"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:06 pm

Pure next generation is a bad idea..
Can it be done? Yes, Is it worth it? Noo, it's probably gonna touch your anus then take your money, maybe just the former, I don't know..
Point is, next gen is not gonna work if Toriyama isn't doing it with a whole lotta build up, the current gen is having a hard time walking straight as is, next generation is out of the question..
Definitely not Toie, but maybe, Just maybe, Toyotaro can pull it off, but maybe be can't, he still has a lot to learn from Toriyama..

Goku is the driving force of Dragonball and I cannot stress this enough, his personality brings in the fights in a natural way, a newer generation taking over would either have to have a carbon copy of Goku personality in one of those characters or Dragonball is gonna turn as generic "OP mc fights hidden evil, unlocks new power with love and wins"

A Dragonball MC without Goku's character maybe possible, but it's as useful as stuffing chicken up your ass, not gonna have the kind of fun the stuff was supposed to provide you with..
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:10 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:Pure next generation is a bad idea..
Can it be done? Yes, Is it worth it? Noo, it's probably gonna touch your anus then take your money, maybe just the former, I don't know..
Point is, next gen is not gonna work if Toriyama isn't doing it, the current gen is having a hard time walking straight as is, next generation is out of the question..
Definitely not Toie, but maybe, Just maybe, Toyotaro can pull it off, but maybe be can't, he still has a lot to learn from Toriyama..

Goku is the driving force of Dragonball and I cannot stress this enough, his personality brings in the fights in a natural way, a newer generation taking over would either have to have a carbon copy of Goku personality in one of those characters or Dragonball is gonna turn as generic "OP mc fights hidden evil, unlocks new power with love and wins"

A Dragonball MC without Goku's character maybe possible, but it's as useful as stuffing chicken up your ass, not gonna have the kind of fun the stuff was supposed to provide you with..
Toei can't but Toyotaro can? It's actually the opposite for me. Toei's best writers are much better than Toyotaro and have been even better than Toriyama at times, like in the TV Specials.
Toei with enough time and good writers could produce and outstanding Dragon Ball show. Although I would rather see Toei with time following Toriyama's plots, as barebones as they can be.

A new generation story doesn't have to retire Goku by the way. It could just shift the focus from him at times like it happened in DBZ with Gohan or Goten and Trunks, or in Super with Future Trunks.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:15 pm

emperior wrote: Toei can't but Toyotaro can? It's actually the opposite for me. Toei's best writers are much better than Toyotaro and have been even better than Toriyama at times, like in the TV Specials.
Toei with time and good writers could produce and outstanding Dragon Ball show. Although I would rather see Toei with time following Toriyama's plots, as barebones as they can be..
Toyotaro is one writer working closely with Toriyama and "Toie" has many working much more far away from him and even themselves, you don't have to look for it even then the poor communication between them really shows..
Under similar conditions, yes, Toyotaro will de better..
Maybe I should throw in some more maybe's in there next time..
A new generation story doesn't have to retire Goku by the way. It could just shift the focus from him at times like it happened in DBZ with Gohan or Goten and Trunks, or in Super with Future Trunks
Yeah, that's why I put the Pure next generation at the very beginning
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:24 pm

Ki Breaker wrote: Toyotaro is one writer working closely with Toriyama and "Toie" has many working much more far away from him and even themselves, you don't have to look for it even then the poor communication between them really shows..
Under similar conditions, yes, Toyotaro will de better..
Maybe I should throw in some more maybe's in there next time..
A new generation story doesn't have to retire Goku by the way. It could just shift the focus from him at times like it happened in DBZ with Gohan or Goten and Trunks, or in Super with Future Trunks
Yeah, that's why I put the Pure next generation at the very beginning
People keep saying the 'writers don't talk to each other in Super' when they clearly do and even then, they don't have control what happens in the episode. That's the director of the show. They just put together what happens.

And Toyo being 'one writer working closely with Toriyama' doesn't mean the writer quality is good and you only have to looked at the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:40 pm

If the next arc is EOZ, which literally starts off with Goku training Uub, Trunks and Goten being fighters, and the initial hype of Pan, and they don't do anything with them in the next series...that's ridiculous.

You can also clearly tell how much Toei loves Pan and wants to promote her, but couldn't because she was a baby. Pan in EOZ can be promoted like kid Gohan was in the Saiyan arc. Trunks and Goten will be the new Tien and Yamcha. Uub will be another kid-Gohan type character. And hopefully Gohan himself takes Piccolo's role.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by OverHeaven » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:42 pm

Totamo wrote:Come on, man. There are other ways to get the point that Toriyama wouldn't reboot his series or use new gen other than insulting him which you did.
I don't see "doesn't have the balls" as a personal insult or offensive line and that was not my intention. If you saw it like that then I'm sorry, people have a different perspective on things after all. If you don't like it you can replace it with of the lines that were mentioned by some members here.

-And why do you talk as if new gen = new characters that have zero things related to original one? I never said that Goku should disappear completely without a single trace or mention of him as if he doesn't exist at all.
5. Joseph is a punk wuth a good heart. Jotaro is a punk with a good heart. Josuke is a punk with a good heart. Giornno is a gangstar with a good heart and joline is a punk with a good heart. Jonny is a straight jackass but understandable since he is crippled and all.
I don't know if you are serious here or not, it seems like you are just arguing for the sake of it. or because you took my word as an insult to Toriyama and is just angry about it. is this really against my "different personalities and attitudes" point?
-Joseph is the kind of protagonist that can cheat and do dirty tricks to win and tell ridiculous jokes mid serious battles.
-Josuke is a bit similar but he's more serious and kind of an average guy, the difference between him and Jotaro is clear in part 4 and how they act.
-Giorno is obviously the quiet guy that takes everything seriously all the time, how can you say he's similar to Joseph with just "punk/gangstar with a good heart"? A simple counter to your argument is that JoJo fans have diverse opinions regarding the order of best JoJo protagonists. That show how different they are from each other.
I could easily think of a simple sentence that describes the vast majority of Dragon Ball characters such as "idiot who want to get stronger" if you want it like this.
They both have a very strong impact on the series as a whole, that you simply can't ignore.
Okay? "Dio is the reason Giornno even exists" Yeah, except he was only mentioned in the first few chapters and to the remaining of the part Giorno is his own new character and did't give a single shit about Dio.
"Jonny Joestar full name is Jonathan Joestar " Ok now he is the same character with same personality and power and everything. Turns out Goku's son is, in fact, his grandfather from part 1 all along. *mind blown*
-Also popularity and how iconic a character is is not something the mangaka has a control on. What matters is how to deal with it

I could go on and on but sadly I really feel like this is going nowhere.
We've gone far off topic in fact

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Whatever » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:09 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:Pure next generation is a bad idea..
Definitely not Toie, but maybe, Just maybe, Toyotaro can pull it off, but maybe be can't, he still has a lot to learn from Toriyama..
So you are saying Toyotaro cannot do it unless Toriyama holds his hand,that does not sound like a good writer to me....
Nvm that someone like Toshio knows the characters way better than Toyotaro.
[A Dragonball MC without Goku's character maybe possible, but it's as useful as stuffing chicken up your ass, not gonna have the kind of fun the stuff was supposed to provide you with..
I will assume you are talking from experience and take up your word for this.
emperior wrote:A new generation story doesn't have to retire Goku by the way. It could just shift the focus from him at times like it happened in DBZ with Gohan or Goten and Trunks, or in Super with Future Trunks
Gohan's inclusion only worked well in super and in the freeza saga,in the cell games and 2nd half of the buu saga he was shoehorned in there in a bad way.
Goten and Trunks were horrible both in character and in the way they were shoehorned into the spotlight.
Future Trunks worked greatly because the arc was centered around him.

Putting them in there just for the sake of 'next generation' stuff is not only pointless but a bad way to go around with this.
This needs some groundwork to work with(which only Gohan has at the moment) and even then you have to ask yourself,is it really worth it?

Is it really worth it when most of the new generation outside of Gohan have very little to nothing character?
We already have much better characters that could be worked on,no need to clog the cast more.
Gohan is enough representation for the new generation.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Rebel Instinct » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:05 pm

HeroR wrote:doesn't mean the writer quality is good and you only have to looked at the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.
Out of curiosity, is this meant to imply that the manga version of the Future Trunks arc was objectively badly written, or is this just your personal take? Some people thought it was pretty good. Are those people wrong for thinking so?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:15 pm

Rebel Instinct wrote:
HeroR wrote:doesn't mean the writer quality is good and you only have to looked at the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.
Out of curiosity, is this meant to imply that the manga version of the Future Trunks arc was objectively badly written, or is this just your personal take? Some people thought it was pretty good. Are those people wrong for thinking so?
The Future Trunks Saga of the manga has parts that were objectively not well-written and I would never claimed someone is wrong for liking something. But as a FYI, liking something doesn't necessary means it's good writing. For example, I like the Batman and Robin movie despite knowing it isn't a very good movie, and no I'm not saying the manga is Batman and Robin, just an example of saying liking isn't always quality, at least to me.



On another subject, not sure if part two of sample of the official soundtrack was posted here. Warning, last track is a possible spoiler:

https://youtu.be/MyHJIOvMMH8
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Rebel Instinct » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:37 pm

HeroR wrote:
Rebel Instinct wrote:
HeroR wrote:doesn't mean the writer quality is good and you only have to looked at the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.
Out of curiosity, is this meant to imply that the manga version of the Future Trunks arc was objectively badly written, or is this just your personal take? Some people thought it was pretty good. Are those people wrong for thinking so?
The Future Trunks Saga of the manga has parts that were objectively not well-written and I would never claimed someone is wrong for liking something. But as a FYI, liking something doesn't necessary means it's good writing. For example, I like the Batman and Robin movie despite knowing it isn't a very good movie, and no I'm not saying the manga is Batman and Robin, just an example of saying liking isn't always quality, at least to me.
Which parts do you consider to be objectively badly written? Would you say that there were parts of the anime version that were also objectively badly written?? If so, which ones? How do you define objectively badly written?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:07 pm

Rebel Instinct wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Rebel Instinct wrote: Out of curiosity, is this meant to imply that the manga version of the Future Trunks arc was objectively badly written, or is this just your personal take? Some people thought it was pretty good. Are those people wrong for thinking so?
The Future Trunks Saga of the manga has parts that were objectively not well-written and I would never claimed someone is wrong for liking something. But as a FYI, liking something doesn't necessary means it's good writing. For example, I like the Batman and Robin movie despite knowing it isn't a very good movie, and no I'm not saying the manga is Batman and Robin, just an example of saying liking isn't always quality, at least to me.
Which parts do you consider to be objectively badly written? Would you say that there were parts of the anime version that were also objectively badly written?? If so, which ones? How do you define objectively badly written?
This isn’t the place for it, but I will give an example of objectively bad writing for both:

The anime - Trunks’ Spirit Sword. It’s an utter AssPull. I mean, I loved the theme they were going for and Trunks getting the ‘kill’, but really? They couldn’t be bothered to explained where the heck this thing came from and give Goku a passing line? Come on now, this is just lazy.

The manga - Healer Trunks. So the Supreme Kai put Trunks through a ritual and he got healing powers. Why didn’t the Supreme Kai ever tell Trunks this? Trunks could have literally saved his life when he was mortally injured. And why even put Trunks through the ritual if he wasn’t even going to bother to tell him what it did and why didn’t Trunks asked what was going on? And the way Toyo wrote it in. He claimed Trunks unconsciously healed Mai and Gowasu. Fair enough on Gowasu, but I call BS on Mai. Trunks ‘healed’ her, yet she remained unconscious in the rubble for days. At least Gowasu regained consciousness somewhat after Trunks touched him. This reeks of not planning ahead. Finally, healer Trunks has a heal limit. Why? No healer in the entire franchise has one, yet Trunks can’t fully heal a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because they’re too powerful, while non-fighter Dende could fully heal Ulimate Gohan in the Buu Saga. It was like Toyo got too afraid of making Trunks too powerful and put a cap on him like a Dokkan Card. So while Healer Trunks is better explained than the Spirit Sword, it still comes off as an AssPull. It honestly annoys me more than the Spirit Sword because of all the story implications it has and how it makes the Supreme Kai, Trunks, and Kibito looked like morons.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Rebel Instinct » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:29 pm

HeroR wrote:This isn’t the place for it, but I will give an example of objectively bad writing for both:

The anime - Trunks’ Spirit Sword. It’s an utter AssPull. I mean, I loved the theme they were going for and Trunks getting the ‘kill’, but really? They couldn’t be bothered to explained where the heck this thing came from and give Goku a passing line? Come on now, this is just lazy.

The manga - Healer Trunks. So the Supreme Kai put Trunks through a ritual and he got healing powers. Why didn’t the Supreme Kai ever tell Trunks this? Trunks could have literally saved his life when he was mortally injured. And why even put Trunks through the ritual if he wasn’t even going to bother to tell him what it did and why didn’t Trunks asked what was going on? And the way Toyo wrote it in. He claimed Trunks unconsciously healed Mai and Gowasu. Fair enough on Gowasu, but I call BS on Mai. Trunks ‘healed’ her, yet she remained unconscious in the rubble for days. At least Gowasu regained consciousness somewhat after Trunks touched him. This reeks of not planning ahead. Finally, healer Trunks has a heal limit. Why? No healer in the entire franchise has one, yet Trunks can’t fully heal a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because they’re too powerful, while non-fighter Dende could fully heal Ulimate Gohan in the Buu Saga. It was like Toyo got too afraid of making Trunks too powerful and put a cap on him like a Dokkan Card. So while Healer Trunks is better explained than the Spirit Sword, it still comes off as an AssPull. It honestly annoys me more than the Spirit Sword because of all the story implications it has and how it makes the Supreme Kai, Trunks, and Kibito looked like morons.
Okay, one last thing: If I'm understanding you properly, you feel that the Spirit Sword was the more egregious "asspull" and the healing ability was better explained by comparison, but personally dislike the healing ability more because of the implications it carried. Is this correct?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:35 pm

Rebel Instinct wrote:
HeroR wrote:This isn’t the place for it, but I will give an example of objectively bad writing for both:

The anime - Trunks’ Spirit Sword. It’s an utter AssPull. I mean, I loved the theme they were going for and Trunks getting the ‘kill’, but really? They couldn’t be bothered to explained where the heck this thing came from and give Goku a passing line? Come on now, this is just lazy.

The manga - Healer Trunks. So the Supreme Kai put Trunks through a ritual and he got healing powers. Why didn’t the Supreme Kai ever tell Trunks this? Trunks could have literally saved his life when he was mortally injured. And why even put Trunks through the ritual if he wasn’t even going to bother to tell him what it did and why didn’t Trunks asked what was going on? And the way Toyo wrote it in. He claimed Trunks unconsciously healed Mai and Gowasu. Fair enough on Gowasu, but I call BS on Mai. Trunks ‘healed’ her, yet she remained unconscious in the rubble for days. At least Gowasu regained consciousness somewhat after Trunks touched him. This reeks of not planning ahead. Finally, healer Trunks has a heal limit. Why? No healer in the entire franchise has one, yet Trunks can’t fully heal a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because they’re too powerful, while non-fighter Dende could fully heal Ulimate Gohan in the Buu Saga. It was like Toyo got too afraid of making Trunks too powerful and put a cap on him like a Dokkan Card. So while Healer Trunks is better explained than the Spirit Sword, it still comes off as an AssPull. It honestly annoys me more than the Spirit Sword because of all the story implications it has and how it makes the Supreme Kai, Trunks, and Kibito looked like morons.
Okay, one last thing: If I'm understanding you properly, you feel that the Spirit Sword was the more egregious "asspull" and the healing ability was better explained by comparison, but personally dislike the healing ability more because of the implications it carried. Is this correct?
The Spirit Sword was a worst AssPull since the anime never bothered to explained it. That’s just lazy.

Healer Trunks got an explanation, but the explanation is nonsense and has far greater story implications. The entire plot may have been avoided if the Supreme Kai told Trunks he had healing powers and there’s no explaination given why he didn’t tell him. He just didn’t.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:05 pm

Trunks' genki dama sword is an asspull, but the biggest asspull is Trunks matching Zamasu's BP with some ki given by a mostly dead world and 2 out of energy saiyans. I liked how xenoverse 2( i think it was in that game) did it way more.

Ofc i dont mind much, since Zamasu craps on all that the next episode, so it gets a pass from me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by darzap » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:26 pm

precita wrote:If the next arc is EOZ, which literally starts off with Goku training Uub, Trunks and Goten being fighters, and the initial hype of Pan, and they don't do anything with them in the next series...that's ridiculous.
You say it's ridiculous if they don't do much with them because of your assumption that they have to be prominent. But that's just an assumption and in fact, it's funny that you chose EOZ to support your point, because EOZ is one more example that proves you wrong: You argue that, the way EOZ played out, the new generation just has to takeover. But what did they do after EOZ? Goku TIme!

You can say that you want it to happen, but claiming that they hint at it or that they have no choice is simply not true. There is no hinting at all at this moment. The past has shown that even if there was strong hinting, even explicit statements about a change of guard, it always came to Goku, but right now we don't even have those hints.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:37 pm

I doubt Toei has the guts to write a story at the same GT timeline.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:46 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:I doubt Toei has the guts to write a story at the same GT timeline.
They don’t have the guts to connect a failed and very popular produced with a successful one? Most wouldn’t.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Basaku » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:49 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:I doubt Toei has the guts to write a story at the same GT timeline.
Well, what other options are there that would excite the fanbase on the same level as new Z (and Super) sequel? I could see Future Trunks spinoff anime being popular, but it would never be seen as the true main continuation of the story (unless it actually featured the entire cast heavily and directly followed EOZ)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:53 pm

HeroR wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote: Toyotaro is one writer working closely with Toriyama and "Toie" has many working much more far away from him and even themselves, you don't have to look for it even then the poor communication between them really shows..
Under similar conditions, yes, Toyotaro will de better..
Maybe I should throw in some more maybe's in there next time..
A new generation story doesn't have to retire Goku by the way. It could just shift the focus from him at times like it happened in DBZ with Gohan or Goten and Trunks, or in Super with Future Trunks
Yeah, that's why I put the Pure next generation at the very beginning
People keep saying the 'writers don't talk to each other in Super' when they clearly do and even then, they don't have control what happens in the episode. That's the director of the show. They just put together what happens.

And Toyo being 'one writer working closely with Toriyama' doesn't mean the writer quality is good and you only have to looked at the manga version of the Future Trunks Saga.
That is not how that works. The writer tells the director what he is suppose to show. The writer tells the actor what he suppose to say. If Toriyama wrote Goku kills Freeza, the director can't change that.


Writing is the least difficult yet most important part of a show.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:59 pm

HeroR wrote:They don’t have the guts to connect a failed and very popular produced with a successful one? Most wouldn’t.
GT figures that until today as the new content on Heroes too, some fans consider to be superior than Super, so I don't see how is a failed product, bad? Yes, but that's subjective.
Basaku wrote:Well, what other options are there that would excite the fanbase on the same level as new Z (and Super) sequel? I could see Future Trunks spinoff anime being popular, but it would never be seen as the true main continuation of the story (unless it actually featured the entire cast heavily and directly followed EOZ)
They can always do plenty of movies and OVAs, don't know why fans are in such a urge for a new anime series, I would be just fine if the franchise took a time on that, we waited 18 years for Super after all.
Last edited by jeffbr92 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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