"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Kataphrut]

We've seen a lot of fighters going shirtless in the last leg of the tourney, but for some reason shirtless Jiren look the most..."bro-y" to me. Like, he looks like he's about to take you out the back to show you the dead croc he just shot. "Nah mate, the dogs don't bite. Not unless I tell 'em to..."

I know what he is. The white skin, the bald head: he's a super ripped version of a Fury Road warboy. His wish on the Super Dragon Balls is to be awaited at the gates of Valhalla.

[BlueBasilisk]

His wish on the Super Dragon Balls is to be awaited at the gates of Valhalla.

He is shiny and chrome. Just check his WCF figure.

[DBZ Macky]

I know what he is. The white skin, the bald head: he's a super ripped version of a Fury Road warboy.

Nah, he's the one and only True Alpha Male Jiren. He's the silent jock stereotype dialed up to an universe 11.

[perucho1990]

The battle should end in the next episode because they will probably waste all of the budget and top tier animators in it aside from Takahashi, I know some are praying Toei is using the same strategy as the Kefla fight, that Episode 129= Episode 115, so Episode 130 turns out as good as episode 116?

[Olympian]

First of all, my apologies for taking long to reply, it was a hectic week.

So, let`s go

1. I thought you said Vegeta crying was the meme. You know because it makes him look like a fool.

It is a meme and one that keeps growing as we speak. He`s got more and neither he or Yamcha are the only characters meme worthy in the franchise.

2.How was that a stalemate? Goku was the only one who got a hit in and Yamcha was on the ground. Plus He ran away. That movie is noncanon and You know it so why the hell are you using that as proof?

It`s a stalemate because neither round is conclusive to a T. Yamcha could have killed Goku in the first if not for Bulma and Goku looked better in the second go but without any major advantage, because as noted, Yamcha`s vanity was more hurt over anything else.

3. Hercule isn't a fighter and I never said he was but the fact remains that he did save the world not just with Buu but by encouraging the world to give energy to Goku. What did Yamcha do in the Buu saga?

Yamcha saved the world as well and was a figther. So?

4. Yamcha fought them head on and he lost fights, Krillin used his intelligence and he won fights. Who is the better fighter? The won who wins. And its funny how you say I let Krillin's cockiness go but you also have seem to let Yamcha's cockiness go. I didn't even bring those up.

I brought it up because you clearly don`t care to mention and only pinpoint the cockiness when it suits you. And it shouldn`t be funny at all considering I mention
Yamcha`s faults plenty of times. I have no need to pretend they don`t exist to paint him differently as you been doing with Kuririn.

5. What the.... Tien tanked it like it was nothing and Goku's kamehameha was on par with Roshi so how did Goku not master the kamehameha before Yamcha did when his actually did something? Krillin's also hurt Chaiotzu and he was insulting Yamcha by performing it basically saying if Yamcha can do it so can I and he does and his actually harmed his opponent. Sure Chaiozu is way way weaker than Tien but the point stands, Krillin pulled it off once as did Goku while Yamcha had to learn it over time.

No, no.

The first time Goku uses the Kamehameha is after he sees Roshi stopping the fire at Ox-King`s castle. He copied it but didn`t master it until later on.

Kuririn tried to pull the same gambit Yamcha did and the line goes with exactly with that. His intent was to go all or nothing (he even spells it in such a way) but unlike Yamcha he especifically failed to do so and we are told this by the person who created the move. Tenshinhan didn`t tank anything, he reflected it. That`s why everyone`s attention is at the path of destruction the reverted Kamehameha makes when he blindsides Yamcha with the kick. Only Goku was looking at him.

The only character at the Tournament tanking a full Kame Wave with his bare hands was Roshi and even then he did it in a way that most of the blast was pushed away from the audience.

The other one you can especulate who could do it is Goku since he virtually gives the hand to Kuririn but here Goku esplicitally claims his Kame won`t be able to do anything to him so you can take your own ilations from the statement.

You can't use dialogue that contradicts the visuals of what is being told. Thats not how manga reading works and its not how anime watching works either. Dragon ball is not a book, its a manga

A Manga is a storytelling format similar in structures to a Comic, Fumatti or Bande-Dessiné. Dialogue and plot are supposed to go along with the visuals.

6. I just told you its hindsight I'm using. We can do this for all of the characters if you like but this will only make Yamcha look worse than before.

Look worse in what way, again?

Do you believe I have any investiment in the way you look at the character`s personal life? This is about a statement of yours that forces a character in a box by the creator since his inception because "reasons!".

I have yet to see compelling ones that are unique to him.

7. I have never been angry at the Goku is a villain or a shitty father trope because it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the character. I have even straight up said Goku isn't a hero and hindsight on dragon ball can prove that

Don`t have the time to go check if you have shown your discontent with the memes in the Forum but I`m not on the fence of pretending all fans of a character are alike.

If you`re okay with it, more power to you. The meme still exists and keeps being perpetuated.

8. Context only matters when it doesn't contradict what is being shown. No one in the fandom can say Vegeta was smart in the Cell saga even with context because it all gets blast to the wall when you realize what it all leads to

The context in those scenes is that he`s an arrogant asshole who lets his jealously at Goku cloud his mind, not that`s he`s stupid. He was certainly tactical minded at Namek.

9. He wasn't civil with Vegeta, he barely spoke to Vegeta because Yamcha took Goku back to his house and stayed their for most of the saga. I don't see how that was courageous, Vegeta was an asshole back then and probably would have insulted the boy. Also Post friends with Bulma....I know several of my friends who are jealous of their past flings that are friends with them and even then the interactions are so miniscule. What girlfriend? We never see her!!!

Let`s see, he was at Capsule Corp by the time Vegeta was a pink Badman and we see a scene with him and the other two ready for a table, he`s the one calming Tenshinhan down when they see Vegeta again, he`s the one that tells Trunks the words he was waiting to hear and that his father never had the balls to tell him and when Vegeta, under his own choice, goes Majin, he`s the one consoling Bulma.

In fact, he still spends quite the time with Bulma at Capsule Corp. The Girlfriend is mentioned in the Cell Finale. Why do you care if you see her? Fandom can`t win either way, either he was a cheater and thus had other women or Bulma was a liar. You can pick whatever you want.

10. I never once said Toei never cared for him, I said Toei has maximize on the Yamcha meme and thats not something you can deny

Oh, you did and in the beginning of the conversation, but okay.

11. I made no excuse for gags of other characters when it comes to joke fights. The problem is, Yamcha's victories come form Joke fights. I don't even count any of Goku's victories in the Fortune teller Baba arc up until Grandpa Gohan because of them. Dragon ball was a gag manga for a good bit and a lot of the fights can't be taken seriously

Taking Oozaru down is not a joke fight and dismissing a whole section of the manga because of comedic qualities is part of the (your) issue, not mine.

I mean, you certainly account Krillin`s wins over Chiatzu and Goku so to speak and yet Chiatzu only being defeated because he couldn`t do simple Math was a gag element. Goku being naively dumb to a fault was a gag element.

12. how about we agree to disagree, ok?

Sure. I said what I had to say and I am satisfied.

[Olympian]

His wish on the Super Dragon Balls is to be awaited at the gates of Valhalla.

He is shiny and chrome. Just check his WCF figure.

Witness Me

Jiren is going full War boy mode and Goku Blanco finally opened his Seventh Sense of Cosmos where they move soo fast they look to be standing still when they hit you.

This is bananas.

[Totamo]

First of all, my apologies for taking long to reply, it was a hectic week.

So, let`s go

1. I thought you said Vegeta crying was the meme. You know because it makes him look like a fool.

It is a meme and one that keeps growing as we speak. He`s got more and neither he or Yamcha are the only characters meme worthy in the franchise.

2.How was that a stalemate? Goku was the only one who got a hit in and Yamcha was on the ground. Plus He ran away. That movie is noncanon and You know it so why the hell are you using that as proof?

It`s a stalemate because neither round is conclusive to a T. Yamcha could have killed Goku in the first if not for Bulma and Goku looked better in the second go but without any major advantage, because as noted, Yamcha`s vanity was more hurt over anything else.

3. Hercule isn't a fighter and I never said he was but the fact remains that he did save the world not just with Buu but by encouraging the world to give energy to Goku. What did Yamcha do in the Buu saga?

Yamcha saved the world as well and was a figther. So?

4. Yamcha fought them head on and he lost fights, Krillin used his intelligence and he won fights. Who is the better fighter? The won who wins. And its funny how you say I let Krillin's cockiness go but you also have seem to let Yamcha's cockiness go. I didn't even bring those up.

I brought it up because you clearly don`t care to mention and only pinpoint the cockiness when it suits you. And it shouldn`t be funny at all considering I mention
Yamcha`s faults plenty of times. I have no need to pretend they don`t exist to paint him differently as you been doing with Kuririn.

5. What the.... Tien tanked it like it was nothing and Goku's kamehameha was on par with Roshi so how did Goku not master the kamehameha before Yamcha did when his actually did something? Krillin's also hurt Chaiotzu and he was insulting Yamcha by performing it basically saying if Yamcha can do it so can I and he does and his actually harmed his opponent. Sure Chaiozu is way way weaker than Tien but the point stands, Krillin pulled it off once as did Goku while Yamcha had to learn it over time.

No, no.

The first time Goku uses the Kamehameha is after he sees Roshi stopping the fire at Ox-King`s castle. He copied it but didn`t master it until later on.

Kuririn tried to pull the same gambit Yamcha did and the line goes with exactly with that. His intent was to go all or nothing (he even spells it in such a way) but unlike Yamcha he especifically failed to do so and we are told this by the person who created the move. Tenshinhan didn`t tank anything, he reflected it. That`s why everyone`s attention is at the path of destruction the reverted Kamehameha makes when he blindsides Yamcha with the kick. Only Goku was looking at him.

The only character at the Tournament tanking a full Kame Wave with his bare hands was Roshi and even then he did it in a way that most of the blast was pushed away from the audience.

The other one you can especulate who could do it is Goku since he virtually gives the hand to Kuririn but here Goku esplicitally claims his Kame won`t be able to do anything to him so you can take your own ilations from the statement.

You can't use dialogue that contradicts the visuals of what is being told. Thats not how manga reading works and its not how anime watching works either. Dragon ball is not a book, its a manga

A Manga is a storytelling format similar in structures to a Comic, Fumatti or Bande-Dessiné. Dialogue and plot are supposed to go along with the visuals.

6. I just told you its hindsight I'm using. We can do this for all of the characters if you like but this will only make Yamcha look worse than before.

Look worse in what way, again?

Do you believe I have any investiment in the way you look at the character`s personal life? This is about a statement of yours that forces a character in a box by the creator since his inception because "reasons!".

I have yet to see compelling ones that are unique to him.

7. I have never been angry at the Goku is a villain or a shitty father trope because it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the character. I have even straight up said Goku isn't a hero and hindsight on dragon ball can prove that

Don`t have the time to go check if you have shown your discontent with the memes in the Forum but I`m not on the fence of pretending all fans of a character are alike.

If you`re okay with it, more power to you. The meme still exists and keeps being perpetuated.

8. Context only matters when it doesn't contradict what is being shown. No one in the fandom can say Vegeta was smart in the Cell saga even with context because it all gets blast to the wall when you realize what it all leads to

The context in those scenes is that he`s an arrogant asshole who lets his jealously at Goku cloud his mind, not that`s he`s stupid. He was certainly tactical minded at Namek.

9. He wasn't civil with Vegeta, he barely spoke to Vegeta because Yamcha took Goku back to his house and stayed their for most of the saga. I don't see how that was courageous, Vegeta was an asshole back then and probably would have insulted the boy. Also Post friends with Bulma....I know several of my friends who are jealous of their past flings that are friends with them and even then the interactions are so miniscule. What girlfriend? We never see her!!!

Let`s see, he was at Capsule Corp by the time Vegeta was a pink Badman and we see a scene with him and the other two ready for a table, he`s the one calming Tenshinhan down when they see Vegeta again, he`s the one that tells Trunks the words he was waiting to hear and that his father never had the balls to tell him and when Vegeta, under his own choice, goes Majin, he`s the one consoling Bulma.

In fact, he still spends quite the time with Bulma at Capsule Corp. The Girlfriend is mentioned in the Cell Finale. Why do you care if you see her? Fandom can`t win either way, either he was a cheater and thus had other women or Bulma was a liar. You can pick whatever you want.

10. I never once said Toei never cared for him, I said Toei has maximize on the Yamcha meme and thats not something you can deny

Oh, you did and in the beginning of the conversation, but okay.

11. I made no excuse for gags of other characters when it comes to joke fights. The problem is, Yamcha's victories come form Joke fights. I don't even count any of Goku's victories in the Fortune teller Baba arc up until Grandpa Gohan because of them. Dragon ball was a gag manga for a good bit and a lot of the fights can't be taken seriously

Taking Oozaru down is not a joke fight and dismissing a whole section of the manga because of comedic qualities is part of the (your) issue, not mine.

I mean, you certainly account Krillin`s wins over Chiatzu and Goku so to speak and yet Chiatzu only being defeated because he couldn`t do simple Math was a gag element. Goku being naively dumb to a fault was a gag element.

12. how about we agree to disagree, ok?

Sure. I said what I had to say and I am satisfied.

You know what? I have done some thinking, watched some OG dragon ball over again and realize that if I look at his scenes without the memes and without the hindisght, he does look actually fine in some scenes. I should apologize for saying he was always a joke.


What I should have said at the beginning was, the power creep has affected all the heroes, but it was humans first and worst and no human got it worse than he did. Outside of filler, Z was not kind to him. Tien had his nappa, semi perfect cell and super buu moment and Krillin was on namek.



And thats what I was trying but failing to get across: Yamcha was not always a joke, but super did not make him one. Z did that and you can't blame it on this show or Toriyama or Toei if you cannot say, Z started this.

[CriticalThinker]

So I just found one reason why I dislike Jiren and its because he reminds me of Broly, but a boring Broly. Like I was fine with his fight between Goku in 109-110 and his fight against Hit. My problem is that the final has really dragged out the fight with Jiren and it quickly became boring and if anything made him look less impressive. Sure he can no sell everything still yet for some reason he can't knock out Goku or Vegeta. Why that is I dunno maybe Jiren has some reason or ulterior motive for not knocking them out right but I highly doubt it. If anything I wish that Toppo and Dyspo weren't wasted so quickly in the finale because I would have gladly taken more of those two over Jiren no selling stuff for multiple episodes, because it got old quick. Sorry for sounding like a big ole negative Nancy but outside of 125 and 127 this final has been pretty disappointing to me.

[Xeogran]

Jiren STILL not revealing his wish is absurdal at this point. The series is ending and we don't know what the final boss is even fighting for.

He's like a wall not a character, I tried to defend him at first but he's just so boring. Not even his attacks are named nor visually fun.

[GodKaio-Ken]

After hearing Super was ending it sapped me....so I stopped watching the last few weeks.

This morning I binged 124-129 and I actually think it's some of the best overall work in the series.

[Ki Breaker]

They better revive 17, he had a fucking family who is probably never even gonna know what happened to him if they don't revive him..

[YonedgeHP]

The battle should end in the next episode because they will probably waste all of the budget and top tier animators in it aside from Takahashi, I know some are praying Toei is using the same strategy as the Kefla fight, that Episode 129= Episode 115, so Episode 130 turns out as good as episode 116?

There is no such thing as "budget animation".

[kinisking]

This arc has legitimately been the absolute worst in all of canon dragonball If i don't include the retellings (I actually liked the BOG one though).
Pacing: Absolutely horrible. Moments that have no need to be drawn out are such as Jiren constantly no selling things, vegeta fighting in base for a majority of an episode, and the whole kefla thing, and things that need more focus such as Gohan versus Dyspo, tien's elimination or Krillin are absolutely rushed. I feel like this arc has been drawn out but still has no substance?

Character usage: CRAP. 80 fighters and barely any put up a fight? instead of having Goku and Vegeta barely put any effort against opponents, pit those opponents against the earthlings and give Goku and Vegeta stronger opponents. Or they should have had separate battle royales and grouped people by powerlevel. Roshi, Gohan, 17, Vegeta, Goku, Kale/ Caulifla, Toppo, Jiren, Dyspo and Anilaza are the only characters that I am satisfied with. I'm completely dissapointed by universe 9, Krillin, Piccolo, Universe 10, Tien, Hit, the commander in the pride troopers, Ribrianne,universe 4, and Cabba. I'm probably dissapointed with more but can't remember them because of their crap character usage. Barely any of the fighters outside of u7 even eliminated anyone just so Goku and Vegeta could make up like 30 percent of the eliminations.

Animation: Despite having more consistent animation, the reuse is disgusting at this point. A climax episode like this should not have had as much reuse as it did. They obviously don't care about the series now that its ending.

Writing: Universes are being erased. Why am I barely feeling any emotional impact? Why aren't the fighters acting a lot more desperate and fearful of the situation? Why are most of the fighters copy and paste generic cocky villian types when we could have had diverse personalities? Imagine how much better it would be if we saw more fighters with hearts filled with gold. Fighters that regretted every elimination they did and genuinely felt bad for the universes getting eliminated. Imagine if we had a scene where a fighter broke down crying after a universe was eliminated and refused to fight anymore. Jiren was an amazing idea. We could have had a genuine super hero to show how morally ambiguous this arc could be but he ended up just being an asshole. Toppo should have been the main antagonist. If they toned down the justice and made him less of a caricature but still showed he was an amazing guy deep down only for him to break under the circumstances? He would have been my favorite antagonist.

Yes, Dragonball has never been complicated. But at least it never tried to be. Now it's trying to be and just fails at it. Let's go back to beating simple villians, using simple methods, within a simple setting.

[Brettjr25]

Jiren STILL not revealing his wish is absurdal at this point. The series is ending and we don't know what the final boss is even fighting for.

He's like a wall not a character, I tried to defend him at first but he's just so boring. Not even his attacks are named nor visually fun.

I think not having your entiren universe erased is good enough motivation. I get what you're saying but lets not forget whats really at stake here.

[jeffbr92]

There are still many things missing. Who will win the tournament, where is Freeza, Jiren's wish, Super Shenlong, the desctructed universe, party after the tournament on Earth.

No, Super made reunion parties a cliché in this series, I hope to see everyone fine and how it will be connected to EoZ

[Shaqazooloo]

Wait, so theirs only 2 episodes left? How are they gonna wrap everything up in 1 episode? They still have the wish, whatever the hell Frieza will go after this, obligatory celebration party, one last Saiyan wank fest for the road and tie in Dbz, coupled with a "were are they now" segment. Damn, i'm getting pretty worried.

Also, I really hate the title for the next episode "The Greatest Showdown of All Time! The Ultimate Survival Battle!". Like really? I hate to say this but it sounds like something a 10 year would come up with and screams " Please Watch, we REALLY need the rating guys!".

I can't wait to get this over with. The music is really good and all but i'm just really un-hyped with the Goku and Jiren fight. I didn't watch the Goku and Jiren Power Hour, how does that compare to this so far?

[Spider-Man]

Character usage: CRAP. 80 fighters and barely any put up a fight? instead of having Goku and Vegeta barely put any effort against opponents, pit those opponents against the earthlings and give Goku and Vegeta stronger opponents. Or they should have had separate battle royales and grouped people by powerlevel. Roshi, Gohan, 17, Vegeta, Goku, Kale/ Caulifla, Toppo, Jiren, Dyspo and Anilaza are the only characters that I am satisfied with. I'm completely dissapointed by universe 9, Krillin, Piccolo, Universe 10, Tien, Hit, the commander in the pride troopers, Ribrianne,universe 4, and Cabba. I'm probably dissapointed with more but can't remember them because of their crap character usage. Barely any of the fighters outside of u7 even eliminated anyone just so Goku and Vegeta could make up like 30 percent of the eliminations.

Agreed with this I find U4 and U10 the most dissapointing Universe especially U10 because only Obuni put good fight but unfortunately he is not an interesting character other than he is a family man and a noble warriors really wish they have more time to establish his character instead wasting on a stupid gag.

U4 where do I begin with Quitela was Beerus rival these two had a connection,he is very confident with his hidden warriors,they had a scene building them up in 107 but unfortunately in 119 they were just chump trying to be cool and the erasure felt hollow it almost like a filler episode,I was more sastified with Barry Khan being shut down by Videl than what they did with U4.

Binge watching this arc won't do me any favors heck if anything rewatching this arc made me realize this tournament is badly structured.

[dbgtFO]

Also, I really hate the title for the next episode "The Greatest Showdown of All Time! The Ultimate Survival Battle!". Like really? I hate to say this but it sounds like something a 10 year would come up with and screams " Please Watch, we REALLY need the rating guys!".

Well it's aimed at 10 year olds, so if anything that just shows the Toei staff know what their demographic wants to hear.

[sintzu]

This arc has legitimately been the absolute worst in all of canon dragonball If i don't include the retellings.

The retellins are short and have movie counterparts so you either can get through them fast or have an other option, you can do neither with this one.

This arc had its moments but when you look at how long it is and how little there is in terms of content, it easily could've turned out better in half the time while the other have could've been used for another more fitting ending arc.

In terms of where it stands within "canon", I can't think of an arc I'd put below it so as of now it's the worst.

Wait, so theirs only 2 episodes left? How are they gonna wrap everything up in 1 episode?

I was hoping they would've gotten more fighting done in today's episode but it looks like it'll up till half of 131 which will only leave half an episode for everything else.

At this point a satisfying conclusion is impossible so the best thing they can do is end it on a cliffhanger.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I guess Vegeta's the rival Beerus was looking for, because Goku would crush him with no difficulty now.