"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Lapislettuce]

Yeah, Gohan's most likely out.
How disappointing. And how surprising that 17's still in.

Not surprising at all. 17 recieved more promo and hype before the arc. only hype Gohan got was made from his fans.

[HeroR]

Yeah, Gohan's most likely out.
How disappointing. And how surprising that 17's still in.

Not surprising at all. 17 recieved more promo and hype before the arc. only hype Gohan got was made from his fans.

Not really true since Gohan has the most scene time after Gohan and 17 disappeared for months after 103 and then disappeared again after 110, only to appear again in 115.

[kinisking]

How is Android 17 and Freeza more interesting story wise ? Gohan and Freeza actually have a history, and Gohan was the one who killed cell so 17 owes him one. Freeza and 17 are strangers.

I'd rather see Gohan actually attempt to use strategy instead of Vegeta yelling and freeza oh ho'ing while shooting death beams ( literally 99 percent of his contributions to the tournament ).

Actually, Gohan is the reason why 17 died since he didn't punch him out like he did with 18 and then Cell self-destructed. 17 doesn't owe Gohan anything and who he owes is Krillin who took the bomb out of him.

He owes Krillin but I'm pretty sure killing the person who absorbed you also gives brownie points. I'm not sure if cell self distructing actually killed 17 considering cell regenerated so maybe 17 did too. Although obviously Gohan ended up killing cell and 17 anyways with the Kamehameha. Either way, 17 wouldn't have even gotten the chance to resurrect if Gohan didn't kill cell.

[HeroR]

He owes Krillin but I'm pretty sure killing the person who absorbed you also gives brownie points. I'm not sure if cell self distructing actually killed 17 considering cell regenerated so maybe 17 did too. Although obviously Gohan ended up killing cell and 17 anyways with the Kamehameha. Either way, 17 wouldn't have even gotten the chance to resurrect if Gohan didn't kill cell.

He killed the person who absorbed him after he died to a self-destruct that Gohan could have prevented. It did kill 17. He just went back to his perfect form since his body 'remembered' the power, at according to the dub. Otherwise, he would have gone back to Semi-Perfect Cell since he lost 18.

It was more than Gohan's power given how Cell died, but no one pretends he owes Goku or even Vegeta anything.

[Draconic]

Gohan taking out Dyspo and Freeza fighting Toppo are my only wishes for the arc at this point, so if we are to lose Gohan in the process I don't mind. Especially since 17 is not only in, but in a tag team with Freeza. That makes it up, in my mind. The two have been the most fun to watch U7 warriors trought this arc (UI not included), so seeing them together will be awesome.

[kinisking]

He owes Krillin but I'm pretty sure killing the person who absorbed you also gives brownie points. I'm not sure if cell self distructing actually killed 17 considering cell regenerated so maybe 17 did too. Although obviously Gohan ended up killing cell and 17 anyways with the Kamehameha. Either way, 17 wouldn't have even gotten the chance to resurrect if Gohan didn't kill cell.

He killed the person who absorbed him after he died to a self-destruct that Gohan could have prevented. It did kill 17. He just went back to his perfect form since his body 'remembered' the power, at according to the dub. Otherwise, he would have gone back to Semi-Perfect Cell since he lost 18.

It was more than Gohan's power given how Cell died, but no one pretends he owes Goku or even Vegeta anything.

I never said 17 was alive just because cell was perfect. There's no guarantee 17 died considering cell himself didn't. Even if he did, that literally changes nothing. If it weren't for Gohan, cell would have won and 17 would never have been revived. Gohan was the main player in defeating cell. At the end of the day, he was the Savior even if he needed a little help. There's a reason why they tell 18 Gohan specifically defeated cell. Besides, Gohan wouldn't have needed Vegeta's help if Gohan didn't have to save his life first. Even disregarding that he was the main player, Gohan and 17 have more of a connection than freeza and 17 do. Especially when 17 killed him in the alternate timeline.

[HeroR]

He owes Krillin but I'm pretty sure killing the person who absorbed you also gives brownie points. I'm not sure if cell self distructing actually killed 17 considering cell regenerated so maybe 17 did too. Although obviously Gohan ended up killing cell and 17 anyways with the Kamehameha. Either way, 17 wouldn't have even gotten the chance to resurrect if Gohan didn't kill cell.

He killed the person who absorbed him after he died to a self-destruct that Gohan could have prevented. It did kill 17. He just went back to his perfect form since his body 'remembered' the power, at according to the dub. Otherwise, he would have gone back to Semi-Perfect Cell since he lost 18.

It was more than Gohan's power given how Cell died, but no one pretends he owes Goku or even Vegeta anything.

I never said 17 was alive just because cell was perfect. There's no guarantee 17 died considering cell himself didn't. Even if he did, that literally changes nothing. If it weren't for Gohan, cell would have won and 17 would never have been revived. Gohan was the main player in defeating cell. At the end of the day, he was the Savior even if he needed a little help. There's a reason why they tell 18 Gohan specifically defeated cell. Besides, Gohan wouldn't have needed Vegeta's help if Gohan didn't have to save his life first. Even disregarding that he was the main player, Gohan and 17 have more of a connection than freeza and 17 do. Especially when 17 killed him in the alternate timeline.

Using future counterparts was always weaksauce to me since they’re not the same people.

17 died when Cell blew up and Gohan didn’t really save 17 outside of the broad sense of ‘saving the world’. It’s like Goku and Vegeta saved 17 from Buu since they revived everyone on Earth and Goku killed Buu. Yeah, you could say that, but no one makes that argument.

But I will agree that even if extremely loose, 17 has more history with Gohan than Freeza.

[CriticalThinker]

I know this arc isn't over just yet so this may be a bit premature of me to say but I don't think Gohan was treated as badly as some have been saying. The only character who got terrible treatment throughout this arc was Tien who got shat on in his recruitment episode by Roshi, barely put up a fight against Gohan, and had both a terrible final fight and knockout in the tournament. Say what you will about Krillin and Piccolo but they were treated far better than Tien even though they also got crappy knockouts. Hell I would say Buu got better treatment than Tien even though he didn't make it to the tournament he had a pretty great fight against Basil. Again like I said way earlier people gotta wait until the actual episode airs before they rioting.

[perucho1990]

I know this arc isn't over just yet so this may be a bit premature of me to say but I don't think Gohan was treated as badly as some have been saying. The only character who got terrible treatment throughout this arc was Tien who got shat on in his recruitment episode by Roshi, barely put up a fight against Gohan, and had both a terrible final fight and knockout in the tournament. Say what you will about Krillin and Piccolo but they were treated far better than Tien even though they also got crappy knockouts. Hell I would say Buu got better treatment than Tien even though he didn't make it to the tournament he had a pretty great fight against Basil. Again like I said way earlier people gotta wait until the actual episode airs before they rioting.

Looks like the whole Tien being humilliated was Toei stuff for some reason they hate him, he even had dumb lines like "18, run" when he was about to be eaten by Aniraza.

The whole Gohan hype was also Toei stuff, its clear that they like him thats why they made him Blue level and clashed with Goku.

[supercat]

While nothing is confirmed, there are many implications that Gohan will indeed be the next to go. If so, good riddance. He's already hogged a load of screentime with his boring antics and doesn't appear to have much else going on from a plot standpoint. Android 17 and Frieza teaming up together is far more interesting story-wise; and from an in-universe standpoint, numerous feats strongly imply Android 17 > Gohan.

How is Android 17 and Freeza more interesting story wise ? Gohan and Freeza actually have a history, and Gohan was the one who killed cell so 17 owes him one. Freeza and 17 are strangers.

I'd rather see Gohan actually attempt to use strategy instead of Vegeta yelling and freeza oh ho'ing while shooting death beams ( literally 99 percent of his contributions to the tournament ).

What history? Like that time Frieza, in his weakest form, nonchalantly wrecked him from his hover chair of all places? In all seriousness, Gohan's nonsense is always the same; stops training, power regresses, loved ones goes down on his behalf, whines, realizes he has to train, gets a temporary rage boost, and finally gets put back in his place on the floor where he belongs.

Frieza being around Goku and Vegeta is plenty of history. 17 interacting with Frieza should be quite intriguing. Two powerful former villains whose background we know little about working together to defeat a powerhouse like Toppo is really a lot better than Gohan crying and indirectly looking for a pep talk again.

Besides, I really don't think Gohan could offer much from a power standpoint unless he resorts to that redundantly overused rage boost of his.

[precita]

17 doesn't remotely know or care who Freeza is. Same for Freeza towards him. I don't see much of a dynamic between the two.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

If my boy is going out next episode, let him have a nice 1v1, hopefully Frieza is just 'f this shiiii I'm out' and Gohan and Dyspo battle it out before a double elimination!

[Arg]

Gohan taking out Dyspo and Freeza fighting Toppo are my only wishes for the arc at this point, so if we are to lose Gohan in the process I don't mind. Especially since 17 is not only in, but in a tag team with Freeza. That makes it up, in my mind. The two have been the most fun to watch U7 warriors trought this arc (UI not included), so seeing them together will be awesome.

It's a dynamic I have been curious to see since the u7 team met up for the first time.

[CriticalThinker]

I know this arc isn't over just yet so this may be a bit premature of me to say but I don't think Gohan was treated as badly as some have been saying. The only character who got terrible treatment throughout this arc was Tien who got shat on in his recruitment episode by Roshi, barely put up a fight against Gohan, and had both a terrible final fight and knockout in the tournament. Say what you will about Krillin and Piccolo but they were treated far better than Tien even though they also got crappy knockouts. Hell I would say Buu got better treatment than Tien even though he didn't make it to the tournament he had a pretty great fight against Basil. Again like I said way earlier people gotta wait until the actual episode airs before they rioting.

Looks like the whole Tien being humilliated was Toei stuff for some reason they hate him, he even had dumb lines like "18, run" when he was about to be eaten by Aniraza.

The whole Gohan hype was also Toei stuff, its clear that they like him thats why they made him Blue level and clashed with Goku.

I don't think they hate Tien I think it's more along the lines of them not knowing what to do with him. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure both the anime and manga get a outline from Toriyama. So maybe that outline didn't have much for Tien to do in the first place, and I assume since Tien probably isn't that popular in Japan toei didn't bother to do much with him.

[Lapislettuce]

Are Gohan fans serious ? lol being greedy is really bad kids. he's going to have a battle with Dyspo. if he gets eliminated with Dyspo is it really a bad thing ? i think it makes sense and it means his role is done. i don't get why people had such big expectations for him from the start like getting white hair and defeating someone above god tier. be realistic and stop acting childish and be thankful he was relevant in this arc and had cool moments. i don't see anyone being "outraged" if he gets elminated except greedy fanboys.

[kinisking]

While nothing is confirmed, there are many implications that Gohan will indeed be the next to go. If so, good riddance. He's already hogged a load of screentime with his boring antics and doesn't appear to have much else going on from a plot standpoint. Android 17 and Frieza teaming up together is far more interesting story-wise; and from an in-universe standpoint, numerous feats strongly imply Android 17 > Gohan.

How is Android 17 and Freeza more interesting story wise ? Gohan and Freeza actually have a history, and Gohan was the one who killed cell so 17 owes him one. Freeza and 17 are strangers.

I'd rather see Gohan actually attempt to use strategy instead of Vegeta yelling and freeza oh ho'ing while shooting death beams ( literally 99 percent of his contributions to the tournament ).

What history? Like that time Frieza, in his weakest form, nonchalantly wrecked him from his hover chair of all places? In all seriousness, Gohan's nonsense is always the same; stops training, power regresses, loved ones goes down on his behalf, whines, realizes he has to train, gets a temporary rage boost, and finally gets put back in his place on the floor where he belongs.

Frieza being around Goku and Vegeta is plenty of history. 17 interacting with Frieza should be quite intriguing. Two powerful former villains whose background we know little about working together to defeat a powerhouse like Toppo is really a lot better than Gohan crying and indirectly looking for a pep talk again.

Besides, I really don't think Gohan could offer much from a power standpoint unless he resorts to that redundantly overused rage boost of his.

Gohan and Freeza have been enemies since he was 5 years old. Him and his henchmen have put Gohan through some traumatic shit. Seeing them as allies is more interesting narratively than two total strangers fighting together.

I'm not sure whining and complaining really fit Gohan. Yeah, he gets angry at himself sometimes but that just shows how selfless he is. Besides he was the one who gave Piccolo the pep talk in 118.

Are Gohan fans serious ? lol being greedy is really bad kids. he's going to have a battle with Dyspo. if he gets eliminated with Dyspo is it really a bad thing ? i think it makes sense and it means his role is done. i don't get why people had such big expectations for him from the start like getting white hair and defeating someone above god tier. be realistic and stop acting childish and be thankful he was relevant in this arc and had cool moments. i don't see anyone being "outraged" if he gets elminated except greedy fanboys.

Name one fanbase outside of Roshi and 18 (two unpopular characters that did more than anyone was expecting) that wasn't outraged by their elimination. Piccolo straight steam rolled through u4 for an entire episode and people complained. I'm confused that everyone's getting outraged too considering everyone was expecting him to be the one who fights Dyspo anyways.

[buutenks]

Seems Freeza trying to get a deal with u11 doesnt work since in ep 125, 17 and Freeza go up against Toppo. I assume Gohan and Dyspo are eliminated. Toppo goes GoD mode and pretty much trashes 17 and Freeza, which is proly why vegeta has to leave Jiren be and take on Toppo, since 17 and Freeza are pretty much screwed.

That or, Vegeta does some life risking blow vs Jiren, and Whis or someone says that move or whatever it is has surpassed the GoDs. Then it leaves Freeza and 17 to go up against GoD Toppo.

Actually the Freeza n 17 vs GoD Toppo sounds cooler than say, Vegeta doing some move vs GoD Toppo.

[Lionel]

The more I think about it, the more I feel Vegeta may be the one who ultimately rings Toppo out. We've caught a glimpse of Toppo's deeper wellspring of power. It would take a truly inspired strategy for anyone else besides Goku to eliminate him. I can't see such cleverness from the likes of #17 or Freeza. Universe 7's only alternative is comparable or overwhelming power. Vegeta can provide that with this new form of his. If Toppo's maximum is comparable to SSJBKK then it should be evenly matched. Goku was eventually going to be dueling Jiren one-on-one again anyway. If Toei was going to tally a meaningful victory for Vegeta besides supplementing Goku's war machine then Toppo would be the best offering.

[supercat]

How is Android 17 and Freeza more interesting story wise ? Gohan and Freeza actually have a history, and Gohan was the one who killed cell so 17 owes him one. Freeza and 17 are strangers.

I'd rather see Gohan actually attempt to use strategy instead of Vegeta yelling and freeza oh ho'ing while shooting death beams ( literally 99 percent of his contributions to the tournament ).

What history? Like that time Frieza, in his weakest form, nonchalantly wrecked him from his hover chair of all places? In all seriousness, Gohan's nonsense is always the same; stops training, power regresses, loved ones goes down on his behalf, whines, realizes he has to train, gets a temporary rage boost, and finally gets put back in his place on the floor where he belongs.

Frieza being around Goku and Vegeta is plenty of history. 17 interacting with Frieza should be quite intriguing. Two powerful former villains whose background we know little about working together to defeat a powerhouse like Toppo is really a lot better than Gohan crying and indirectly looking for a pep talk again.

Besides, I really don't think Gohan could offer much from a power standpoint unless he resorts to that redundantly overused rage boost of his.

Gohan and Freeza have been enemies since he was 5 years old. Him and his henchmen have put Gohan through some traumatic shit. Seeing them as allies is more interesting narratively than two total strangers fighting together.

I'm not sure whining and complaining really fit Gohan. Yeah, he gets angry at himself sometimes but that just shows how selfless he is. Besides he was the one who gave Piccolo the pep talk in 118.

Like I said, Frieza has more than enough history with Goku and Vegeta; adding another tagalong to that picture will only taint it with redundancy. The whole former enemies working together to fight a bigger threat approach already delivered it's awe-inspiring touch through all of Goku and Frieza's interactions. In contrast to all of that, Gohan's a nobody who doesn't have nearly as much history with Frieza as his father does. Besides, barring Piccolo and possibly Krillin, who actually respects Gohan? Sorbet of all people mocked and ridiculed him.

Gohan's also a prideless tool that would have no problem working with a former enemy, no matter how terrible of a past they may have had together. Therefore, it's not really a stretch to see him battling alongside Frieza.

Seriously hyped about 17 and Frieza going up against Toppo though. So glad it's not Gohan.

[TheSaiyanGod]

The more I think about it, the more I feel Vegeta may be the one who ultimately rings Toppo out. We've caught a glimpse of Toppo's deeper wellspring of power. It would take a truly inspired strategy for anyone else besides Goku to eliminate him. I can't see such cleverness from the likes of #17 or Freeza. Universe 7's only alternative is comparable or overwhelming power. Vegeta can provide that with this new form of his. If Toppo's maximum is comparable to SSJBKK then it should be evenly matched. Goku was eventually going to be dueling Jiren one-on-one again anyway. If Toei was going to tally a meaningful victory for Vegeta besides supplementing Goku's war machine then Toppo would be the best offering.

Yes, in the exhibition tournament it was believed that Toppo at maximum power was level Goku SSB KK (x2) or something around SSB. But now I believe he will show a much greater power than that, but that is not something Toppo has always had (after all, the synopsis says that something strange happens to him, does not seem to be his own power).

With this new power, it is very difficult for 17 and Freeza to be able to deal with him. So it really is possible for Vegeta to face Toppo. But the title of EP 125 gives a lot of emphasis to Toppo, maybe not even Vegeta's new form is able to beat him, so Vegeta can get a new power up, because he title of EP 126 is ''surpass even a God''.