"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheSaiyanGod]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Goku had two fights in the exhibition tournament, 6 fights in the recruitment and many other fights in the tournament, much more than everyone. I would say that he still had an excessive focus on this tournament and even took the shine out of some other characters. He dominated the UI in minutes, overcame the Hakaishins and his fans still complain because he will lose?

And people still say that Vegeta fans are never satisfied?

[dbzfan7]

I guess it's time to insult everyone who's angered by the show. You know, makes you look smarter and better than them

Yep. That pretty much is the pattern almost all the time.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

You know I WOULD be perfectly fine with this if Freeza pulls out a big ass Looney Tunes hammer and just smashes Jiren into a pancake. Probably the reason this bugs me so much is Jiren sucks so much ass that him winning if he does is not at all satisfying. If he was someone I could find actually interesting or charming I may have been fine, but I pretty much dislike him. I really hate to say this....but I might...MIGHT actually would have preferred Ribrianne have won.....and that's something I threw up saying...

[ToshioWrites]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

IIRc whis said it would allow you to "avoid any danger" but that doesn't mean in a setting like this it can't be beaten. If goku could fly he might be unbeatable. maybe he runs out of stamina.
In DB , Raw power always trumps. This arc we've seen hakai energy get absolutely owned , why can't ui?

[HeroR]

Well if you are admitting to it, I might as well and we might call it off. I’m actually exausted from debating this subject in other forums. This news has really gotten people flipping tables

I’m hardly flipping tables since a) Goku losing was predictable given his win record and b) we don’t know how he even loses outside of Jiren maybe blowing him out of the ring.

You may not, 99% of the fandom is. Have you seen forums outside of kanenshuu? It’s like hurricane Irma all over again

I have and I wondered what happened to all the ‘Goku always win people’.

[HeroR]

I'll wait to watch the episode to see how this plays out. But I do want to Freeza to win this. Freeza winning the Tournament Of Power is only way him coming back to life has any kind of significant payoff.

Except the Dragon Balls goes to the best fighter, nothing about last man standing.

I agree it doesn't literally mean the last man standing, but I'm pretty sure this is how it'll play out in the anime though. Can't see them giving the Dragon Balls to a fighter that has been eliminated while Frieza is still standing.

Standing because he was unconscious in rubble while the other was fighting their heart out and got a god technquies.

[HeroR]

With Joy good sir, with Joy. I'm making a monument to our Lord with flipped tables.

It should be noted that it never said Freeza beat Jiren.

True but with Goku out and Frieza still in how is this really going to end?

Frieza loses and either Jiren killing him, giving Frieza a heroic sacrifice to save the universe, or be Jiren wishs everything undone, which would allow GT to happen but makes the very fact Frieza lasted this long and was even brought on board pointless.

Or is Frieza, DB's most popular villain and the last guy anyone ever expected to ever see again let alone play a prominent role in a future story arcs, going to win.

A tie?

[Sani007]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

[OverHeaven]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

Vegeta overpowered Toppo's Hakai with sheer strength.
Jiren destroyed Hit's time skip with sheer strength.

That is really how dragon ball is, absolute strength is going to destroy everything, in the end, no matter how illogical it is

I’m hardly flipping tables since a) Goku losing was predictable given his win record and b) we don’t know how he even loses outside of Jiren maybe blowing him out of the ring.

You may not, 99% of the fandom is. Have you seen forums outside of kanenshuu? It’s like hurricane Irma all over again

Mind naming some of these forums?

Except the Dragon Balls goes to the best fighter, nothing about last man standing.

I agree it doesn't literally mean the last man standing, but I'm pretty sure this is how it'll play out in the anime though. Can't see them giving the Dragon Balls to a fighter that has been eliminated while Frieza is still standing.

Standing because he was unconscious in rubble while the other was fighting their heart out and got a god technquies.

Well, I said I agree with you. But in the end, I'm pretty sure the anime will go the simplest route and give the dragon balls to Frieza anyway despite him not being the "best" fighter.
Technically it's possible to have a "best" fighter from a losing universe, but he isn't getting the dragon balls cuz he's going to get erased.

[HeroR]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Goku best Hit in their rematch with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. And Goku rung out the last of U2 with Blue Kaioken. Super Saiyan God also best Cali and Kale before they fused. Omen beat Kelfa.

[JazzMazz]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

No, I don't think that's an accurate thing either.

I feel like, more than anything, this arc has been about Goku constantly pushing himself in order to learn and master Ultra Instinct. Now, after all those episodes of Goku working to achieve it, and now finally doing so, instead of going with a cathartic ending where Goku gets the win, he still loses and the arc is resolved by some ass backwards stupid plot point.

This would be the equivalent of Goku attaining Super Saiyan on Namek, only to end up still getting killed by Freeza, and then for the arc to conclude on Ginyu body-swapping with Freeza and dying on Namek. Its the least satisfying outcome for the audience's investment.

[Helios518]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

That's a no-limits fallacy and it's the people's fault if they think having UI means you can't lose against a Non-UI user. It makes it worse considering if you were to follow that logic, then UI Goku should be able to beat Zeno.

[HeroR]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

No, I don't think that's an accurate thing either.

I feel like, more than anything, this arc has been about Goku constantly pushing himself in order to learn and master Ultra Instinct. Now, after all those episodes of Goku working to achieve it, and now finally doing so, instead of going with a cathartic ending where Goku gets the win, he still loses and the arc is resolved by some ass backwards stupid plot point.

This would be the equivalent of Goku attaining Super Saiyan on Namek, only to end up still getting killed by Freeza, and then for the arc to conclude on Ginyu body-swapping with Freeza and dying on Namek. Its the least satisfying outcome for the audience's investment.

I wouldn’t mind that ending. Sounds hilarious.

Plus, Freeza has been foreshadowed almost as much as UI.

[dbzfan7]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

No, I don't think that's an accurate thing either.

I feel like, more than anything, this arc has been about Goku constantly pushing himself in order to learn and master Ultra Instinct. Now, after all those episodes of Goku working to achieve it, and now finally doing so, instead of going with a cathartic ending where Goku gets the win, he still loses and the arc is resolved by some ass backwards stupid plot point.

This would be the equivalent of Goku attaining Super Saiyan on Namek, only to end up still getting killed by Freeza, and then for the arc to conclude on Ginyu body-swapping with Freeza and dying on Namek. Its the least satisfying outcome for the audience's investment.

I know right. Imagine if that did happen on Namek. Goku gets beaten up by Freeza or killed anyways, and then a revived Vegeta I'll say just distracts Freeza til the planet blows up and takes them both out. Goku and Vegeta are revived later. That's what this feels like.

[Lord Frieza]

It should be noted that it never said Freeza beat Jiren.

True but with Goku out and Frieza still in how is this really going to end?

Frieza loses and either Jiren killing him, giving Frieza a heroic sacrifice to save the universe, or be Jiren wishs everything undone, which would allow GT to happen but makes the very fact Frieza lasted this long and was even brought on board pointless.

Or is Frieza, DB's most popular villain and the last guy anyone ever expected to ever see again let alone play a prominent role in a future story arcs, going to win.

A tie?

See above post for response to similar idea.


On the subject of Frieza getting a wish "if" he wins, the rules of the tournament of power are basically those of a team style, King of the Hill match.

Such a match is decided by who stays on longest, as we all know, an the best play in such a match is the guy/guys who stayed on longest. Frieza may not be the strongest or have the most ring out if he wins, however he'd be the best fighter is not because of raw power but because, as he said on namek all those years ago, "Sometimes is the smartest one who wins, not the strongest". Frieza would be the best because of his superior game plan to every other fighter and the fact he the luckiest sob in U7 not to get ringed out by Toppo or Jiren.

As for what he'd wish for, Goku and co have an out for that. Shenron cannot wish wish back someone more then once, so Frieza could very well have to use his wish on the Super Dragon Balls to get his life back unless becoming Omni-King will work round that issue.

But while I'm 90% convinced he's gonna win this, we'll see.

[ToshioWrites]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Goku best Hit in their rematch with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. And Goku rung out the last of U2 with Blue Kaioken. Super Saiyan God also best Cali and Kale before they fused. Omen beat Kelfa.

Goku tied with hit. Both were on the ground out of breath

u2 guys are supposed to be impressive?

goku didn't eliminate kale or caulifla in god and then proceeded to get his ass beat by kefla in base

omen did succeed vs kefla, i'll accept that but couldn't beat jiren and he had to get this mastered form

[BlueBasilisk]

No, I don't think that's an accurate thing either.

I feel like, more than anything, this arc has been about Goku constantly pushing himself in order to learn and master Ultra Instinct. Now, after all those episodes of Goku working to achieve it, and now finally doing so, instead of going with a cathartic ending where Goku gets the win, he still loses and the arc is resolved by some ass backwards stupid plot point.

This would be the equivalent of Goku attaining Super Saiyan on Namek, only to end up still getting killed by Freeza, and then for the arc to conclude on Ginyu body-swapping with Freeza and dying on Namek. Its the least satisfying outcome for the audience's investment.

And since the trend is for the next bad guy to render the New Hotness irrelevant to show how great they are, we're left with Whis pushing them to learn Ultra Instinct for...what, exactly?

[Kenneth La Torre]

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

Vegeta overpowered Toppo's Hakai with sheer strength.
Jiren destroyed Hit's time skip with sheer strength.

That is really how dragon ball is, absolute strength is going to destroy everything, in the end, no matter how illogical it is

I’m hardly flipping tables since a) Goku losing was predictable given his win record and b) we don’t know how he even loses outside of Jiren maybe blowing him out of the ring.

You may not, 99% of the fandom is. Have you seen forums outside of kanenshuu? It’s like hurricane Irma all over again

Mind naming some of these forums?

I agree it doesn't literally mean the last man standing, but I'm pretty sure this is how it'll play out in the anime though. Can't see them giving the Dragon Balls to a fighter that has been eliminated while Frieza is still standing.

Standing because he was unconscious in rubble while the other was fighting their heart out and got a god technquies.

Well, I said I agree with you. But in the end, I'm pretty sure the anime will go the simplest route and give the dragon balls to Frieza anyway despite him not being the "best" fighter.
Technically it's possible to have a "best" fighter from a losing universe, but he isn't getting the dragon balls cuz he's going to get erased.

You don’t want to go to those forums trust me. And Twitter is nearly just as bad, if not worse

[HeroR]

True but with Goku out and Frieza still in how is this really going to end?

Frieza loses and either Jiren killing him, giving Frieza a heroic sacrifice to save the universe, or be Jiren wishs everything undone, which would allow GT to happen but makes the very fact Frieza lasted this long and was even brought on board pointless.

Or is Frieza, DB's most popular villain and the last guy anyone ever expected to ever see again let alone play a prominent role in a future story arcs, going to win.

A tie?

See above post for response to similar idea.


On the subject of Frieza getting a wish "if" he wins, the rules of the tournament of power are basically those of a team style, King of the Hill match.

Such a match is decided by who stays on longest, as we all know, an the best play in such a match is the guy/guys who stayed on longest. Frieza may not be the strongest or have the most ring out if he wins, then he the best fighter not because of raw power but because, as he said on namek all those years ago, "Sometimes is the smartest one who wins, not the strongest". Frieza would be the best because of his superior game plan to every other fighter and the fact he the luckiest sob in U7 not to get ringed out by Toppo.

As for what he'd wish for, Goku and co have an out for that. Shenron cannot wish wish back someone more then once, so Frieza could very well have to use his wish on the Super Dragon Balls to get his life back unless becoming Omni-King will work round that issue.

But while I'm 90% convinced he's gonna win this, we'll see.

No offense, but that’s headcanon. The Super Dragon Balls goes to ‘best fighter’ or if you used the manga ‘the strongest fighter’. Not these Survivor type rules.

He wasn’t even the smartest, see God Toppo and ‘I can catch Haki’.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Is it serious that Goku fans are complaining?

Yeah, because he's the protagonist. And even Dragon Ball = Son Goku. This isn't like an Avengers movie.

It does not matter if Goku is the protagonist, that does not mean he has to win everything.
In fact, he already had an exaggerated prominence in this saga and did much more than all the others, what the reason of the complaint? Just because it will lose? This does not mean much.

Why are people so shocked at goku losing?

ssj3 accomplished nothing in buu arc
ssg failed vs beerus
ssb has never won anything vs any strong fighter
ssb kk has always failed
ui omen failed
Now MUI fails


Goku now has another standard to try and chase after in jiren. Anyways the guy he's up against is someone who for god knows how long has been unable to be bested by his own GoD with all the hakai hax in the world.

Because it’s not within a Mastered Ultra Instinct user’s nature to lose. Especially against a NON-UI user. Whis stated so.

THAT’S why people are outraged.

IIRc whis said it would allow you to "avoid any danger" but that doesn't mean in a setting like this it can't be beaten. If goku could fly he might be unbeatable. maybe he runs out of stamina.
In DB , Raw power always trumps. This arc we've seen hakai energy get absolutely owned , why can't ui?

In the synopsis of EP 129 it was said that Jiren's quick and heavy attacks were too much for Goku to deflect with the UI.

So, power can overcome the ability to divert without thinking of the UI

[dbzfan7]

Another thing is I get less excited for growth from Goku if its just not going to pay off when it truly counts. Just wait for like Super Saiyan Instinct God Super Ultra Saiyan to be the next big hyped thing, only to also receive the same result as yet another power up.