I still don''t consider Manga Kale any stronger than her anime counterpart. But, even with that in mind, Gohan will have to be incredibly powerful to fight Kefla, given that she is likely as strong as she is in the anime.dragon boss z wrote:I feel Kale was overpowered a bit, making Gohan having any sort of chance against ssj Kefla make no sense. Either that or ssj Kefla is barely stronger than Kale, or is maybe the same level with better speed and control, but even then Gohan shouldn't be above SSB or Golden Frieza. I guess we'll see next chapter, but it's being heavily implies he is about to do something.
Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Last edited by Omniboy on Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I think Gohan will put up a fight, but he definitely has something planned. He isn't stupid enough to think he can win by combat strength alone.dragon boss z wrote:I feel Kale was overpowered a bit, making Gohan having any sort of chance against ssj Kefla make no sense. Either that or ssj Kefla is barely stronger than Kale, or is maybe the same level with better speed and control, but even then Gohan shouldn't be above SSB or Golden Frieza. I guess we'll see next chapter, but it's being heavily implies he is about to do something.
It took 5 blue tiers to defeat Anilaza in the anime. Kale did it by herself in the manga. She's stronger, it's not hard to see.Omniboy wrote:I still don''t consider Manga Kale any stronger than her anime counterpart.dragon boss z wrote:I feel Kale was overpowered a bit, making Gohan having any sort of chance against ssj Kefla make no sense. Either that or ssj Kefla is barely stronger than Kale, or is maybe the same level with better speed and control, but even then Gohan shouldn't be above SSB or Golden Frieza. I guess we'll see next chapter, but it's being heavily implies he is about to do something.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
But is Anilaza as strong as he is in the anime? The strength of the antagonist do differ from time to time.Bergamo wrote:I think Gohan will put up a fight, but he definitely has something planned. He isn't stupid enough to think he can win by combat strength alone.dragon boss z wrote:I feel Kale was overpowered a bit, making Gohan having any sort of chance against ssj Kefla make no sense. Either that or ssj Kefla is barely stronger than Kale, or is maybe the same level with better speed and control, but even then Gohan shouldn't be above SSB or Golden Frieza. I guess we'll see next chapter, but it's being heavily implies he is about to do something.It took 5 blue tiers to defeat Anilaza in the anime. Kale did it by herself in the manga. She's stronger, it's not hard to see.Omniboy wrote:I still don''t consider Manga Kale any stronger than her anime counterpart.dragon boss z wrote:I feel Kale was overpowered a bit, making Gohan having any sort of chance against ssj Kefla make no sense. Either that or ssj Kefla is barely stronger than Kale, or is maybe the same level with better speed and control, but even then Gohan shouldn't be above SSB or Golden Frieza. I guess we'll see next chapter, but it's being heavily implies he is about to do something.
Last edited by Omniboy on Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
They're not the same form, they don't have the same disadvantages; a pointless callback is just a pointless callback. If Kale was slow, she wouldn't be hitting characters like Toppo, Vegeta and Freeza. And even if she is slow, she still shouldn't be getting hurt. She's not exhausting herself, if anything she keeps getting stronger since her form is literally Broly's form, who kept getting stronger.Bergamo wrote:The tweet says that the line is a direct reference to Trunks from the cell saga. Trunks was too slow, thus why you can infer that Kale is too slow. Also, the tweet implies that this is a problem with her form, not that she's just bad at martial arts.
Nobody misunderstands the manga. You're the one trying to excuse everything while ignoring the original series' logic.Bergamo wrote:I'm thinking about making a post to explain the powerscaling in the manga, so that people like you will stop your blind hatred.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Sigh.Bergamo wrote:Oh look, a other person who dislikes the manga because they don't fundamentally understand it.ZombieVito wrote:The power scale in the manga was already screwed when they decided to give Black a Super Saiyan form.The gr wrote:WTF Base Gohan deflected a ki blast from SSJ Kefla like it was nothing.Next month is gonna be the biggest shitshow, R.I.P to the powerscaling in the manga.
This chapter is seriously awful and ruins the tournament. How can anyone defend the manga is beyond me.
Let me guess...
-"Super Saiyan Black is fighting SSB Vegeta! Screw context, that's duuuuummmb.:
-"Vegeta using SSG is duuummmb."
-"I wanted to wait another 3 months for the fodder characters to get eliminated. Actually, if that happened I'd call the manga boring."
I'm thinking about making a post to explain the powerscaling in the manga, so that people like you will stop your blind hatred.
Since they gave Black Super Saiyan then that means he has 2, 3 and God. This means that since his base is over 400 times stronger than Goku's then his Rose form is 400 times stronger than Blue.
Power scale broken. The anime did the right thing to not only skip Super Saiyan but to say Rose is his version of Super Saiyan not Blue.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I'm even surprised you like that mess of a manga since Bergamo was awful on it.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Kale hit Frieza and Goku because she wasn't as bulky then. She got a lot bigger in between then and when she fought the pride troopers.Doctor. wrote:They're not the same form, they don't have the same disadvantages; a pointless callback is just a pointless callback. If Kale was slow, she wouldn't be hitting characters like Toppo, Vegeta and Freeza.Bergamo wrote:The tweet says that the line is a direct reference to Trunks from the cell saga. Trunks was too slow, thus why you can infer that Kale is too slow. Also, the tweet implies that this is a problem with her form, not that she's just bad at martial arts.
Nobody misunderstands the manga. You're the one trying to excuse everything while ignoring the original series' logic.Bergamo wrote:I'm thinking about making a post to explain the powerscaling in the manga, so that people like you will stop your blind hatred.
I think many people misunderstand things like SSJ Black vs SSB Vegeta. I don't think the manga is flawless, but so many people hate on it for no good reason.
Black having super saiyan does not mean he has the rest of the forms. That makes no sense.ZombieVito wrote:Sigh.Bergamo wrote:Oh look, a other person who dislikes the manga because they don't fundamentally understand it.ZombieVito wrote: The power scale in the manga was already screwed when they decided to give Black a Super Saiyan form.
This chapter is seriously awful and ruins the tournament. How can anyone defend the manga is beyond me.
Let me guess...
-"Super Saiyan Black is fighting SSB Vegeta! Screw context, that's duuuuummmb.:
-"Vegeta using SSG is duuummmb."
-"I wanted to wait another 3 months for the fodder characters to get eliminated. Actually, if that happened I'd call the manga boring."
I'm thinking about making a post to explain the powerscaling in the manga, so that people like you will stop your blind hatred.
Since they gave Black Super Saiyan then that means he has 2, 3 and God. This means that since his base is over 400 times stronger than Goku's then his Rose form is 400 times stronger than Blue.
Power scale broken. The anime did the right thing to not only skip Super Saiyan but to say Rose is his version of Super Saiyan not Blue.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I'm even surprised you like that mess of a manga since Bergamo was awful on it.
Black says, "The soul of a God and the body of a saiyan are INCREASINGLY becoming one and the same." This means that the transformation from Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan Rose is gradual. When he fought Vegeta he was 90% transformed, and that's why he had God tier strength in a mortal form.
Last edited by Bergamo on Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Now to be clear it is his version of SSB but it can't have the same multiplier as SSB. Otherwise, that would make Super Saiyan Rose Black 100x stronger than Goku/Vegeta which clearly is not the case.Power scale broken. The anime did the right thing to not only skip Super Saiyan but to say Rose is his version of Super Saiyan not Blue.
Or atleast in the anime that is how things are shown. I can't speak for that Toyotaro's loose stool version of DBS.
Spoiler:
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Fine. In the same chapter, Kale hit Toppo and Vegeta. And she lifted Magetta a few pages later with one hand (someone SS Vegeta couldn't even budge), indicating no power loss in the slightest.Bergamo wrote:Kale hit Frieza and Goku because she wasn't as bulky then. She got a lot bigger in between then and when she fought the pride troopers.
I think many people misunderstand things like SSJ Black vs SSB Vegeta. I don't think the manga is flawless, but so many people hate on it for no good reason.
There's nothing to misunderstand. Vegeta ate a senzu, meaning he was at full power, and he still, at the very best, tied with Super Saiyan Black. That's an issue whether you personally think it's big or not. You can argue whether it's an issue with the portrayal of Vegeta's power between his two fights or with his huge training increase in the RoSaT, but it's an issue nonetheless.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Vegeta was at full power(for as long as full power actually lasts in un-mastered blue). Black was equal to him in Super Saiyan. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying why it happened.Doctor. wrote:Fine. In the same chapter, Kale hit Toppo and Vegeta. And she lifted Magetta a few pages later with one hand (someone SS Vegeta couldn't even budge), indicating no power loss in the slightest.Bergamo wrote:Kale hit Frieza and Goku because she wasn't as bulky then. She got a lot bigger in between then and when she fought the pride troopers.
I think many people misunderstand things like SSJ Black vs SSB Vegeta. I don't think the manga is flawless, but so many people hate on it for no good reason.
There's nothing to misunderstand. Vegeta ate a senzu, meaning he was at full power, and he still, at the very best, tied with Super Saiyan Black. That's an issue whether you personally think it's big or not. You can argue whether it's an issue with the portrayal of Vegeta's power between his two fights or with his huge training increase in the RoSaT, but it's an issue nonetheless.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
So you agree that SSB Vegeta is equal to Super Saiyan Black, and you're still saying it's not an issue and people are misunderstanding the scene.Bergamo wrote:Vegeta was at full power(for as long as full power actually lasts in un-mastered blue). Black was equal to him in Super Saiyan. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying why it happened.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Yes.Doctor. wrote:So you agree that SSB Vegeta is equal to Super Saiyan Black, and you're still saying it's not an issue and people are misunderstanding the scene.Bergamo wrote:Vegeta was at full power(for as long as full power actually lasts in un-mastered blue). Black was equal to him in Super Saiyan. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying why it happened.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I've definitely find Base Gohan deflecting an attack from SSJ Kefla worst because in chapter 34 like 98 it focused on the characters conserving their full power later on as we know the Trio are base tier and giving trouble to base Gohan but now he casually swipe a ki blast from a SSJ Kefla who is far stronger than U9.ZombieVito wrote: Sigh.
Since they gave Black Super Saiyan then that means he has 2, 3 and God. This means that since his base is over 400 times stronger than Goku's then his Rose form is 400 times stronger than Blue.
Power scale broken. The anime did the right thing to not only skip Super Saiyan but to say Rose is his version of Super Saiyan not Blue.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I'm even surprised you like that mess of a manga since Bergamo was awful on it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
You're not explaining yourself.Bergamo wrote:Yes.Doctor. wrote:So you agree that SSB Vegeta is equal to Super Saiyan Black, and you're still saying it's not an issue and people are misunderstanding the scene.Bergamo wrote:Vegeta was at full power(for as long as full power actually lasts in un-mastered blue). Black was equal to him in Super Saiyan. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying why it happened.
Vegeta's strength is either inconsistently portrayed in both fights, or he gets ridiculously stronger in a short amount of time in the RoSaT.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I don't see how Black's SS is an issue when it was already explained how and why it was becoming gradually stronger, now Vegeta's SS2 is something that could be discussed.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
TBH, even the anime idea of Rose just being Black's SS causes problems, that should also mean he has a version of 2, 3, God and Blue. Why isn't there a Rose 2 or a Rose 3? It's an issue I'm not really sure how to go about fixing between the two versions short of just cutting out the idea of Black having SS forms period.ZombieVito wrote:Sigh.
Since they gave Black Super Saiyan then that means he has 2, 3 and God. This means that since his base is over 400 times stronger than Goku's then his Rose form is 400 times stronger than Blue.
Power scale broken. The anime did the right thing to not only skip Super Saiyan but to say Rose is his version of Super Saiyan not Blue.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I'm even surprised you like that mess of a manga since Bergamo was awful on it.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Just make his base form as strong as the other Saiyans (or slightly stronger for tension's sake). Maybe it loses impact in terms of Black being this super strong Goku lookalike if he's using SS2 and SS3 to take care of Trunks, but it's a good fix.ekrolo2 wrote:TBH, even the anime idea of Rose just being Black's SS causes problems, that should also mean he has a version of 2, 3, God and Blue. Why isn't there a Rose 2 or a Rose 3? It's an issue I'm not really sure how to go about fixing between the two versions short of just cutting out the idea of Black having SS forms period.ZombieVito wrote:Sigh.
Since they gave Black Super Saiyan then that means he has 2, 3 and God. This means that since his base is over 400 times stronger than Goku's then his Rose form is 400 times stronger than Blue.
Power scale broken. The anime did the right thing to not only skip Super Saiyan but to say Rose is his version of Super Saiyan not Blue.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I'm even surprised you like that mess of a manga since Bergamo was awful on it.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I don't see the problem. The point of the RoSaT is power boosts.Doctor. wrote:You're not explaining yourself.Bergamo wrote:Yes.Doctor. wrote: So you agree that SSB Vegeta is equal to Super Saiyan Black, and you're still saying it's not an issue and people are misunderstanding the scene.
Vegeta's strength is either inconsistently portrayed in both fights, or he gets ridiculously stronger in a short amount of time in the RoSaT.
Vegeta God/Blue > Rosé Black > Super Saiyan Black = Blue Vegeta
In terms of pure 100% strength, Blue Vegeta was stronger than Rosé by a lot, but the entire point of the arc is that they can't use pure 100% strength until the very end.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I mean, you can just give him a powerful Base form instead. His regular state is already WAY stronger than Goku's default one so you can just make him a quasi-Ultimate type thing.Doctor. wrote:Just make his base form as strong as the other Saiyans (or slightly stronger for tension's sake). Maybe it loses impact in terms of Black being this super strong Goku lookalike if he's using SS2 and SS3 to take care of Trunks, but it's a good fix.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The RoSaT barely made Goku and Vegeta any stronger in 3 years and you're saying Vegeta got dozens of times stronger in 6 months?Bergamo wrote:I don't see the problem. The point of the RoSaT is power boosts.Doctor. wrote:You're not explaining yourself.Bergamo wrote: Yes.
Vegeta's strength is either inconsistently portrayed in both fights, or he gets ridiculously stronger in a short amount of time in the RoSaT.
Vegeta God/Blue > Rosé Black > Super Saiyan Black = Blue Vegeta
In terms of pure 100% strength, Blue Vegeta was stronger than Rosé by a lot, but the entire point of the arc is that they can't use pure 100% strength until the very end.
You realize, at the very least, how arbitrary his power boost is?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Vegeta didn't get dozens of times stronger. I don't know what that assertion is based off of.Doctor. wrote:The RoSaT barely made Goku and Vegeta any stronger in 3 years and you're saying Vegeta got dozens of times stronger in 6 months?Bergamo wrote:I don't see the problem. The point of the RoSaT is power boosts.Doctor. wrote: You're not explaining yourself.
Vegeta's strength is either inconsistently portrayed in both fights, or he gets ridiculously stronger in a short amount of time in the RoSaT.
Vegeta God/Blue > Rosé Black > Super Saiyan Black = Blue Vegeta
In terms of pure 100% strength, Blue Vegeta was stronger than Rosé by a lot, but the entire point of the arc is that they can't use pure 100% strength until the very end.
You realize, at the very least, how arbitrary his power boost is?
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations
DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations