Did the spirit bomb damage Frieza that much?

[thesilentofficial]

So I've been in many discussions with people over the years about Frieza only losing to Goku because of the spirit bomb. Other people online suggest that Frieza undamaged would be around 200 million. I can see how getting hit by a powerful attack would weaken one's PL but could it really have done that much DMG?

So I'd like to hear from the community, did the spirit bomb DMG Frieza significantly? If so what do you think his undamaged power level is?

[theherodjl]

So I've been in many discussions with people over the years about Frieza only losing to Goku because of the spirit bomb. Other people online suggest that Frieza undamaged would be around 200 million. I can see how getting hit by a powerful attack would weaken one's PL but could it really have done that much DMG?

So I'd like to hear from the community, did the spirit bomb DMG Frieza significantly? If so what do you think his undamaged power level is?

The Daizenshuu officially lists 100% Freeza at 120,000,000: It never states anything along the lines that this number comes after any damage or loss of stamina he may have taken on Namek. Granted, Freeza may not have been quite at 120,000,000 when fighting Goku, but he probably wasn't that much lower as the Genki Dama was Goku's only attack that had inflicted damage up to that point.

Welcome to the forums BTW.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

From the looks of him, Freeza probably didn't take all that much damage from it. He only lost part of his tail but looked mostly unscathed otherwise. Especially compared to Saiyan arc Vegeta, who looked a complete wreck after getting hit by a much smaller Genki-Dama (though he was still able to continue fighting for a bit).

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He was pretty fucked up by it if you ask me. He even though he'd die and i think he even mentioned he lost some power when he fired at Namek's core.

He was definitely at his absolute best when he went 100% though.

[thesilentofficial]

Thanks for the welcome, so you guys agree that 120 million is his max full power and when fighting SSJ Goku he might've been lower than possibly 100 million due to the spirit bomb?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That's ridiculous. Freeza was at his absolute best when he fought Goku, as it's stated so multiple times.

Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P11.1-3
Context: with 5 minutes (ha!) before Namek explodes
Freeza: “In that case, I’ll show you my 100% power! There’s no way you can defeat me! Prepare yourself!”
Goku: “Why are you using your full power now?...I know: it’s because when you use all of your power, your body itself can’t handle it.”

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P1.3
Freeza: “I’ll settle this at full power. It’ll take 1 minute…No, 30 seconds…”

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P2.4
Context: as Freeza powers up
Goku: “His ki is swelling up and becoming full…So he’s finally bringing out this ‘100% power’ thing of his, huh?...”

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P3.5
Context: as he lets Freeza power all the way up
Goku: “I really might not get this chance again…The chance to see the strongest bastard in the universe at full power…”

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P5.2
Context: Freeza’s still powering up
Freeza: “85%...90…”
Goku: “Freeza…The reason I’m waiting for you to reach full power…is because I want to beat you down when you’re at your best…That way, you’ll have no regrets as a warrior…You want to try testing out your full power too, right? If you didn’t, you would have just fired at the planet again and ended it…”
Note: Goku might be talking about himself, or both he and Freeza, not having any regrets as warriors.

Goku even says he's looking forward to seeing the strongest in the universe at it's best. The point of the fight was to have the two strongest being in the universe fight each other at their absolute peak, having one of them weakened for the fight flies on the face of the premisse.


Not to mention the 120mil figure by itself is flawed considering Goku and Freeza had a roughly even fight. Power gaps aren't perfect, but something as simple as "Close powers = Close fight and distant powers = one sided fight" should still be a thing. If Freeza were a 100 for Goku's 150 it would be no different from Goku one shoting Recoome.

[thesilentofficial]

Thanks for posting the direct quotes, although I thought only in the anime was it a close competition and in the manga it was a one-sided battle or am I wrong? I feel like it's wrong to assume Frieza was able to power up to 100% after tanking the spirit bomb, maybe 100% of what was left in reserves? Does he really mean that any damage done to him prior would just be brushed off just because he wasn't fully powered up?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The anime made the fight waaaay longer and it looked more even, but the manga had a pretty fair fight as well. Looking at the fight right now and it's pretty much this:
~ Freeza tries to catch Goku off guard, but Goku manages to grab Freeza's hand, snap it and throw him away. I'd say it's more a
~ Goku fires a Kamehameha and is on a complete stalemate with Freeza's Nova Strike, forcing Freeza to sneak by Goku's side and throw him at the sea.
~ Some dialogue and Porunga scene.
~ They go to the ground and finish their fight. They exchange blows evenly, until Goku lands a demolishing combo and quits, claiming Freeza's power is now gone. Goku even says Freeza should polish his stamina issues and skills, but not his power.
Goku: “Like I thought, I don’t have any desire to fight you as you are now…With you pinning your hopes on a worthless technique like that…If you really want to settle the score with me, recover your stamina and polish your skills.”

I don't think he and Goku would make such a big deal out of it if that wasn't Freeza's true full power. Goku even says it's the only chance he has to see Freeza at his peak, what makes no sense if he's not seeing Freeza at his absolute best.

I think Freeza forced his body to go full power. Like when you're just completely done on the gym but still gonna try that last rep before going home and you're a wreck after it. That's why his stamina perished much faster than it should IMO.

[thesilentofficial]

You mean when he beefed up he was temporarily forcing his power to the limits? (120 million) I guess that would make sense, also would make sense why his power was diminishing more quickly than if he wasn't forcing or had more stamina for long fights like Goku is accustomed to.

[Pantalones]

I think Freeza forced his body to go full power. Like when you're just completely done on the gym but still gonna try that last rep before going home and you're a wreck after it. That's why his stamina perished much faster than it should IMO.

This makes a lot of sense. Maybe Freeza was damaged pretty badly by the Spirit Bomb, but was able to go "beyond his limits" for a brief period and bring out 100% power (as in, his actual untouched TRUE 100% power, not "this is as close to 100% he can get right now because he's weakened by his injuries")... at the cost of draining away his stamina way more quickly than going to full power normally would. We see other characters do this throughout the series -- Goku's final burst against Piccolo when he had all those broken limbs, Gohan's final push with the Kamehameha against Cell even though he was missing an arm and his "baseline" SSj2 ki level was reduced to half what it was during his initial burst of rage, heck even moments like Piccolo's second Makankosappo (even stronger than the first, despite missing an arm and the drain from putting so much power into the first Makankosappo!) probably qualify.

That would also explain why Freeza doesn't understand that his power is dropping until it's too late; it normally doesn't fade THAT fast, and he's never actually been in a situation where he was pushed like that before. Any other situation in his life that he went 100%, he was in perfect health at the time, so the stamina drain might've only been comparable to what the bulky "Ultra/Ascended Super Saiyan" forms had (which seems fitting considering Freeza's "100%" state seems to bulk out the muscles and cause strain-veins to pop out just like those forms) rather than fizzling out in less than a minute of fighting.

Maybe that even explains why Freeza didn't realize his Golden form would come with so much stamina issues -- he figured it would only have the same degree of stamina issues as "100% mode" as long as he was still in good shape when he transformed, when actually it was more along the lines of SSj3's massive stamina drain.