Ultra Instinct and Royal Blue aren't actually Gone

[Zagacious]

If you haven't seen episode 131 stop reading here.

[spoiler]I know this is a rather minor idea to make a whole topic about, but I keep seeing people say UI and Royal Blue forms are all gone now, and I really don't see any reason to believe that. Just because they were sparring at the end in normal SSB forms doesn't mean anything. I'm certain under combat with a strong enough enemy they will be able to transform. Sparring each other it might not happen because they wouldn't go all out knowing they are comrades after all they've been through, whether Vegeta would admit it or not, neither of them would actually go all out.[/spoiler]

[Aman]

Does it really matter? UI would stomp Fairy Blue, so of course it made sense not to do it. Even then Goku cannot access it at will.

I wish they had just finished with a battle in SS, SSB was super ugly IMO.

[Zagacious]

Does it really matter? UI would stomp Fairy Blue, so of course it made sense not to do it. Even then Goku cannot access it at will.

I wish they had just finished with a battle in SS, SSB was super ugly IMO.

Well if it doesn't matter then why reply? I just keep seeing tons of people insisting that they can't even transform anymore, and using it to justify other weird conclusions, which is really confusing to me the sheer number of people who believe this. Them sparring in SSB at the end doesn't mean anything.

[Aman]

Does it really matter? UI would stomp Fairy Blue, so of course it made sense not to do it. Even then Goku cannot access it at will.

I wish they had just finished with a battle in SS, SSB was super ugly IMO.

Well if it doesn't matter then why reply? I just keep seeing tons of people insisting that they can't even transform anymore, and using it to justify other weird conclusions, which is really confusing to me the sheer number of people who believe this. Them sparring in SSB at the end doesn't mean anything.

Even if they accessed it during the fight, it wouldn't be a competitive fight. So it made sense for neither of them to use either form.

They could have done Fairy Blue vs SSBK20, but they probably thought the visual of SSB v SSB would be better.

[One_Instance]

Even if they accessed it during the fight, it wouldn't be a competitive fight. So it made sense for neither of them to use either form.

They could have done Fairy Blue vs SSBK20, but they probably thought the visual of SSB v SSB would be better.

Pretty sure you just proved the point of this thread....


Anyways, are people really saying that Evolution is gone? I don't know why you would get that impression. It seemed pretty clear to me that the only person who couldn't show off the new abilities they gained during the TOP was Goku. I feel like Vegeta might have mentioned not being able to do SSGSSE after Goku mentioned he can't use UI, had that not been the case.

[Kaiosama]

Vegeta would have been defeated in 1 blow easily. SSB Evolution doesn't really belong in the same conversation as UI at this point. We saw how much higher the ceiling was for Goku's limit breaking power in 130. I wouldn't be surprised to see Evolution get bodied by the villain in the upcoming movie in favor of Goku's UI. It just goes to show how inferior Vegeta will always be to Goku, that his peak potential is far outclassed by UI. It made the ending cut that much more nauseating with Toei still trying to force this noncompetitive rivalry down our throats.

[BlueBasilisk]

Pretty sure you just proved the point of this thread....


Anyways, are people really saying that Evolution is gone? I don't know why you would get that impression. It seemed pretty clear to me that the only person who couldn't show off the new abilities they gained during the TOP was Goku. I feel like Vegeta might have mentioned not being able to do SSGSSE after Goku mentioned he can't use UI, had that not been the case.

We saw Vegeta power up into SSBE of his own volition multiple times after he got it, so I don't know why people think he suddenly can't use it now. But I also remember people saying that about Kaioken Blue for a while before he used it against Zamasu.

[Zagacious]

Even if they accessed it during the fight, it wouldn't be a competitive fight. So it made sense for neither of them to use either form.

They could have done Fairy Blue vs SSBK20, but they probably thought the visual of SSB v SSB would be better.

Pretty sure you just proved the point of this thread....


Anyways, are people really saying that Evolution is gone? I don't know why you would get that impression. It seemed pretty clear to me that the only person who couldn't show off the new abilities they gained during the TOP was Goku. I feel like Vegeta might have mentioned not being able to do SSGSSE after Goku mentioned he can't use UI, had that not been the case.

I've seen a huge number of people saying things like "Where are they going to go now with the power scaling now that Goku can't go UI anymore" or "How is Goku going to compete with Jiren now without UI", like a crazy amount of people saying that, which is why I made this topic. It'd be pretty ridiculous if they made it so Goku can just go UI anytime he wants now. It would also be overkill against Vegeta but that's kind of obvious.

I haven't seen as many people mentioning Vegeta's Royal blue but still quite a few.

[lancerman]

To me Super Saiyan Blue Evolution is basically Vegeta's answer to Goku's SSJB with Kaio Ken.

UI for now should remain a desperation state that is difficult to realize.

[sintzu]

UI just can't be used like Ssj whenever the user wants but Vegeta's form is anyone's guess. It's most likely not from Toriyama so we probably won't see it and UI Omen again, at least not in the movie.

It just goes to show how inferior Vegeta will always be to Goku, that his peak potential is far outclassed by UI.

It made the ending cut that much more nauseating with Toei still trying to force this noncompetitive rivalry down our throats.

By Toei you mean Toriyama right ?

[Vegeta_Sama]

I don't mean to sound like an annoying asshole, but.... We have an officiale name, and that is Super Saiyan Blue Evolution, why do you continue to use that "Royal Blue"? Icknkw Evolution doesn't sound much better, but still, things should be called with their proper names.

[ChiefWamsutta]

As of Ep. 131, Goku can use: SS1, SS2, SS3, SSG, SSB, SSB KKx20.

As of Ep. 131, Vegeta can use: SS1, SS2, SSB, SSBE.

Vegeta's most powerful (SSBE) is equal to Goku's most powerful (SSB KKx20).

UI Omen and UI Completed are no longer a thing.

[PFM18]

As of Ep. 131, Goku can use: SS1, SS2, SS3, SSG, SSB, SSB KKx20.

As of Ep. 131, Vegeta can use: SS1, SS2, SSB, SSBE.

Vegeta's most powerful (SSBE) is equal to Goku's most powerful (SSB KKx20).

UI Omen and UI Completed are no longer a thing.

Yeah I don't think so. I think it goes something like this
SSBE Vegeta(initial)=SSBKK20 Goku>SSBE Vegeta in 126

he was kind of implied to be on par with Goku with Kaioken before he fought Toppo and at that level he was losing and then he got extra pissed against Toppo and overtook him. And then the next scene he punches Jiren and he says "I can see how you defeated Toppo" after being confident prior to that that Toppo could defeat him.(hence the switch) My interpretation is that he didnt unlock the full power of the new form until he raged at Toppo.

[Kaiosama]

UI just can't be used like Ssj whenever the user wants but Vegeta's form is anyone's guess. It's most likely not from Toriyama so we probably won't see it and UI Omen again, at least not in the movie.

It just goes to show how inferior Vegeta will always be to Goku, that his peak potential is far outclassed by UI.

It made the ending cut that much more nauseating with Toei still trying to force this noncompetitive rivalry down our throats.

By Toei you mean Toriyama right ?

Meh.. They are pretty much the same at this point to me haha!

[MKCSTEALTH]

I get what they're doing with Ultra Instinct. If they kept it so Goku could tap into it, there'd be no realistic challenge unless suddenly everyone he fought was on Jiren's level, which would be absurd. I think it's going to be left as a "Deus ex Machina", as I could easily see in the movie Goku fighting to the point where we see it again.

As for Super Saiyan Blue Evolution, that seemingly got forgotten. Especially considering Vegeta is once again stating he's going to surpass Goku...when without UI he already has. SSBE was about on par with SSBKx20 when they fought with Jiren, so Vegeta having access to that power with no drawbacks puts him above a non-UI Goku

[JazzMazz]

Can we all agree that while Goku can't ordinarily go UI, he can still use the form if pressured to do so?

Because I've just seen a lot of people saying "Oh yeah, Ultra Instinct is something that's out of the picture." No its not, its just something that can only be accessed on occasion and specific circumstance.

[BlueBasilisk]

Can we all agree that while Goku can't ordinarily go UI, he can still use the form if pressured to do so?

Because I've just seen a lot of people saying "Oh yeah, Ultra Instinct is something that's out of the picture." No its not, its just something that can only be accessed on occasion and specific circumstance.

It's never been depicted as something he can just access on his own, and didn't Whis say when he was fighting Kefla that it would become more difficult to trigger each time?

[JazzMazz]

Can we all agree that while Goku can't ordinarily go UI, he can still use the form if pressured to do so?

Because I've just seen a lot of people saying "Oh yeah, Ultra Instinct is something that's out of the picture." No its not, its just something that can only be accessed on occasion and specific circumstance.

It's never been depicted as something he can just access on his own, and didn't Whis say when he was fighting Kefla that it would become more difficult to trigger each time?

Yes, it was stated.

But that doesn't mean its impossible to access.

When Goku fights stronger opponents than those his fought currently(people stronger than Jiren), I'm sure the form will have a resurgence.

[ToshioWrites]

UI isn't something Goku can access at will. He has to be absolutely backed into a corner with no way out for it to activate. SSBE on the other hand is something Vegeta can use at will. We saw at the end of 126 he was out of energy and in base and then in 127 went right back into it.

They need to learn to use instinctual movement in all their forms and not relying on magical activation of forms. Same thing with training their base forms so that their ssbkkx20 or ssbe can fight GoDs level fighters.

[Jackalope89]

Besides; Vegeta's most powerful form will be Super Daddy Vegeta Super Daddy. The power to scare away any and all boys that want to ask out his daughter, and be the ultimate in protecting his family!

While still being dere at the same time.