Is Super Saiyan Blue Evolution the SSB version of Super Saiyan 2?

[Dragon Ball Gus]

You read the title
I don't want to say anything
Discuss this

[shadowfox87]

No, I don't think so. If you are saying that SSBE=SSJ2+SSG because SSB=SSJ+SSG, then no. The anime gave Kaioken to Goku on top of Blue. This is an exclusive technique that Vegeta doesn't know. Hence, in order for Vegeta to catch up to Goku, they gave SSBE. In the manga, there's no Kaioken, there's MSSB (Mastered SSB). Goku and Vegeta both have MSSB which is the full power of SSB. The exact same scene in the anime where Goku fights Jiren for the first time and uses SSB + Kaioken x20 is portrayed in the manga with Goku using MSSB. Therefore, MSSB = SSB + Kaioken x20 = SSBE. Further proof of this will come in subsequent chapters of the manga where Goku and Vegeta will fight Jiren together both using MSSB instead of SSB + Kaioken x20 and SSBE in the anime.

[Hugo Boss]

I think it has more similarities with Super Vegeta due to his bulk and intense aura.

By the way, it’s expected that you provide some context to your questions in this forum.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

In a sense, it is.

It's a means by which Vegeta has managed to expand SSB's power immensely, resulting in a new mutation of the original form akin to the way SS2 mutates and evolves regular SS. Of course, this evolution is much greater in power because Vegeta is breaking his limits entirely through absolute determination and selflessness.

The form itself is still technically SSB, just like SS2/3 are both still technically SS, but it's a mutated version that can presumably be tapped into at will now. Technically speaking, Goku COULD potentially also achieve it, but it seems that the shell of his potential is deeper than the power of a mere Saiyan and instead the Ultra Instinct lies within.

[theherodjl]

Not really. SSJBE follows the common schematic of simply being an improved/more powerful version of an existing form, but that doesn't make it SSJB2. What Vegeta demonstrated with SSJBE far outclassed the difference in power & endurance that SSJ2 had over SSJ; being greater than SSJ3 compared to SSJ even. While SSJ2 was simply an upgrade of the first SSJ form which any Saiyan can achieve, SSJBE is Vegeta breaking past limitation in his own, unique way. Until proven otherwise, Goku probably could not use SSJBE as it's Vegeta's mutation.

[sintzu]

It's a lot closer to Assj as it has the same big muscles instead of the sparking aura that Ssj2 has.

[mahakaishin1991]

In a sense, it is.

It's a means by which Vegeta has managed to expand SSB's power immensely, resulting in a new mutation of the original form akin to the way SS2 mutates and evolves regular SS. Of course, this evolution is much greater in power because Vegeta is breaking his limits entirely through absolute determination and selflessness.

The form itself is still technically SSB, just like SS2/3 are both still technically SS, but it's a mutated version that can presumably be tapped into at will now. Technically speaking, Goku COULD potentially also achieve it, but it seems that the shell of his potential is deeper than the power of a mere Saiyan and instead the Ultra Instinct lies within.

Nah man, the bulking up was never part of ssj2 it was grade 2/3's gig

[Logania]

I always just view it as Ascended Super Saiyan Blue, due to the similar physical changes (aside from the pupils, mind you)

Super Saiyan Grade 1 = Super Saiyan Blue
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = Super Saiyan Blue Evolution
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = ???
Super Saiyan Grade 4 = Mastered Super Saiyan Blue

Not in terms of total Saiyan Grade Hierarchy, but just the similarities between the two.

[mute_proxy]

I think it's SSBlue + Vegeta's version of the "Limit Breaking" form. Like how Goku has a version.

[Saturnine]

Comparing it ro Grade 2 isn't fair either. It's more than 20x stronger than SSj Blue, while Grade 2 is usually considered to only be 1,5-2x Grade 1.

[PFM18]

No, I don't think so. If you are saying that SSBE=SSJ2+SSG because SSB=SSJ+SSG, then no. The anime gave Kaioken to Goku on top of Blue. This is an exclusive technique that Vegeta doesn't know. Hence, in order for Vegeta to catch up to Goku, they gave SSBE. In the manga, there's no Kaioken, there's MSSB (Mastered SSB). Goku and Vegeta both have MSSB which is the full power of SSB. The exact same scene in the anime where Goku fights Jiren for the first time and uses SSB + Kaioken x20 is portrayed in the manga with Goku using MSSB. Therefore, MSSB = SSB + Kaioken x20 = SSBE. Further proof of this will come in subsequent chapters of the manga where Goku and Vegeta will fight Jiren together both using MSSB instead of SSB + Kaioken x20 and SSBE in the anime.

I am not sure how you always manage to bring up the manga. I wonder what your reaction will be when SSBE shows up in the manga.....

Either SSBE and GoD Toppo show up or neither of them show up. Both seemed like significant plot points so I don't see either of them being left out of the manga.

[AnimeNation101]

More like Ultra SSJ but for SSB. On a side note, does anyone else see SSJ Rage as False SSBlue or just me?

[shadowfox87]

I am not sure how you always manage to bring up the manga. I wonder what your reaction will be when SSBE shows up in the manga.....

Either SSBE and GoD Toppo show up or neither of them show up. Both seemed like significant plot points so I don't see either of them being left out of the manga.

It won't. SSBE was created because MSSB wasn't in the anime. The same exact scene shown in the anime will be two MSSBs fighting Jiren. No point speculating though. Just gotta wait and see. I bring up manga because it's relevant. I'm not sure why people ignore it.

[Hugo Boss]

On a side note, does anyone else see SSJ Rage as False SSBlue or just me?

I don’t think so. I have the “false” SS as an incomplete version of Super Saiyan or even a concept idea before the final decided look. SS Rage in another hand is implied to be focused on rage, while SSB is more about extreme energy control than rage.

[PFM18]

I am not sure how you always manage to bring up the manga. I wonder what your reaction will be when SSBE shows up in the manga.....

Either SSBE and GoD Toppo show up or neither of them show up. Both seemed like significant plot points so I don't see either of them being left out of the manga.

It won't. SSBE was created because MSSB wasn't in the anime. The same exact scene shown in the anime will be two MSSBs fighting Jiren. No point speculating though. Just gotta wait and see. I bring up manga because it's relevant. I'm not sure why people ignore it.

So then one of two things will happen then:

1. Vegeta defeats GoD Toppo with MSSB even though he is currently even with Base Toppo in MSSB.
2. Toppo is being built up as a GoD candidate for his Universe and Belmod is discussing retirement but nothing comes of either of these things and Toppo doesn't become a GoD.

..And I don't see either of those happening. Since Vegeta defeating Toppo is obviously going to be in both it is just a matter of how it happens. I think SSBE will appear in the manga then

[shadowfox87]

So then one of two things will happen then:

1. Vegeta defeats GoD Toppo with MSSB even though he is currently even with Base Toppo in MSSB.
2. Toppo is being built up as a GoD candidate for his Universe and Belmod is discussing retirement but nothing comes of either of these things and Toppo doesn't become a GoD.

..And I don't see either of those happening. Since Vegeta defeating Toppo is obviously going to be in both it is just a matter of how it happens. I think SSBE will appear in the manga then

In the first match between Goku vs Toppo, regular SSB Goku was already above Toppo. Toppo dodged the punch and kicked Goku in the balls, but if he didn't, he would've been finished. Vegeta's just playing around for now. Anyways, this is all just speculation. We will have to wait and see what actually happens. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll gladly acknowledge it if it happens. I'm not discounting the possibility, but the probability of it happening are low for me. MSSB is on a whole new level as it allowed even Goku to spar with Merged Zamasu equally.

[BlueVegerot]

I'm not sure how you read ch 36 and come to the conclusion that mssb vegeta = toppo. It looked like vegeta had the edge the whole time. Also toppo has already been shown as the next GoD and shown to use god ki in the manga. Episode 125 was the first time the actual show told us about toppo being that

[PFM18]

I'm not sure how you read ch 36 and come to the conclusion that mssb vegeta = toppo. It looked like vegeta had the edge the whole time. Also toppo has already been shown as the next GoD and shown to use god ki in the manga. Episode 125 was the first time the actual show told us about toppo being that

As they were fighting they were about even with Vegeta having the slight edge. If Toppo goes GoD and still loses to MSSB Vegeta it is going to make absolutely no sense.