"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[RedHeat]

How was it just as bad as last episode script wise?

I'll reserve my full judgement for once the subs are out, But the 'sacrifice' was pointless and had no emotional weight to it, Jiren's backstory is awfully generic to the point they shouldn't have even bothered, Freeza feels completely different to the way he was portrayed last episode where he had regained his composure somewhat (and he was already portrayed differently compared to the episode before that) and was just brought in for yet ANOTHER cheap Namek arc reference (that seems to be all that Freeza is good for, in this arc), and the fight is being padded out to the point of annoyance considering Goku and Vegeta are spamming their stamina-heavy forms and their super moves like fucking candy even though they should be out of energy and Jiren is SOMEHOW having trouble with them despite completely destroying Goku back when he was in a healthy state.

....You said it got worse.

It doesn't really mater. They're both terrible and I can't even believe a human being looked at the scrips and thought they were fine. Which one is worse is a petty distinction to make.

They shouldve hired Tite Kubo to do the scripts at least we couldve gotten better antagonists and fleshed out characters.

I don't know who that is.

[Draconic]

I don't really get why 17 can get killed off this episode, but Vegeta has to survive his suicidal attack, only for him to take yet another stab at Jiren alone and get ringed out anyway. Like, what's even the point or prolonging a bunch of this stuff?

This is not a shot taken against Vegeta, btw. I enjoyed him the past couple of episodes, but he's not really doing anything right now. Going out against a God of Destruction would've been a better send off than taking up space doing the same thing he did five episodes ago with even worse results this time (since we know he's taken out by 129).

It would've made last episode better, helped the structure of the story and would've been better for the character. Whatever nice emotional scenes he gets next episode could easily be reworked to fit with his Final Explosion, so even if next episode is great for him, there's no point in it existing.

[darzap]

[spoiler]He's a scary thought for you.....is the guy who slaughtered Jiren's family and friends still alive?

If he is....is that because Jiren can't find him.......or is he even more powerful?[/spoiler]

What about the third option? Jiren realized that his parents were killed by the infamous, faceless, we-couldnt-bother-to-designhim backstory-plot-device-villain. That foe cannot be defeated because if you do, it will just come back to life in another anime series. The frustration drove Jiren so mad, that he trained to become plot-relevant, so that his archenemy would some day get a body, that can be taken down in a movie or sth.

[Totamo]

It was just as bad.

How was it just as bad as last episode script wise?

I'll reserve my full judgement for once the subs are out, But the 'sacrifice' was pointless and had no emotional weight to it, Jiren's backstory is awfully generic to the point they shouldn't have even bothered, Freeza feels completely different to the way he was portrayed last episode where he had regained his composure somewhat (and he was already portrayed differently compared to the episode before that) and was just brought in for yet ANOTHER cheap Namek arc reference (that seems to be all that Freeza is good for, in this arc), and the fight is being padded out to the point of annoyance considering Goku and Vegeta are spamming their stamina-heavy forms and their super moves like fucking candy even though they should be out of energy and Jiren is SOMEHOW having trouble with them despite completely destroying Goku back when he was in a healthy state.

....You said it got worse.

It doesn't really mater. They're both terrible and I can't even believe a human being looked at the scrips and thought they were fine. Which one is worse is a petty distinction to make.

Yeah......You're that guy. There is nothing wrong with generic and you should know that, lots of critical acclaimed shows are by definition are generic so you definitely need a better reason than generic or cheesy to say something is bad. 17's sacrifice has weight for the same reason why 8 had weight, we liked the character and don't want him gone.



The rest of your complaints are things you have already stated and You are literally repeating yourself at this point. There are arc problems and then they are episodic problems, you know like how arcs can be bad but have good episodes. This arc problem is its inconsistent, thus Freeza and the power ups being used.

So tell me what is this episode's problem that you deem it as a petty distinction between the two.

[Jigurashi]

Jiren's past pretty much is like Batman lol.

[Freeza9000]

After watching this episode, I'd much rather prefer a movie focusing on the backstory of Jiren than the Saiyans movie.

[The gr]

[spoiler]Joe chill is back at it again,he murdered Jiren parents[/spoiler]

[Kenneth La Torre]

Really enjoyed this episode. Jirens backstory was surprisingly good. And for people that need to know, Android 17 seemed to have no other choice but to self destruct, otherwise jirens attack would have ringed out anyone, as he can effortlessly break 17s barrier

[dbzfan7]

Vegeta used up all his power, he can barely stand.

*A minute later*

"Let's Go Jiren" *Goes full power*

[Doctor.]

Yeah......You're that guy.

Sounds just like a way to deflect criticism to me. I have no bias against Super; I'm sick of repeating myself that I enjoy the Black arc.

There is nothing wrong with generic and you should know that, lots of critical acclaimed shows are by definition are generic so you definitely need a better reason than generic or cheesy to say something is bad. 17's sacrifice has weight for the same reason why 8 had weight, we liked the character and don't want him gone.

Generic is bad if it's used as a major plot point or it's a defining characteristic of a character. Jiren's entire reason for being, it turns out, is that his family and friends got killed by some super evil guy we'll never actually see. So he decided to become strong. How riveting. That's bad. He was better off without a backstory if they weren't willing to put in the effort to make up something unique.

I don't understand what you mean by #8? He didn't sacrifice himself, unless you mean the Path to Power movie. Regardless, #17's sacrifice holds no weight because the situation surrounding it was stupid. That's enough to take you out of the experience.

The rest of your complaints are things you have already stated and You are literally repeating yourself at this point. There are arc problems and then they are episodic problems, you know like how arcs can be bad but have good episodes. This arc problem is its inconsistent, thus Freeza and the power ups being used.

Yes, I am repeating myself because all the episodes have the same problem. How are you turning this against me when you're even admitting that it's a problem?

So tell me what is this episode's problem that you deem it as a petty distinction between the two.

I already did.

[Lord Frieza]

[spoiler]He's a scary thought for you.....is the guy who slaughtered Jiren's family and friends still alive?

If he is....is that because Jiren can't find him.......or is he even more powerful?[/spoiler]

What about the third option? Jiren realized that his parents were killed by the infamous, faceless, we-couldnt-bother-to-designhim backstory-plot-device-villain. That foe cannot be defeated because if you do, it will just come back to life in another anime series. The frustration drove Jiren so mad, that he trained to become plot-relevant, so that his archenemy would some day get a body, that can be taken down in a movie or sth.

That's both very meta and honestly far more boring (throws option 3 out the window).

Do I hear option 4?

[RedHeat]

Vegeta used up all his power, he can barely stand.

*A minute later*

"Let's Go Jiren" *Goes full power*

Well, at least he's truly out of power in the next episode lol.

[Grimlock]

Any particular reason why the previews are now fifteen seconds instead of the usual thirty seconds?

[BlueBasilisk]

Any particular reason why the previews are now fifteen seconds instead of the usual thirty seconds?

Probably to make more room for ads and the bumper at the front. The subbed versions have the full thing.

[Totamo]

Yeah......You're that guy.

Sounds just like a way to deflect criticism to me. I have no bias against Super; I'm sick of repeating myself that I enjoy the Black arc.

There is nothing wrong with generic and you should know that, lots of critical acclaimed shows are by definition are generic so you definitely need a better reason than generic or cheesy to say something is bad. 17's sacrifice has weight for the same reason why 8 had weight, we liked the character and don't want him gone.

Generic is bad if it's used as a major plot point or it's a defining characteristic of a character. Jiren's entire reason for being, it turns out, is that his family and friends got killed by some super evil guy we'll never actually see. So he decided to become strong. How riveting. That's bad. He was better off without a backstory if they weren't willing to put in the effort to make up something unique.

I don't understand what you mean by #8? He didn't sacrifice himself, unless you mean the Path to Power movie. Regardless, #17's sacrifice holds no weight because the situation surrounding it was stupid. That's enough to take you out of the experience.

The rest of your complaints are things you have already stated and You are literally repeating yourself at this point. There are arc problems and then they are episodic problems, you know like how arcs can be bad but have good episodes. This arc problem is its inconsistent, thus Freeza and the power ups being used.

Yes, I am repeating myself because all the episodes have the same problem. How are you turning this against me when you're even admitting that it's a problem?

So tell me what is this episode's problem that you deem it as a petty distinction between the two.

I already did.

i mean thats blatantly untrue. hero goes on adventure to find a mythical item. i just described one piece, fullmetal alchemist and dragon ball's first arc. You can add all the detail you want but that is basically what those shows are about and by your logic, those shows are bad because of them.

[Doctor.]

i mean thats blatantly untrue. hero goes on adventure to find a mythical item. i just described one piece, fullmetal alchemist and dragon ball's first arc. You can add all the detail you want but that is basically what those shows are about and by your logic, those shows are bad because of them.

Let me clarify myself: using a generic trope superficially as a main plot point is bad.

[Miracles]

It was just as bad.

I have to agree with you. Majority of this tournament of power has been badly written. The fight choreography has been bland and soft, blows lack intensity. As if no one is fighting to survive. Many of the opponents of U7 were mere fodder. The little bit of teamwork game shown wasn't anything to cry home about, outside of a hand full of battles, TOP was bad. I hope TOEI can send us off right with the finale.

[Totamo]

i mean thats blatantly untrue. hero goes on adventure to find a mythical item. i just described one piece, fullmetal alchemist and dragon ball's first arc. You can add all the detail you want but that is basically what those shows are about and by your logic, those shows are bad because of them.

Let me clarify myself: using a generic trope superficially as a main plot point is bad.

But that makes your statement even worse because the shonen genre has tropes that they all use to a T in the form of arcs.


Its basically the not what you do, but how you do it. The question is not is it generic, the question is its does it work.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Jiren's past pretty much is like Batman lol.

Yup, like some predicted

[RedHeat]

i mean thats blatantly untrue. hero goes on adventure to find a mythical item. i just described one piece, fullmetal alchemist and dragon ball's first arc. You can add all the detail you want but that is basically what those shows are about and by your logic, those shows are bad because of them.

Let me clarify myself: using a generic trope superficially as a main plot point is bad.

But that makes your statement even worse because the shonen genre has tropes that they all use to a T in the form of arcs.


Its basically the not what you do, but how you do it. The question is not is it generic, the question is its does it work.

To be a fence-sitter, his back story is fairly generic with an 'evil-doer' killing all of his loved-ones and then Jiren wanting revenge. But I argue that it goes much deeper than that with the fact that even his new friends/teacher ending up being killed and everyone just giving up, until Jiren met the Pride Troopers.