical at worst.

I hope the writers go the distance with them, so we can see the hater have a complete meltdown. Like imagine if they eliminated Freeza or something... people would go nuclear.

Yeah, I kind of what them to go all the way with them at this point given the recent findings. I mean, i'll probably get pissed off still, but I think i'll be worth it to see other people's meltdown from it. Have them go Blue, UI, they could beat Vegeta, Jiren, Goku. I really want to see the reactions too them doing something big, how much bs are they gonna throw at them and if they don't cause massive meltdowns then I might actually be a little disappointed.

[hardcorefakes]

I mean saying they "don't get enough hate" how is that even a critique.

I've criticized them plenty more than just this. Besides, there are reasons for why I posted that in the first place (the previous criticisms). The point is that the critiques on them are fairly light, considering the context. Saying things like "we don't like random nonsense" shouldn't be controversial.

[Kinokima]

I mean saying they "don't get enough hate" how is that even a critique.

I've criticized them plenty more than just this. Besides, there are reasons for why I posted that in the first place (the previous criticisms). The point is that the critiques on them are fairly light, considering the context. Saying things like "we don't like random nonsense" shouldn't be controversial.

Considering I saw people call them horrible misogynist names and say they should be tortured and humiliated by Freeza, sorry if I disagree with you if the "critiques" of these characters are fairly light.

[Kanassa]

I mean saying they "don't get enough hate" how is that even a critique.

I've criticized them plenty more than just this. Besides, there are reasons for why I posted that in the first place (the previous criticisms). The point is that the critiques on them are fairly light, considering the context. Saying things like "we don't like random nonsense" shouldn't be controversial.

Considering I saw people call them horrible misogynist names .

Misogynist names? What names are those?

[SansrivaaL]

Why does wanting something bad happen to a character for development something bad now? this is a battle shonen right? thats normally how it goes, you get put down,embarrassed,humiliated,humbled etc. thats how you build up their character and show their growth, thats how people connect to those characters, I love Gohan and Goku but when they were getting their asses whooped or tortured and how they slowly stood up and fought back were some of their defining moments for me, Goku getting tortured by Piccolo shot him a new hole on his chest and stomping the hell out of it over and over, Freeza killing his best friend right in front of him, Black sadistically telling how he killed his family from another timeline, Gohan being forced to fight a battle that his father should be doing, Cell forcing it out of him while physically and mentally abusing him were some of the moments that I really connected to their characters and made me root for them more and more and made me adore how they are now. Do people expect that it always has to be fun and games in this type of genre and thinks that some beatdown,torture is bad? this isnt a seinen show, it wont get THAT dark, were people under the impression that we meant something ala Berserk level?

But if you guys dont like the idea you dont need to jump on me or anyone that wants it to happen, I just as much want to connect to them as some of you do since their gig now aint doin it for me and probably to some of the fans too(made the some painfully visible so that no one uses it as a weird leeway to change the topic or nitpick about talking for anyone, I am merely talking for myself, yes me, me alone.)

The Goku V Cauli,Kale eps hasnt even started yet and the talks are mostly all about those girls in this thread... this is like WWE Reigns/Cena level in a WWE forum when they shove them down our throats.

[RedHeat]

I mean saying they "don't get enough hate" how is that even a critique.

I've criticized them plenty more than just this. Besides, there are reasons for why I posted that in the first place (the previous criticisms). The point is that the critiques on them are fairly light, considering the context. Saying things like "we don't like random nonsense" shouldn't be controversial.

Considering I saw people call them horrible misogynist names and say they should be tortured and humiliated by Freeza, sorry if I disagree with you if the "critiques" of these characters are fairly light.

It shouldn't at all be a surprise that the community is full of weirdo fetishists. But I would prefer that we don't play with this deck because it doesn't really bring intelligent discussion.

[Kinokima]

I've criticized them plenty more than just this. Besides, there are reasons for why I posted that in the first place (the previous criticisms). The point is that the critiques on them are fairly light, considering the context. Saying things like "we don't like random nonsense" shouldn't be controversial.

Considering I saw people call them horrible misogynist names .

Misogynist names? What names are those?

The B and C word. While the B word may not be as bad the fact that you are calling a female character that means you are attacking them based on their gender. And the C word is just awful. There is no "critique" when people call characters names like that whether you personally find things like that offensive or not. Although as a woman I can tell you the C word is extremely offensive. Not sure what Kale, Ribirianne and Caulifla did to deserve such scorn. They got easy power ups? One keeps showing up in the story and getting away?

It shouldn't at all be a surprise that the community is full of weirdo fetishists. But I would prefer that we don't play with this deck because it doesn't really bring intelligent discussion.

Of course some criticism of these characters may be legitimate but when someone is saying that these characters "don't get enough hate" which is a weird statement in itself I want to point out that actually the opposite these characters get a ridiculous amount of hate and scorn and it's not just their fans that see it.

[HeroR]

Misogynist names? What names are those?

I have seen Kale and Cali being called cunts, which doesn't really have a male version of the same word and seems way too strong because you don't like a character's personality. It's also a little strange that all the characters that fans want to see tortured and humiliated by Freeza have been all girls. Even people who didn't like Cabba didn't necessarily want him to be fed to Freeza. Toppo, also a mix character, people just want Freeza to beat him, no torture and humiliate.

Even if sex isn't part of it, there is a lot of unfortunate implications going on, especially on this forum.

The B and C word. While the B word may not be as bad the fact that you are calling a female character that means you are attacking them based on their gender. And the C word is just awful. There is no "critique" when people call characters names like that whether you personally find things like that offensive or not. Although as a woman I can tell you the C word is extremely offensive. Not sure what Kale, Ribirianne and Caulifla did to deserve such scorn. They got easy power ups? One keeps showing up in the story and getting away?

Yeah that. Calling a woman a bitch isn't that bad since you can call a man a bastard and it's about the same. Cunt, really isn't and I have seen that word thrown around a lot lately. Especially over females who worst crime seems to be being annoying or arrogant, when male characters with the same problems like Toppo or U9 Supreme Kai don't get such strong language.

[Kanassa]

Considering I saw people call them horrible misogynist names .

Misogynist names? What names are those?

The B and C word. While the B word may not be as bad the fact that you are calling a female character that means you are attacking them based on their gender. And the C word is just awful. There is no "critique" when people call characters names like that whether you personally find things like that offensive or not. Although as a woman I can tell you the C word is extremely offensive. Not sure what Kale, Ribirianne and Caulifla did to deserve such scorn. They got easy power ups? One keeps showing up in the story and getting away?

I wouldn't call bitch and cunt misogynist words, they're just easy, go-to offensive words.