Loved it. Best arc in Super by a mile. It had great fights, some really powerful moments, one of the best DB villains, fantastic soundtrack and an ending scene that was way more emotional than I anticipated. Also, I don't think a Dragon Ball story has ever kept me guessing so much. It was a lot of fun watching this arc weekly and figuring out just who or what Goku Black was.
It has its flaws though. They travel back and forth through time a bit too much. The art and animation definitely dips a lot like in episodes 62 and 67. It wraps up very quickly. There should've been 2 more episodes to spread things out some more so the last act of the arc doesn't feel so rushed. Goku's also a total dumbass in this arc. They really play up his stupidity. It's a good thing that Trunks is the protagonist in this story.
Even with those flaws, I still haven't had this much fun with Dragon Ball since the Buu arc. It's such a great time.
How do you feel about the FT arc?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
-
Super Saiyan Swagger
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1976
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am
- Location: Australia
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
The same,Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Loved it. Best arc in Super by a mile. It had great fights, some really powerful moments, one of the best DB villains, fantastic soundtrack and an ending scene that was way more emotional than I anticipated. Also, I don't think a Dragon Ball story has ever kept me guessing so much. It was a lot of fun watching this arc weekly and figuring out just who or what Goku Black was.
It has its flaws though. They travel back and forth through time a bit too much. The art and animation definitely dips a lot like in episodes 62 and 67. It wraps up very quickly. There should've been 2 more episodes to spread things out some more so the last act of the arc doesn't feel so rushed. Goku's also a total dumbass in this arc. They really play up his stupidity. It's a good thing that Trunks is the protagonist in this story.
Even with those flaws, I still haven't had this much fun with Dragon Ball since the Buu arc. It's such a great time.
Easily the best arc of Super, an 8 out of 10.
It was unpredictable and emotional, and most importantly I "CARED" about the people featured in it.
In the tournament whole universes are being wiped out, and I don't give a @#$, heck I'm at a point I don't even care if U7 survives.
The FT arc had it's flaws of course, nothing is ever perfect.
-
GodVegetto91
- Banned
- Posts: 2906
- Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It’s the absolute best arc of Super!!!
It’s also the only real and serious arc. It’s the only arc with a true villain. Freeza wasn’t new afterall.
It’s also the only real and serious arc. It’s the only arc with a true villain. Freeza wasn’t new afterall.
-
Torturephile
- Regular
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 pm
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It introduced one of my favorite villains in the franchise, Goku Black, who had an aura of charisma, elegance, and evil, all perfectly blended together in his personality and moveset. The mystery behind him and it's eventual reveal kept me interested in him while also introducing Zamasu along the way, with the exploration of Zamasu's fall into darkness being an appreciated aspect coming from me as many previous villains were evil upon their introduction. Factor in the return of Future Trunks, a character I liked back in the Androids/Cell saga but disappeared to never be seen or heard from again, and the character interactions that were heavily shown during the arc such as both Trunks showing support to one another, Future Trunks seeing how things have changed in Gohan, Vegeta making up for being cold-hearted he once was to Future Trunks, Beerus and Whis helping out deal with the Goku Black mystery, etc. The long gone grit from later DB and Z made its welcome return. And finally, some aspects of the show like music and art and animation have improved.
Unfortunately, for me, it didn't do a few things right. First, the power scale began to crack at around episode 56'ish when the powers of certain characters were inconsistent to one another, mostly seen in Future Trunks and his weird transformation. It became harder to rank them and how far one from the other as a result. Second, upon rewatch, the wasn't enough exploration of Zamasu's fall into darkness. The only featured interactions with mortals that were shown were those with an episode specific-idiotic Goku and a few barbarians from U10. Had there been more of those along with showing a more sympathetic side of Zamasu, I would have bought it for sure. Third, the pacing was inconsistent. The story had a slow built up, with some focus given to irrelevant characters like the Pilaf Gang at times, but once the heroes faced Black and Zamasu in the future a second time, the pace picked up quick so there wasn't enough room to explore more of Fused Zamasu and Vegetto, for instance. Last, the writing spiraled in a downward motion, with unexplained transformations such as Future Trunks', Future Trunks learning the mafuba from a Piccolo tutorial on a phone, Goku injuring Fused Zamasu more than Future Trunks and Vegeta could together, the third time travel, etc.
I'm one of those few who neither liked or disliked the ending.
Unfortunately, for me, it didn't do a few things right. First, the power scale began to crack at around episode 56'ish when the powers of certain characters were inconsistent to one another, mostly seen in Future Trunks and his weird transformation. It became harder to rank them and how far one from the other as a result. Second, upon rewatch, the wasn't enough exploration of Zamasu's fall into darkness. The only featured interactions with mortals that were shown were those with an episode specific-idiotic Goku and a few barbarians from U10. Had there been more of those along with showing a more sympathetic side of Zamasu, I would have bought it for sure. Third, the pacing was inconsistent. The story had a slow built up, with some focus given to irrelevant characters like the Pilaf Gang at times, but once the heroes faced Black and Zamasu in the future a second time, the pace picked up quick so there wasn't enough room to explore more of Fused Zamasu and Vegetto, for instance. Last, the writing spiraled in a downward motion, with unexplained transformations such as Future Trunks', Future Trunks learning the mafuba from a Piccolo tutorial on a phone, Goku injuring Fused Zamasu more than Future Trunks and Vegeta could together, the third time travel, etc.
I'm one of those few who neither liked or disliked the ending.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It was an okay saga considering that it is the only one with an actual plot. Trunks return was unnecessary and I after seeing Freeza returning once more, I was getting burned out. However, despite of all that, I remembered Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai games and, of course, Dragon Ball Xenoverse and Dragon Ball Online and so I wanted to know what happened to Trunks after AGE 788.buutenks wrote:This has been on my mind for a bit, so i wanted to share.
To me personally the FT arc feels like it could have been skipped. I mean nothing impactful happened in it apart from screwing Future Trunks even more. If you'd skip it, apart from the 2 zenos you wouldnt miss a thing.
Feels to me that the FT arc was wedged inbetween u6 arc and ToP so there wont be 2 back to back tourney arcs.
Anyone else feel the same?
The flow of the saga was cool, not too long but not too short either. I remember getting constantly riled up by the constant appearance of Pilaf and by how the episodes would focus too much on them. Loved that it revealed Trunks had achieved Super Saiyan 2 (but Toei had to screw it by not making any differences from Super Saiyan when it should have). Goku Black was a nice character and Zamasu couldn't have been more bland. If only he were a Makaio, then things would certainly be more interesting.
My main issue with this saga is its ending and that Beerus played a huge role on the "Time Travel" subject when it should have been another god, and with the person who got the idea of doing Trunks to live with himself. Fire that guy! I literally have never seen a worse ending than that.
They could have done anything else, but they chose the worst ending of all. And for that, even Future Trunks saga, which is better than the other two sagas of Dragon Ball Super, is still kind of "meh". It could have been way better, it could have tried so many things differently, it could have brought other concepts. Such a waste.-
SupremeKai25
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4089
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
At least the Future Trunks arc had an actualy villain. Who is the villain of this arc? Jiren? A toaster is more nefarious and charming than him. Kefla? Yeah, no. Ribrianne? Hahahaha. The Grand Priest? Of course not, screw any opportunity for an intriguing storyline. Let's just turn the Grand Priest into another useless commentator, as if Krillin and Tien weren't enough; but, hey, at least Beerus told them to shut up in the latest episode.
To be fair though, this arc doesn't even have a story, so I guess it's not a tragedy if it doesn't even have an actual villain. And, oh, what a villain Zamasu was. Zamasu might not be stronger than Jiren, but his personality is much more articulate and elaborate, and he has achieved much more than Jiren. Jiren hasn't even eliminated more than two characters in the Tournament of Power, pathetic. Also, it's like the writers tried to be as shallow as possible when they came up with Jiren's backstory.
To be fair though, this arc doesn't even have a story, so I guess it's not a tragedy if it doesn't even have an actual villain. And, oh, what a villain Zamasu was. Zamasu might not be stronger than Jiren, but his personality is much more articulate and elaborate, and he has achieved much more than Jiren. Jiren hasn't even eliminated more than two characters in the Tournament of Power, pathetic. Also, it's like the writers tried to be as shallow as possible when they came up with Jiren's backstory.
-
BlueBasilisk
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3062
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It was pretty good. It definitely should have ended on 68 or 69 instead of 67 though. The ending was pretty abrupt.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It had been amazing until episode 61 (other than some power level issues which I won't deny) good story for DB standards, awesome fights and villains, cool character moments, the whole dark ambience in the FT timeline, etc...
The entire origin for Black didn't make any sense, and it brought up a lot of issue with how time works in DB. Beerus altering reality by destroying Zamasu doesn't make any sense and contradicts how altering time works in DB. You can alter time in DB only if you travel in time, not by killing someone. This happened because in the timeline Black came from, Zamasu wasn't killed by Beerus which caused the issue of Beerus altering timelines, why wasn't he klled by Beerus? So after they dropped the ball on that, they made Beerus kill Zamasu in the main timeline and this supposedly altered time even though that exact scenario should have played out already in Black's timeline. And not to mention the question still remains: In Black's timeline, what were Goku, Beerus and Whis doing in Universe 10 in the first place? They did not know about Black so they had no reason to go there, it's a time paradox and a complete mess.
But I guess in a way time paradoxes never make much sense, so I can let it slide. Besides, episode 61 was still pretty good disregarding Black's origins. It had more elaboration on why Black decided to execute his 0 mortal plan, cool flashbacks of his past and how how met Future Zamasu, the fighting was cool, Vegeta's character continued to become better and better he was genuinely interesting, the dialogue and direction was also cool. I actually loved everything in that episode besides Black's origins.
Nevertheless, this episode was still the start of many problems to come.
The real problems start after episode 61. Episode 62 was all over the place with awful animation for the most part of what was supposed to be an epic fight and no explanation or even a brief mention of what Trunks's new transformation was.
But even this episode is not when things actually get really bad. Vegeta continued to deliver, some dialogue was very interesting and I liked the re introduction of the Mafuba.
Episode 63 was actually really good, animation and fighting choreography were on point, Vegeta continued to be awesome like he had been, the only things I didn't like were issues from the last episode like Trunks being saved somehow, and of course his new form which at this point I gave up on dreaming for an actual explanation.
Episode 64 was the episode that started to make this arc BAD. This entire episode was utter shit. Nothing about it made sense, from Trunks learning the Mafuba to the whole switching fights (Goku was fighting Zamasu, but suddenly Zamasu started flying toward Trunks, Mai and Bulma even though Goku should have stopped him, and it took Zamasu way too long to fly considering the distance was at best a mile away) and the bad animation.
The only positives I had to this episode was of course Black's speech which and the way he asspulled his scythe.
Episode 65 was better, but despite that, everything continued to fall apart, animation was rushed as hell, they were some nice bits, but everything looked really rough, more wasted screen time on Trunks transforming into that form which just continued to remind me of how bad it was (given the fact it had no explanation or even a little description at all), some major power level issues started to pop up all over the place, from Trunks and Vegeta overpowering Merged Zamasu which made no sense, to Goku single handedly overpowering and damaging Merged Zamasu with a kmehameha, the same Goku who lost to Black a day before and hadn't gone through any power increase training since then.
It continued with episode 66, Goku started to kick Merged Zamasu's ass, which made no sense and lowered the value of potara fusion, Vegito coming back, more retconed than ever, that retcon was pretty bad, but what made things worse was the fact Vegito couldn't last more than like 5 minutes, because apparently if he uses his full power, he defuses. It made Vegito pretty much worthless sicne he now can't fight without defusing shortly after, it then continued to get worse, as SSJ Rage Trunks begun fighting a much more powered up Merged Zamasu then the one who kicked both Vegeta's and Goku's ass, but Trunks actually managed to hold his own against him, which was bad. Trunks then used a Genki-sword - arguably the worst asspull in DB's history, which was awful, and the same Genki Sword powered by 2 depowered saiyans and a few children was enough to take down Merged Zamasu which made it even more atrocious.
The only positives I had were Zamasu's mutation and how it represented his intense emotions, his insanity and the irony of him being as ugly as the mortals he wanted to destroy so badly. I liked the concept of him having flaws in his immortality after fusing and while it seemed like he can still heal, he is just falling apart both because of physical damage and his imbalance in his soul. I guess the direction was good and of course it's one of the best looking episodes in Super. So the episode may have looked awesome and well executed, the flaws far outweighed the good imo.
Episode 67 basically just made everything inconsequential, to the point if this arc still had any spark left after all the massive shit it'd gone through, episde 67 shattered it as well and ruined everything.
Most episodes were still good, some even were great, and there were a lot of epic memorable moments despite the massive flaws, I guess I will give it a 7/10 and that's me being generous.
Still far more interesting than any other arc in Super, shame it was ruined.
The entire origin for Black didn't make any sense, and it brought up a lot of issue with how time works in DB. Beerus altering reality by destroying Zamasu doesn't make any sense and contradicts how altering time works in DB. You can alter time in DB only if you travel in time, not by killing someone. This happened because in the timeline Black came from, Zamasu wasn't killed by Beerus which caused the issue of Beerus altering timelines, why wasn't he klled by Beerus? So after they dropped the ball on that, they made Beerus kill Zamasu in the main timeline and this supposedly altered time even though that exact scenario should have played out already in Black's timeline. And not to mention the question still remains: In Black's timeline, what were Goku, Beerus and Whis doing in Universe 10 in the first place? They did not know about Black so they had no reason to go there, it's a time paradox and a complete mess.
But I guess in a way time paradoxes never make much sense, so I can let it slide. Besides, episode 61 was still pretty good disregarding Black's origins. It had more elaboration on why Black decided to execute his 0 mortal plan, cool flashbacks of his past and how how met Future Zamasu, the fighting was cool, Vegeta's character continued to become better and better he was genuinely interesting, the dialogue and direction was also cool. I actually loved everything in that episode besides Black's origins.
Nevertheless, this episode was still the start of many problems to come.
The real problems start after episode 61. Episode 62 was all over the place with awful animation for the most part of what was supposed to be an epic fight and no explanation or even a brief mention of what Trunks's new transformation was.
But even this episode is not when things actually get really bad. Vegeta continued to deliver, some dialogue was very interesting and I liked the re introduction of the Mafuba.
Episode 63 was actually really good, animation and fighting choreography were on point, Vegeta continued to be awesome like he had been, the only things I didn't like were issues from the last episode like Trunks being saved somehow, and of course his new form which at this point I gave up on dreaming for an actual explanation.
Episode 64 was the episode that started to make this arc BAD. This entire episode was utter shit. Nothing about it made sense, from Trunks learning the Mafuba to the whole switching fights (Goku was fighting Zamasu, but suddenly Zamasu started flying toward Trunks, Mai and Bulma even though Goku should have stopped him, and it took Zamasu way too long to fly considering the distance was at best a mile away) and the bad animation.
The only positives I had to this episode was of course Black's speech which and the way he asspulled his scythe.
Episode 65 was better, but despite that, everything continued to fall apart, animation was rushed as hell, they were some nice bits, but everything looked really rough, more wasted screen time on Trunks transforming into that form which just continued to remind me of how bad it was (given the fact it had no explanation or even a little description at all), some major power level issues started to pop up all over the place, from Trunks and Vegeta overpowering Merged Zamasu which made no sense, to Goku single handedly overpowering and damaging Merged Zamasu with a kmehameha, the same Goku who lost to Black a day before and hadn't gone through any power increase training since then.
It continued with episode 66, Goku started to kick Merged Zamasu's ass, which made no sense and lowered the value of potara fusion, Vegito coming back, more retconed than ever, that retcon was pretty bad, but what made things worse was the fact Vegito couldn't last more than like 5 minutes, because apparently if he uses his full power, he defuses. It made Vegito pretty much worthless sicne he now can't fight without defusing shortly after, it then continued to get worse, as SSJ Rage Trunks begun fighting a much more powered up Merged Zamasu then the one who kicked both Vegeta's and Goku's ass, but Trunks actually managed to hold his own against him, which was bad. Trunks then used a Genki-sword - arguably the worst asspull in DB's history, which was awful, and the same Genki Sword powered by 2 depowered saiyans and a few children was enough to take down Merged Zamasu which made it even more atrocious.
The only positives I had were Zamasu's mutation and how it represented his intense emotions, his insanity and the irony of him being as ugly as the mortals he wanted to destroy so badly. I liked the concept of him having flaws in his immortality after fusing and while it seemed like he can still heal, he is just falling apart both because of physical damage and his imbalance in his soul. I guess the direction was good and of course it's one of the best looking episodes in Super. So the episode may have looked awesome and well executed, the flaws far outweighed the good imo.
Episode 67 basically just made everything inconsequential, to the point if this arc still had any spark left after all the massive shit it'd gone through, episde 67 shattered it as well and ruined everything.
Most episodes were still good, some even were great, and there were a lot of epic memorable moments despite the massive flaws, I guess I will give it a 7/10 and that's me being generous.
Still far more interesting than any other arc in Super, shame it was ruined.
-
Spider-Man
- Regular
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:36 pm
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It was one of the best arc in Super and Goku Black is a good villian however the climax of this arc was bad.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
I think why i dont care much for it is because it happen in an alternate timeline, and it didnt give Goku or Vegeta a new form or a new technique.
-
Torturephile
- Regular
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 pm
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It didn't affect the main timeline much, so I can see that.buutenks wrote:I think why i dont care much for it is because it happen in an alternate timeline, and it didnt give Goku or Vegeta a new form or a new technique.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:The duality of man.Torturephile wrote:hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.The fandom in a nutshell.namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
I think it's pretty good overall. It was a huge step up from Super's earlier arcs in terms of narrative, music and animation. Goku Black is undeniably one of the better villains in the entire franchise.
That being said, it has tons of flaws. Vegetto's time limit retcon (why?), Trunks' unexplained power up, Goku Black and Zamasu's underwhelming backstories, nonstop whining about NINGENS and that awful, awful ending.
That being said, it has tons of flaws. Vegetto's time limit retcon (why?), Trunks' unexplained power up, Goku Black and Zamasu's underwhelming backstories, nonstop whining about NINGENS and that awful, awful ending.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
I personally don't mind the ending. Desperate attempts at damage control and irretrievable consequences. Sometimes you fail, in real life too. Trunks and Mai at least did get a happy-ish ending.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
It's the best arc in the Super anime, but it ultimately feels like a great ending in want of a substantially better executed story.
It contains the only episode/chapter in all of DB to make me cry, so props for that, but I'm in no hurry to ever rewatch it. (The manga lacks the high highs, but is more than enjoyable enough to come back to as a fluffy DB sequel.)
The ending is far and away the best thing about the anime version.
As far as its relevance in the overall story, I think it slots in nicely as Super's fourth arc. Zamasu is drawn to Goku because of the Universe 6-Universe 7 tournament, so you're continuing to build up the danger of him being exposed to these higher and higher gods, and more importantly Zeno is shown to be as dangerous and myopic as characters have promised to this point, setting the stage for the Universal Survival arc. It would also have been natural to have had the presence of a second Zeno be the trigger for more immediately pulling a stunt like the Tournament of Power, but neither version really leans hard into that.
It contains the only episode/chapter in all of DB to make me cry, so props for that, but I'm in no hurry to ever rewatch it. (The manga lacks the high highs, but is more than enjoyable enough to come back to as a fluffy DB sequel.)
The ending is far and away the best thing about the anime version.
As far as its relevance in the overall story, I think it slots in nicely as Super's fourth arc. Zamasu is drawn to Goku because of the Universe 6-Universe 7 tournament, so you're continuing to build up the danger of him being exposed to these higher and higher gods, and more importantly Zeno is shown to be as dangerous and myopic as characters have promised to this point, setting the stage for the Universal Survival arc. It would also have been natural to have had the presence of a second Zeno be the trigger for more immediately pulling a stunt like the Tournament of Power, but neither version really leans hard into that.
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
In comparison to the rest of Super, I think it's the only "new" (non-movie) arc that felt like an actual story because it wasn't just another tournament, so it has that advantage by default, not to mention that some great concepts are explored or revisited. It also introduced one of the best villains in the entire Dragon Ball franchise. There's no question about whether it's worth attending.
As for how both mediums compare for this arc, the anime has better characterization than the manga and contains higher highs as a result, but drops considerably in quality at some point approaching the climax. The manga's quality is certainly much more consistent than the anime's, never reaching its highs but never stooping to its lows either. There's ultimately no "definitive" version of the story, so to anyone who hasn't delved into it yet, I'd recommend watching/reading both adaptations for the optimal experience.
As for how both mediums compare for this arc, the anime has better characterization than the manga and contains higher highs as a result, but drops considerably in quality at some point approaching the climax. The manga's quality is certainly much more consistent than the anime's, never reaching its highs but never stooping to its lows either. There's ultimately no "definitive" version of the story, so to anyone who hasn't delved into it yet, I'd recommend watching/reading both adaptations for the optimal experience.
-
ZeroNeonix
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1399
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm
Re: How do you feel about the FT arc?
Meh. It was the only arc that felt similar to the DBZ story arcs. Before Future Trunks came back, the arcs were short and rather simple. And boy, this one was not simple. Time travel was made more complicated, and I still don't understand how Goku Black got to the Future timeline. Since he was originally from Goku's timeline, and Goku Black was apparently unaware that the time rings could be used to change timelines before he followed Future Trunks into the past, and time rings always suck you back anyway. So what method of time travel did he use? Then we had the retcon that gave a time limit to Potara fusion, which I could have done without. Even if the fusion were permanent, they already established with Kibito Kai that Dragon Balls can be used to unfuse, so it's not like the time limit was necessary to keep them from staying that way. And in my opinion, the arc would have been better if it had ended with Trunks cutting Fused Zamasu in half. Bringing Zamasu back to kill all the last survivors just completely killed Trunks' moment, and Zeno erasing the whole timeline and Whis bringing Future Trunks to a new Future timeline before Black just left me thinking, "What was the point of this entire arc?!"
I dunno. On one hand, it was the most interesting Super arc so far. On the other hand, it just felt like a confusing mess to me.
I dunno. On one hand, it was the most interesting Super arc so far. On the other hand, it just felt like a confusing mess to me.