Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[brett wheeler]

to sum up this episode.

everyone:"come on lets work together and we ca-"
jiren:"hakia"
everyone: "wait you arnt a GoD"
jiren:"bitch I said hakia"

sounds about right, also loved his backstory, and the ballsy move of killing 17, RIP #17

He didn’t kill 17. 17 self destructed so that everyone wouldn’t get knocked out.

I know it was a joke on how op jiren is, the fact he isnt A GoD but still beat them even in a 3 on one match with 3 ssb lvl fighters bare minimum, and didnt break a sweat beating the crap out of them, and only took damage because of goku syndrome of letting his gaurd down for no reason at bad timing. Also I was stating that it was ballsy on tioes part in killing 17 off but it was really well exacuted.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm really starting to wonder about Frieza's durability. Every episode he comes back like nothing happened.

Woah, so the guy who got hit with a Genkidama, got sliced in half, got blown up by a massive blast from SS Goku and still survived a planet explosion on top of that has insane durability? Color me shocked.

But he didn't just get back up to keep fighting after that, he would have been finished when he got torn in half if Goku didn't give him energy.

[Doctor.]

I'm really starting to wonder about Frieza's durability. Every episode he comes back like nothing happened.

Woah, so the guy who got hit with a Genkidama, got sliced in half, got blown up by a massive blast from SS Goku and still survived a planet explosion on top of that has insane durability? Color me shocked.

But he didn't just get back up to keep fighting after that, he would have been finished when he got torn in half if Goku didn't give him energy.

Well, the only impressive thing he has done in this tournament in comparison to the others is tank the Hakai. Everyone else has been getting their asses kicked and getting back up, too.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I wonder who is going to be the one to make te other go full power first. Is jiren going to make MUI goku go 100% first, or MUI goku make jiren go 100%? And I want statements god dammit. If it wasn’t for whis in 110, we still would not have known jiren was the mortal above belmod, since they never mention anything of that sort after 110

[AvatarReiko]

I feel like Toei is pushing this "caught off guard" thing way too far and has become a convenient and lazy excuse to justify their bad writing. Can Bulma kill Jiren if she caught him off guard?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I feel like Toei is pushing this "caught off guard" thing way too far and has become a convenient and lazy excuse to justify their bad writing. Can Bulma kill Jiren if she caught him off guard?

I actually have some ideas on this.

When you simply tank an attack because you can, you show disrespect to your opponent, as if they're not worth your time to even block. When you actually trade blows and try to read each other's movements, you treat them with respect by not taking their movements lightly.

The former fighting mentality means that someone who's much lower than you in strength won't be able to do much when you're ready, but it also means that someone who's much higher than you in strength will easily dominate you. The latter fighting mentality means that even lower-tier opponents can give you a good match, but you in turn can do the same with higher-tier opponents.

Treat it like a power level measuring contest, and you'll always lose if someone's stronger than you. Treat it like a fight, and the playing field is more equalized across the board.

[Hugo Boss]

I feel like Toei is pushing this "caught off guard" thing way too far and has become a convenient and lazy excuse to justify their bad writing. Can Bulma kill Jiren if she caught him off guard?

Well, it depends on the kind of weapon she uses. But I would say, probably not. Until this moment, Jiren didn’t have any openings. It’s almost like he is incredibly aware of danger, but if you mix a messy environment, distractions and a ninja-like approaching, you might be able to create one.

[Raphael_Z]

I feel like Toei is pushing this "caught off guard" thing way too far and has become a convenient and lazy excuse to justify their bad writing. Can Bulma kill Jiren if she caught him off guard?

If the weapon is as strong as Sorbet's gun and she aims for a headshot...maybe?

It's also important to realize that MAYBE Hit could have killed Jiren if he had used his assassination techniques that were teased back in the U6-U7 Tournament but he never got to use. Sure, Hit is definitely weaker than Jiren but I have the feeling that his assassination techniques are extremely haxed (like some instant-kill BS like teleporting his fist inside someone's heart/brain or something truly broken like that).

After all, Krillin COULD have killed Frieza if his Kiezan had landed on Frieza's brain/heart instead of his tail. Sometimes power levels mean nothing when it comes to instant-kills. For all we know, Dabura's stone spit is not dependent on power levels...what if he catches Jiren offguard, turns him into stone and then breaks the statue? Hax is hax.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I feel like Toei is pushing this "caught off guard" thing way too far and has become a convenient and lazy excuse to justify their bad writing. Can Bulma kill Jiren if she caught him off guard?

If the weapon is as strong as Sorbet's gun and she aims for a headshot...maybe?

It's also important to realize that MAYBE Hit could have killed Jiren if he had used his assassination techniques that were teased back in the U6-U7 Tournament but he never got to use. Sure, Hit is definitely weaker than Jiren but I have the feeling that his assassination techniques are extremely haxed (like some instant-kill BS like teleporting his fist inside someone's heart/brain or something truly broken like that).

After all, Krillin COULD have killed Frieza if his Kiezan had landed on Frieza's brain/heart instead of his tail. Sometimes power levels mean nothing when it comes to instant-kills. For all we know, Dabura's stone spit is not dependent on power levels...what if he catches Jiren offguard, turns him into stone and then breaks the statue? Hax is hax.

Doubt it, jiren was not only massively suppressed against hit, but he seems to be nearly invulnerable when fighting against one opponent. and if jiren were to just go all out, it would be over in an instant. And I doubt hit could kill any G.o.D, especially a being above a G.o.D

[Rally 07]

Plus this episode sorta solidified and supported the fact that Artificial Human no.17 is indeed God level, and is rivaling Super Saiyan Blues in power. So the redundant downplay claiming No.17 isn't God level should maybe, just stop.

But nevertheless No.17, along with Freeza, Gokou, and Vegeta got demolished by Jiren. But I do find it really impressive that No.17 inflicted some damage to Jiren. In fact, he not only damaged Jiren, but a more powered up, less suppressed Jiren. It's probably more damage done to Jiren than Ultra Instinct Gokou, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, and Hit inflicted upon Jiren. Considering the fact that Jiren took a point-blank, probably unavoidable blast from someone who can charge up as much energy into the attack as need without any drain or limit.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Plus this episode sorta solidified and supported the fact that Artificial Human no.17 is indeed God level, and is rivaling Super Saiyan Blues in power. So the redundant downplay claiming No.17 isn't God level should maybe, just stop.

But nevertheless No.17, along with Freeza, Gokou, and Vegeta got demolished by Jiren. But I do find it really impressive that No.17 inflicted some damage to Jiren. In fact, he not only damaged Jiren, but a more powered up, less suppressed Jiren. It's probably more damage done to Jiren than Ultra Instinct Gokou, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, and Hit inflicted upon Jiren. Considering the fact that Jiren took a point-blank, probably unavoidable blast from someone who can charge up as much energy into the attack as need without any drain or limit.

Jiren being scratch (which it was just that, a scratch) by android 17s blast would have been impressive, it it wasn’t for the fact that it was an unexpected attack from 17. So it’s just an of guard jiren. But since he can put as much energy as he wants a a blast, he can make it very power, in fact, 17 took a lot of damage from his own blast.

17 being on the level of a ssb should have been quite obvious.

[Marlowe89]

I feel like Toei is pushing this "caught off guard" thing way too far and has become a convenient and lazy excuse to justify their bad writing. Can Bulma kill Jiren if she caught him off guard?

Normally I don't have an issue with that particular aspect of Super, but for someone like Jiren I gotta admit it's a bit jarring.

And really, this is just one problem out of several larger narrative-related ones I've had recently with the show. The writing for the past several episodes has certainly left a lot to be desired -- it feels like there's been approximately zero communication between all the guys in charge of scripting every week. I'm definitely expecting more cohesion from the manga in general for this tournament.

[Bullza]

Well he apparently wounded him but Jiren didn't really seem to give much of a shit either way. If he'd been gone down to his knee then I'd have thought it was a bit much considering he tanked a Final Flash but aside from some scratches he wasn't too fussed.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The problem I have is that this totally contradicts 110 where it was stated that Jiren never drops his guard, not even after beating an opponent which is when people are most open. They hyped him up saying even that wasn't a weakness for him yet suddenly he leaves himself open in the middle of battle.

[Boku no Hitto]

Are people just forgetting that 17 can't be sensed?

And why do people think jiren is going all out? He only used his normal punch twice. Maybe three times. One to knock the blue out of Vegeta and the other to Moses Goku's kamehameha.

I do think this is still in line with the first goku v jiren fight and what they told us. Jiren will let you fight as long as you can and as hard as you can before ending it after you've used everything. He was about to do it this episode and 110 and 122 or 23. Jiren is so OP that he can win this in a second so the time imo, probably doesn't even concern him.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Are people just forgetting that 17 can't be sensed?

And why do people think jiren is going all out? He only used his normal punch twice. Maybe three times. One to knock the blue out of Vegeta and the other to Moses Goku's kamehameha.

I do think this is still in line with the first goku v jiren fight and what they told us. Jiren will let you fight as long as you can and as hard as you can before ending it after you've used everything. He was about to do it this episode and 110 and 122 or 23. Jiren is so OP that he can win this in a second so the time imo, probably doesn't even concern him.

It even fits with the expanded character exploration we got.

Strength is the most important thing to him. If he simply roflstomps everyone into the ground, then he's contradicting himself by not allowing them to come at him with their own full strength. This is why Goku, after attaining the Ultra Instinct, intrigued him. He closed the gap in power instantly, which would make Jiren's comment about how Saiyans are interesting and the recent expansion on the character all the more poignant. They can get stronger even when they're beaten down and seemingly done, and so Jiren must respect their strength by always letting them reach their full power.

Man, everything about Jiren seems to be meant to justify his most prominent character traits and flaws.

[Myzt0gun]

Really impressed by Jiren , Android 17 and Vegeta on this Arc, too bad they need to rush end it cause of the anime ending on Ep.131
So just wondering,

Can Jiren beat the Universe 7 fighters all at once? (Goku can't go UI), (Vegeta can go SSB2)
If Jiren stomps
then how about (Jiren vs Universe 7, Universe 6, Universe 9 and Universe 4 fighters all at once?) (No Kefla btw)(Jiren has no idea of Bergamo, Lavender, Hit's abilities)

Also Android 17 vs Piccolo and Mystic Gohan? does 17 stomps? i mean though Jiren was surprised attacked, He still managed to wound Jiren

[picc]

Really impressed by Jiren , Android 17 and Vegeta on this Arc, too bad they need to rush end it cause of the anime ending on Ep.131
So just wondering,

Can Jiren beat the Universe 7 fighters all at once? (Goku can't go UI), (Vegeta can go SSB2)
If Jiren stomps
then how about (Jiren vs Universe 7, Universe 6, Universe 9 and Universe 4 fighters all at once?) (No Kefla btw)(Jiren has no idea of Bergamo, Lavender, Hit's abilities)

Also Android 17 vs Piccolo and Mystic Gohan? does 17 stomps? i mean though Jiren was surprised attacked, He still managed to wound Jiren

Whatever would look the coolest to 9 year olds would happen.

ie. 17 would probably stalemate Piccolo and Gohan

Then if Piccolo became a Namek God, and Gohan turned SSJB Mystic, 17 would likely be at a slight disadvantage and use his infinite energy to stalemate them again.

Basically there's no point trying to figure out strength in Super. Power levels are whatever is most convenient at the time.

[dragon boss z]

So do final form Frieza's new feats against Toppo and Jiren prove he is way above base level. I mean even ssj Goku couldn't make a suppressed Jiren budge but Frieza landed a solid hit and forced a more powered up Jiren to dodge and fight back.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So do final form Frieza's new feats against Toppo and Jiren prove he is way above base level. I mean even ssj Goku couldn't make a suppressed Jiren budge but Frieza landed a solid hit and forced a more powered up Jiren to dodge and fight back.

Well, we see that Jiren is actually bothering to match and block base Vegeta's blows even though he's pretty beat up in the NEP.

I'd say it's just the martial artist's way of always treating your opponent as a threat by blocking and exchanging blows. You basically show disrespect when you simply tank an attack, which I think fits a lot with how fights have gone in the tournament thus far.

Freeza went True Golden to simply tank SS2 Cabba's blast because he hates Saiyans and gets the chance to play around with him, Jiren didn't really bother with Goku until he went SSG, and Jiren let himself take SSB Vegeta's blows at first despite bothering to trade blows with SSB Goku earlier.

Sure, these guys often don't NEED to match their opponents' movements if they're that much stronger, but why take the risk and leave yourself vulnerable when your own power is dwarfed? At least if you exchange blows and treat things like a real fight, you'll be in a better position to take on opponents stronger than yourself and are generally less open.