"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Liquir]

Is the implication here that Toyotaro traced that? Because they're clearly very different. They aren't even in the same angle.

As for who draws the cards: mostly unnamed artists.

No implication of tracing, as I wrote referenced only. Someone uploaded the Dokkan card on twitter and I know it looked familiar, and remembered it was from chapter 36. I can see the differences that are extremely clear, just wondered if it was referenced as it binds similarity...

[batistabus]

Yeap the whole Goku acting as a teacher with the saiyan girls will be nice if won’t happen in the manga .
I can take some dyspo vs the saiyan girls.
Btw the back cover of vol.6 is out there , and it’s interesting.. a planet with 2 moons ? I like it

it is 3 moons

Took me a second to figure out what Toyo was going for this, but it's awesome. No. 17 took everyone on a safari to defend wildlife, so Freeza took the rest to another planet for conquering.

Pointless fights add nothing to a story but page count. If he skips it, I will not care.

Literally couldn't agree more. Kefla was pure fanservice, did nothing to progress the bond between Caulifla and Kale any more than it had already progressed, did nothing for the story, and did nothing for Goku's Ultra Instinct progression that he couldn't have accomplished in another fight (such as with Jiren, for example).

I didn't even personally dislike their battle, and I think that Toyotaro has the potential to make it as fun as the anime's version if he decides to include it, but it's not necessary at all. I wouldn't lose any sleep over its exclusion.

I agree as well. Most things I enjoyed from the ToP were pure, substance-less flash. If Toyotaro excludes any of that, it's because it wasn't in Toriyama's outline and has nothing to do with the important threads that have been developing over the course of the manga's tournament. The anime still exists if you want that spectacle.

-----

I was watching GafferTape's newest Dragon Ball Dissection episode, and it has something that ties to DBS manga chapter 36 that I hadn't realized.

The Dragon Team has gotten so used to tracking people with ki, that they can no longer track No. 20 their eyes. No. 17's ability to pick out Damon with hearing and sight while the others are unable to defeat him through ki sense seems to be a clear callback to this scene. I think it's pretty interesting that Toriyama would include this callback in the ToP. I doubt he remembered it outright, so I'd guess that he either A) re-read the Cell arc to re-familiarize himself with No. 17, or B) has this idea somewhere so far in the back of his mind that he isn't even aware that he's already used it.

[CriticalThinker]

Here's a hot take for you all, the only thing this tournament had going for it was the fan service and the spectacle of the fights. Even if the anime version of the tournament wasn't a incoherent mess I still wouldn't have cared much for the story behind it. And that's how I feel about the manga to be honest, the story is better told and more consistent than the anime version but it's still not all that good. Which is why I'm not all that interested in this version of the tournament thus far as the only thing I had to look forward to were the fights. Yet the fights shown so far haven't been all that good as most have been boring and uncreative and the rather flat art isn't doing it any favours either. If anything the manga more so than the anime made me wish that this tournament was just U11 vs U7 as that would have been more interesting than what we got here. Now this doesn't mean I hate this version of the tournament or anything I've just found to be dull so far.

[prince212]

Here's a hot take for you all, the only thing this tournament had going for it was the fan service and the spectacle of the fights. Even if the anime version of the tournament wasn't a incoherent mess I still wouldn't have cared much for the story behind it. And that's how I feel about the manga to be honest, the story is better told and more consistent than the anime version but it's still not all that good. Which is why I'm not all that interested in this version of the tournament thus far as the only thing I had to look forward to were the fights. Yet the fights shown so far haven't been all that good as most have been boring and uncreative and the rather flat art isn't doing it any favours either. If anything the manga more so than the anime made me wish that this tournament was just U11 vs U7 as that would have been more interesting than what we got here. Now this doesn't mean I hate this version of the tournament or anything I've just found to be dull so far.

I kinda agree with the whole idea , not that far to found it dull , because there’s always small details, differences or gags that I enjoy , but yes this scenario makes it not super attractive, I guess the fact of knowing the final result helps to begin with. T.o.P anime was awesome in the last 2 chapters, I doubt the manga ending will make it better , let’s see

[TKA]

Here's a hot take for you all, the only thing this tournament had going for it was the fan service and the spectacle of the fights.

That's why I was never okay with this tournament existing since it got announced.

However, the manga is proving me wrong since Toyotaro is furthering character arcs and ideas he's been developing since the manga started. There's actual progress being made in the manga's rendition.

[Marlowe89]

Here's a hot take for you all, the only thing this tournament had going for it was the fan service and the spectacle of the fights.

I disagree, and I think the manga proves otherwise. A battle royale is supposed to feel unpredictable and chaotic, which is exciting in its own right. When major characters like Piccolo get eliminated at the drop of a hat without even knowing what hit them, that's entirely thrilling and exemplifies what the tournament is all about. Our protagonists are forced into an uncertain, dangerous dilemma and the whole environment is their opponent. Fanservice and spectacle not only completely fail to accomplish that, they actively run counter to it.

I think the heart of the issue is that people are looking for things that the manga (or more arguably the outline itself) wasn't trying to convey in the first place, so when the manga doesn't go that route, it's criticized for it. This is unfair because it's judging that medium by a totally different set of standards that it didn't actually need.

[EGonzo]

Finally got around to reading the latest chapter, and... man, what happened to Toyo?

I haven't been a huge fan of the manga, but I could still respect he was trying to tell his own version and sometimes the fights were fun to look at, but these past few chapters have been terrible. The artwork is flat and amateurish in some points, the fights are incredible uncreative compared to the Black Arc (which I didn't like, but his fight scenes kept me going through it), and probably the worst thing, the storytelling is just abysmal.

I've always seen that as Toyo's biggest weakness, he just can't write the story properly; there's no soul, no "holy shit!" big moments in the entire manga so far (there have been a few "hey that's pretty cool" parts, but nothing that really blows your mind or stays with you like the anime did, for better or worse), and the characters are very underused. Basically the point of this arc was "hey, all your favorite characters are back for one last ride where everyone can be useful", and he already wasted almost half of them without giving them a good moment. Say what you will about the anime if you don't like it, but it tried: it gave us Piccolo's fight with the Namekians, Krillin's practice battle with Goku and saving 18, 18 herself beating Rebrianne and saving 17, Tien's...
I mean not even Goku's had good moments. Anime Goku had Master Roshi's near death and his teamup with Hit before the big fight. In the manga he just has a small clash with the Pride Troopers before facing Jiren, and that fight just feels like "eh, guess they're fighting now" instead of the big hype that was the anime.

I'll keep reading the manga because I stick with Dragon Ball through the good times and the bad, but I really don't think Toyo can pull a surprise and awe us.

[majinwarman]

That Gohan looks painfully close to Yamcha

I noticed that as well.

[Vegeta_Sama]

That Gohan looks painfully close to Yamcha

I noticed that as well.

They shouldn't have gotten rid of his bang. Or even his RoF haircut.

[prince212]

That Gohan looks painfully close to Yamcha

I noticed that as well.

They shouldn't have gotten rid of his bang. Or even his RoF haircut.

Gohan wearing glasses might be perfect for that back cover , and may be always

[Miracles]

Anyone has any info who draws the DBZ Dokkan Battle Cards?
Also is the Vegeta kick pose in the recent chapter 36 Referenced by this Vegeta DBZ Dokkan battle card or is it just similar?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

THAT TOO IS A TRACE!!! LOOK AT THE MIDDLE CORE'S OF BOTH VEGETA'S THEY LINE UP PERFECTLY!

TO TWEETER!! TO YOUTUBE!! TOYOTARO HAS TO GO TOMORROW!!!

I was watching GafferTape's newest Dragon Ball Dissection episode, and it has something that ties to DBS manga chapter 36 that I hadn't realized.

The Dragon Team has gotten so used to tracking people with ki, that they can no longer track No. 20 their eyes. No. 17's ability to pick out Damon with hearing and sight while the others are unable to defeat him through ki sense seems to be a clear callback to this scene. I think it's pretty interesting that Toriyama would include this callback in the ToP. I doubt he remembered it outright, so I'd guess that he either A) re-read the Cell arc to re-familiarize himself with No. 17, or B) has this idea somewhere so far in the back of his mind that he isn't even aware that he's already used it.

No longer track no 20 with their eyes? Did that happen in the Cell saga?

[majinwarman]

That Gohan looks painfully close to Yamcha

I noticed that as well.

They shouldn't have gotten rid of his bang. Or even his RoF haircut.

The bang helps us know it is him.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think this imagine looks freaking Awesome! Especially Tien and Piccolo.. the two who vowed never to wear the Saiyan/Freeza armor lol. Plus its just always nice to see Picoolo in something different for a change.

[batistabus]

Here's a hot take for you all, the only thing this tournament had going for it was the fan service and the spectacle of the fights. Even if the anime version of the tournament wasn't a incoherent mess I still wouldn't have cared much for the story behind it. And that's how I feel about the manga to be honest, the story is better told and more consistent than the anime version but it's still not all that good. Which is why I'm not all that interested in this version of the tournament thus far as the only thing I had to look forward to were the fights. Yet the fights shown so far haven't been all that good as most have been boring and uncreative and the rather flat art isn't doing it any favours either. If anything the manga more so than the anime made me wish that this tournament was just U11 vs U7 as that would have been more interesting than what we got here. Now this doesn't mean I hate this version of the tournament or anything I've just found to be dull so far.

I agree with pretty much everything Marlowe89 said. Just because the anime relied so heavily on fan-service, that doesn't mean that's what Toriyama had in mind, or that Toyotaro should be pigeonholed by it. Of course, the return of Freeza and No. 17 are inherently fan service decisions, but these are the characters that seem to develop the most.

Some appeals of the ToP outside of fan service:

-A hectic battle situation, the likes that nobody has ever seen before
-mysterious new fighters from different universes with strange abilities and formidable strength
-further development of the power of gods (seen through Goku, Vegeta, and Toppo)
-further expansion of the godly realm and beyond
-what has Universe 6 been up to?

So far, I think the manga has done a much better job handling each of those categories. Of course, having seen the anime, we already know the answers to these questions for the most part. I can understand not finding the same excitement in a second telling.

No longer track no 20 with their eyes? Did that happen in the Cell saga?

I encourage to watch the video! No. 20 is able to slip under the radar of Vegeta and co. because they cannot sense his ki and have become rusty when it comes to identifying opponents with their normal senses. This reference appears to be more direct in the anime, where No. 17 makes a similar comment about ki sensing being something that the heroes rely on too much.

[Miracles]

I encourage to watch the video! No. 20 is able to slip under the radar of Vegeta and co. because they cannot sense his ki and have become rusty when it comes to identifying opponents with their normal senses. This reference appears to be more direct in the anime, where No. 17 makes a similar comment about ki sensing being something that the heroes rely on too much.

[alakazam^]

That happened in the anime?

If so, that's remarkably stupid. They're in another dimension. The only place he could get genki from is the arena, and I highly doubt the 50 or so people there could generate enough genki to make a spirit bomb strong enough to kill even Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

But knowing the anime, I bet the spirit bomb was huge for some reason.

So, you spend all this time bashing the anime for who-knows-what reason and you haven't even watched it... Praising the manga to no end already reeked of bias but I have no idea how you want people to take you seriously when, apparently, you don't even know what you're talking about.

-mysterious new fighters from different universes with strange abilities and formidable strength
-further development of the power of gods (seen through Goku, Vegeta, and Toppo)
-further expansion of the godly realm and beyond
-what has Universe 6 been up to?

So far, I think the manga has done a much better job handling each of those categories.

Where did the manga do a better job than the anime? The manga didn't even touch half of those points.

[Saiga]

That happened in the anime?

If so, that's remarkably stupid. They're in another dimension. The only place he could get genki from is the arena, and I highly doubt the 50 or so people there could generate enough genki to make a spirit bomb strong enough to kill even Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

But knowing the anime, I bet the spirit bomb was huge for some reason.

So, you spend all this time bashing the anime for who-knows-what reason and you haven't even watched it... Praising the manga to no end already reeked of bias but I have no idea how you want people to take you seriously when, apparently, you don't even know what you're talking about.

Except his guess was totally on the mark for what happened, so clearly he knows the anime well enough even without seeing that part.

I haven't seen all of the anime either - missing the middle chunk of the Black arc, and the recruitment episodes mostly - but I've seen enough to be able to judge how it is written and notice the trends.

[alakazam^]

Except his guess was totally on the mark for what happened, so clearly he knows the anime well enough even without seeing that part.

I haven't seen all of the anime either - missing the middle chunk of the Black arc, and the recruitment episodes mostly - but I've seen enough to be able to judge how it is written and notice the trends.

A guess is a guess, it doesn't make you know what you're talking about which is proven by the fact the criticism he made about the Genkidama being wrong.

[Saiga]

It's not wrong however. It's exactly as he described - from the participants in the ring, Goku firmed a huge Genkidama that everyone believed would defeat Jiren.

[prince212]

About the Genki Dama thing ... I hope that won’t happen in the manga . I.i.r.c the first ultra instinct was because Goku ate his own genkidama.. weird stuff, better keep ultra instinct for the last battle and make a better build up for that form( Goku already said to hit something related ...)