Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

[Noah]

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla as Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.

Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol

Then why not call yourself HeroineH?

[HeroR]

I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla was Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.

Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol

Then why not call yourself HeroineH?

I personally always saw 'hero' as gender neutral. Like, heroes have no gender.

[The gr]

The animation in this arc is really what's saving it for me. There's not enough meat in the execution of this tournament for me and it definitely didn't help coming off the plot high that was the first 3/4ths of the Goku Black arc imo. All I can do is hope the next arc has more in the way of plot to it or at least isn't another tournament.

Depending on how the manga's pacing goes I could see them abridging Ribrianne's role so that instead of fits and starts her battle against 17 and 18 is one uninterrupted fight.

Well tournament can have a compelling plot like how the buu saga was at the beggining,is just that here there there is no tone,compelling antogonist and it just drags making this arc dull,i really want a cool villain like black again.

Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla was Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.

Agreed with Noah my problem with caulifla are only her power ups and that's it.

Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol

Well i met some girls that are headstrong and competitive and i see no one complaining about their attitudes,don't know why everyone have that mindset of girl not being headstrong and competitive in media and real life.

[Doctor.]

Caulifla cried and yelled and learned nothing. Why should we like a character who thinks she's always right?

Because that's exactly what the fandom did with Vegeta. For the entirety of DBZ, he never once admitted that Goku was his superior. Do you honestly claim that Vegeta started having fans in the last few episodes of DBZ when he called Goku #1?

Because Vegeta learned other lessons throughout Z.

[HeroR]

The animation in this arc is really what's saving it for me. There's not enough meat in the execution of this tournament for me and it definitely didn't help coming off the plot high that was the first 3/4ths of the Goku Black arc imo. All I can do is hope the next arc has more in the way of plot to it or at least isn't another tournament.

Depending on how the manga's pacing goes I could see them abridging Ribrianne's role so that instead of fits and starts her battle against 17 and 18 is one uninterrupted fight.

Well tournament can have a compelling plot like how the buu saga was at the beggining,is just that here there there is no tone,compelling antogonist and it just drags making this arc dull,i really want a cool villain like black again.

Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla was Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.

Well i met some girls that are headstrong and competitive and i see no one complaining about their attitudes.Agreed with Noah my problem with caulifla are only her power ups and that's it.

The Buu Saga wasn't the tournament. The tournament was just the setup for everyone to meet Shin and Kibito.

Caulifla cried and yelled and learned nothing. Why should we like a character who thinks she's always right?

Because that's exactly what the fandom did with Vegeta. For the entirety of DBZ, he never once admitted that Goku was his superior. Do you honestly claim that Vegeta started having fans in the last few episodes of DBZ when he called Goku #1?

Because Vegeta learned other lessons throughout Z.

It took Vegeta two sagas to learn something, and that is after he caused the plot for two of them.

[The gr]

The Buu Saga wasn't the tournament. The tournament was just the setup for everyone to meet Shin and Kibito.

True, i'm seeing a lot of people speculating the TOP will be similar to the buu saga that it will lead to another plot line,don't know how to feel about this

[Doctor.]

It took Vegeta two sagas to learn something, and that is after he caused the plot for two of them.

Yes, he was a villain in the first one and learned his lesson in the second one, after becoming a part of the cast. What's the problem here?

[ekrolo2]

Why am I not surprised the sexism card got played to immediately shut down grievances.

[HeroR]

It took Vegeta two sagas to learn something, and that is after he caused the plot for two of them.

Yes, he was a villain in the first one and learned his lesson in the second one, after becoming a part of the cast. What's the problem here?

I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.

The Buu Saga wasn't the tournament. The tournament was just the setup for everyone to meet Shin and Kibito.

True, i'm seeing a lot of people speculating the TOP will be similar to the buu saga that it will lead to another plot line,don't know how to feel about this

If it does lead into another arc, it will probably be closer to the 22nd Tournament.

[Nickolaidas]

Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone.

I *was* talking only about myself. I never said that my stance is everyone's stance.

And if the problem with Caulifla was mainly her lame power-ups, almost all of the fandom should be hating Goku. Guy's pulling power-ups out of his ass all the time.

[mfwlegend3]

you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone.

That's pretty ironic.

I think I speak for everyone when I say FUCK Ribrianne and good riddance. Now I just need to wait a few more episodes to see the whole worthless universe erased to which I will cheer. I really hated that character.

No, you don't.

Yes, he does.

[Doctor.]

I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.

Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

[SansrivaaL]

Just to put my thoughts on this from my perspectives.

Is Gotenks so universally hated as Kefla? If not, why? Isn't he also acting like an arrogant spoiled brat? Didn't he also effortlessly reached the Big Bad's power level without actually breaking a sweat? So why is Kefla any different?

Part of the reason is because Goten's a literal copy paste of Goku in terms of design and Kid ver of Trunks who I already liked since the Cell arc, to top that they're the sons of the 2 big badasses of the series, thats not to say I liked Kid Trunks, I hate his ass, Goten's a meh, and I'm not a fan of Gotenks but I can let it slide due to the reasons I said above (and this was before finding out that half breeds are supposed to be strong) and the next is.. they are literally physically small kids which is a norm when it comes to being a brat.

Why was 18 loved for kicking Vegeta's ass but Caulifla is hated for (somewhat) giving Goku a run for his money?

Unlike a certain noisy cocky all over your face brat, 18 was chill and cold while whoopin ass. One of the problems I have with those saiyan girls is how they leap through powers, its like they skipped a lot of stuffs, I would have been fine if they were already strong and already had SSJ forms prior, but no, they had to show them getting form after form in a short amount of time with little to no effort and some sisterly love. God kill me.

Why was Vegeta praised for fighting Frieza back on Namek despite doing the same things Caulifla did (praising his own self while doing absolutely nothing to hurt the Big Bad)?

Because Vegeta looked like a scrub and even died in the process (badass prince even cried) hence the backlash of actually liking him, unlike Cauli who looked good fighting someone she should be leagues below and still eats her shit like "I would have won that, you just got lucky!" when Vegeta gets like that he normally gets the beating of his lifetime hence the people sympathize.
An example is Ribrianne, I dont like her yeah, but I learned to like her after her loss, she took it like a champ, thats how you earn respect and like from viewers.

[HeroR]

I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.

Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.

[Doctor.]

I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.

Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.

He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.

[Nickolaidas]

I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.

Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.

THANK GOD. I thought I was the only one who felt that way about Vegeta. I also thought that the cell arc 'ruined' him because of taking his backstabbing traits and ambition, and instead turned him into an ass who was obsessed with the protagonist. So basically, like any other previous big bad in early DB except that he actually prolonged his status to every subsequent arc, while Yamcha, Tien and Piccolo stopped being rivals and became ... what's the word? Jobbers, I think?

[Nickolaidas]

Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.

He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.

But you're comparing a Vegeta with 300 episodes on his back with a Caulifla with 20 episodes on her back. Compare Caulifla to an early Vegeta and think of whether Vegeta back then got all the hate Caulifla did.

[Simere]

I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.

He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.

Caulifla very quickly came to respect Goku.

[Noah]

And if the problem with Caulifla was mainly her lame power-ups, almost all of the fandom should be hating Goku. Guy's pulling power-ups out of his ass all the time.

Are you comparing a character that was introduced 6 months ago to the frickin' protagonist? You cannot be serious.

That's pretty ironic.

It's the context that matter and in that stance he did spoke for everyone, good riddance Ribrianne

[HeroR]

Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.

He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.

Your argument was:

Because Vegeta learned other lessons throughout Z.

You said nothing about changing, unless this is the context you meant by Vegeta learning other lessons. My point was that Vegeta didn't learn his lesson in the Cell Saga and it took until the end of the Buu Saga to finally learn his lesson.