What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by OhHiRenan » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:15 pm

I continue to prefer the manga's depiction of the ToP. It's definitely fast paced, but I think Toyo will slow it down and give it some much needed focus (something the anime version sorely lacked) now that the roster's been thinned out.

On that note, using Kale to eat through the competition was the smartest thing Toyo could have possibly done. The anime failed to give a single minor fighter depth, so Kale knocking dozens of characters out for the sake of drama is the far better approach in the long run.

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Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

Post by Spider-Man » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:37 pm

So far I'm not liking it thanks to that abomination known as chapter 38.
    The characters are forgettable and weak, they have no personality and while in the anime are not really original with the personality but at least provide a challenge to U7 and 6.
      The Pacing is terrible, there no focus on characters and it doesn't help that most of the characters get one shooted or have an off screen elimination. U9 is the only Universes with a clear focus episode while its not perfect but I take that any day over what were getting right now.
        I lost hope for the manga and I'm not excited for the next chapter because I known Toyotaro will rushed this just to catch up for the movie.

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        Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

        Post by PFM18 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:43 pm

        I get the feeling that Toyo isn't putting much effort into the manga and he is rushing it. The not so subtle exposition about the "Legendary Super Saiyan" and his apparent love for Broly makes me think he is looking ahead to that rather than focusing on what is happening now in the story. He's just kind of twiddling his thumbs waiting for the chance to write the manga iteration of Broly's story.

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        Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

        Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:57 pm

        I am beginning to think that Toyotaro is either 1) pressed to wrap it up or 2) never really liked the idea of a battle royale and had to go through it because he has to follow Toriyama's bullet points. So he decided to get rid of all the non-top-tiers as quickly as possible. I mean, half of the characters that got eliminated got eliminated in a way that almost borders on parody.

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        Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

        Post by precita » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:06 pm

        The manga is dead to me now. I hate it. It's "Le fanfiction."

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        Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

        Post by Bergamo » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:46 pm

        precita wrote:The manga is dead to me now. I hate it. It's "Le fanfiction."
        Nice argument, bro.
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        Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

        Post by BWri » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:41 pm

        Spider-Man wrote:So far I'm not liking it thanks to that abomination known as chapter 38.
          The characters are forgettable and weak, they have no personality and while in the anime are not really original with the personality but at least provide a challenge to U7 and 6.
            The Pacing is terrible, there no focus on characters and it doesn't help that most of the characters get one shooted or have an off screen elimination. U9 is the only Universes with a clear focus episode while its not perfect but I take that any day over what were getting right now.
              I lost hope for the manga and I'm not excited for the next chapter because I known Toyotaro will rushed this just to catch up for the movie.
              Wow, I share most of these opinions. I started off high on this arc in the manga with some reservations with the pacing. My favorite moments thus far are when Frost when on his rampage (though I feel Krillin and Tien shouldn't have been eliminated so unceremoniously). My character preferences aside, I feel that Toyotaro isn't getting to tell the story he wants to tell. In this case, I think there is something limiting his storytelling potential for this arc. Perhaps he is to blame as well, but the manga now feels really rushed and kinda directionless as of this latest chapter. It overall has a bland feel, which shouldn't be the case with this amount of unique characters and powers along with the high stakes of the tournament. We get little moments here and there, but its not enough to hold my interest. If next month doesn't improve, I'll go ahead and drop the manga for the remainder of the arc. It hasn't given me a reason to keep up with it since its not exploring anything that the anime hasn't.
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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by KeKeKe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:32 pm

              I would never stop reading the manga, even when things don't go as I was expecting beforehand (which is indeed the case here). That's simply not my approach to Dragon Ball, regardless of my disappointment here and there. In spite of all the criticism, this is still a great story with great characters and I always try to stay positive and see the good side in any situation. So, the manga version of the Tournament of Power really is a letdown according to me, it's messy, it's rushed and it's chaotic (and I've already pointed out my arguments in previous messages, just like many other forum members with the same opinion did), but I'm trying to focus on what's next in the manga, hoping that at least the remaining fights will be decent and entertaining enough!

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:04 pm

              I hate it. I used to think it was bad. Today I read chapter 38. It was horrible. It was painful. Let me think of some positive things about it:
              1: Universe 4 invisible warriors eliminated more than just a few guys
              2: Universe 7 wasn't the only one to eliminate a Universe
              3: Not every "main character" (Hit, Krillin for example) got an excessive amount of screentime.

              Number 1 isn't enough because Universe 4 was still wasted as a complete non-threat.
              Number 2 was done way excessively. Kale does not deserve this.
              Number 3 was done way excessively. Krillin and Hit deserved something. Hit shouldn't be tossed aside just to show how epic and badass Jiren is.

              Ribrianne's character was ruined. The anime may have been drawn out for most of it and rushed during episodes 117-121 but at least most fights lasted more than a couple of seconds. Does Universe 7 really deserve to just knock everyone out with a single punch? I'm looking at you, 17. I'm doing my own re-writing of the Tournament, actually. Here's my plan:

              Universe 2 eliminates Universe 9. Kamikaze Fireballs vs Trio de Dangers.
              Universe 11 eliminates Universe 10. Jiren stomps Obuni, but has respect for him.
              Universe 4 eliminates Universes 2 and 6. Damon and Gamisaras wait for the perfect moment to make their reveal. As 6 and 7 are teaming up against 2, they finish of 2 and 6 and do some damage to 7.
              Universe 7 eliminates Universe 4. Ultra Instinct is the perfect weapon to defeat the Undetectable Warriors.
              Universes 7 and 11 eliminate Universe 3. Anilaza is going to defeat everyone, so they have to do a little team-up before their 1v1 showdown.
              Universe 7 wins. Jiren locks onto Gogeta with an attack, but Gogeta defuses seconds before the time runs out. Because they defuse they are able to avoid the attack and win because Universe 11 only has one fighter left.

              Is it pandering to my love of Gogeta? Yes, but Gogeta doesn't actually beat Jiren, time just runs out. Is the power scaling balanced? Maybe not, but at least more people get a chance to shine.

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:14 am

              R. Daneel Olivaw wrote:I hate it. I used to think it was bad. Today I read chapter 38. It was horrible. It was painful. Let me think of some positive things about it:
              1: Universe 4 invisible warriors eliminated more than just a few guys
              2: Universe 7 wasn't the only one to eliminate a Universe
              3: Not every "main character" (Hit, Krillin for example) got an excessive amount of screentime.

              Number 1 isn't enough because Universe 4 was still wasted as a complete non-threat.
              Number 2 was done way excessively. Kale does not deserve this.
              Number 3 was done way excessively. Krillin and Hit deserved something. Hit shouldn't be tossed aside just to show how epic and badass Jiren is.

              Ribrianne's character was ruined. The anime may have been drawn out for most of it and rushed during episodes 117-121 but at least most fights lasted more than a couple of seconds. Does Universe 7 really deserve to just knock everyone out with a single punch? I'm looking at you, 17. I'm doing my own re-writing of the Tournament, actually. Here's my plan:

              Universe 2 eliminates Universe 9. Kamikaze Fireballs vs Trio de Dangers.
              Universe 11 eliminates Universe 10. Jiren stomps Obuni, but has respect for him.
              Universe 4 eliminates Universes 2 and 6. Damon and Gamisaras wait for the perfect moment to make their reveal. As 6 and 7 are teaming up against 2, they finish of 2 and 6 and do some damage to 7.
              Universe 7 eliminates Universe 4. Ultra Instinct is the perfect weapon to defeat the Undetectable Warriors.
              Universes 7 and 11 eliminate Universe 3. Anilaza is going to defeat everyone, so they have to do a little team-up before their 1v1 showdown.
              Universe 7 wins. Jiren locks onto Gogeta with an attack, but Gogeta defuses seconds before the time runs out. Because they defuse they are able to avoid the attack and win because Universe 11 only has one fighter left.

              Is it pandering to my love of Gogeta? Yes, but Gogeta doesn't actually beat Jiren, time just runs out. Is the power scaling balanced? Maybe not, but at least more people get a chance to shine.
              I get you like universe 4, but having them eliminate the most universes, one of which is universe 6(the universe that is actually supposed to be important) isn't an improvement at all. You think it's too much for Kale to be so strong, but you want u4 to be super important and require ultra instinct to defeat? That reeks of bias.
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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by Kogu 87 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:03 am

              The anime provided some nice backstory to quite a few of the tournament's competitors. You get to know their personalities, motivations and fighting styles.

              The manga completely glosses over this, and in my opinion suffers greatly for it.

              Consuming both mediums if fine, but i don't think one can read the ToP manga on its own and enjoy it. The pacing is very poor.
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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by wolflonnie » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:12 am

              One thing that the manga does better is the feeling of a battle royale.
              That's literally it. Anime wins in every and any other regards.
              Also, unpopular opinion: I don't think manga Kale is that big of an improvement over the anime counterpart. She still feels like a generic and boring character to me.

              If we're including pre-ToP as well:
              - The manga version had a slightly better idea for the Zen exhibition match: Beerus FINALLY did something, other than eating. But I still prefer Buu and Gohan's anime fights overall. So anime wins.
              - The recruitment arc was basically skipped in the manga, while the anime did it mostly in a positive way (Frieza especially). I mean just rewatch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZtGfSk0yEU

              All-in-all: manga has almost nothing over the anime thus far.

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:51 am

              Bergamo wrote:I get you like universe 4, but having them eliminate the most universes, one of which is universe 6(the universe that is actually supposed to be important) isn't an improvement at all. You think it's too much for Kale to be so strong, but you want u4 to be super important and require ultra instinct to defeat? That reeks of bias.
              I think it makes more sense to have an undetectable fighter require Ultra Instinct to defeat than Kefla. Kefla was just strong. That's the same case with Jiren, but I want to show Ultra Instinct has uses beyond just making you stronger. I think using Ultra Instinct to defeat someone who is weaker than you but you cannot consciously perceive would be an ideal strategy. This is more exciting than "Oh, he's just invisible. Shoot some dust around, I guess."
              The problem is so many manga characters were wasted and didn't fight anyone. I know it's supposed to be a battle royale, but apparently that means the only people who can actually fight besides Jiren are from Universes 6 and 7. I like Obuni's generic motive of "I wanna protect my family."
              I mean, was every fighter Kale eliminated an absolute idiot and Vegeta was the first to realize how to properly fight against a rage monster like her?

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by Exline » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:52 am

              Bergamo wrote:
              Exline wrote:
              Omniboy wrote:
              Not to repeat dbgtFO what said, but he is completely correct. It's easy to look back at someone's work and then say "Well I could do better than that" by looking at something you don't like, and replacing it with something you do like. But without the groundwork of the author's work, and us being put in the same shoes as he/she, we would likely struggle with whatever ambitious ideas we have. I know because I am also guilty of this mindset from time to time.

              Note that this isn't a stance against criticizing said author, as much as it is just saying that this isn't as easy we would like it to be, especially with this dumb idea of a tournament that should have not been so ambitious.
              My first statement was a bit exaggerated. However I still believe dealing with a battle royale is honestly not that difficult.

              Toyotaro is just an amateur with potential to do better, but the way he handles this arc is concerning after all the many great things he had done prior to Chapter 34. He just doesn't seem dedicated at all to this arc. The main reason why most having been enjoying this arc is due to his terrible storyboarding and amateurish writing. This was not present in the previous arcs imo, however it;s become a constant problem ever since this tournament started. Everything feels incredibly rushed (please people don't deny it, 20+ eliminated in one chapter + Off-screen eliminations). The majority of eliminations throughout this tournament were so lackluster and had no entertainment factor whatsoever. It really feels like we're reading shitty fanfiction at this point.
              The good ol' fanfiction "argument." I thought it was interesting how there were 4 members of universe 4 left, one of them was eliminated in Chapter 36, one of them could be seen flying off the stage during Kale's shockwave, and the last two were shown being dropped off by Kale. Toyotaro has been doing a good job at keeping track of characters, and getting dropped by Kale is more interesting than anything Shantza or the Tuffle(who is just there because he's a tuffle) could do. It's not that Toyo isn't dedicated to this arc, it's that he'd rather show Kale than fodder #68.
              Fanfiction argument?

              And no he hasn't. Characters appear to be fighting one individual in the previous chapter and then suddenly disappear. This happened in the very first chapter with Frost fighting that Spider-Guy from U9 and then suddenly attacking krillin without eliminating the man he was just overpowering.

              Also I really dislike how you and the other current manga supporters quickly disregard NEW Fighters. Not even wanting to give them a chance to do what they haven't even shown they can do? What is this mentality...

              All I want are moments like in Chapter 34 where Hop extended her nails to catch Rozelle (Which is odd since he could fly??). Show us new abilities and techniques. I'm not asking for each character to get 10 pages o a chapter dedicated to their ability. I want personality, teamwork, tension, emotion, etc. from these characters.

              There is so much you can do with 80+ NEW CHARACTERS and only a terrible story teller would do something like try to get rid of them all in one chapter.

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:45 am

              The manga version has been awful.

              Just look at how the main fighters did:

              Kuririn? lol.
              Tenshinhan? lol.
              Hit? Didn't even eliminate one person and got punked by Jiren. An embarrassment.
              18? Only 1 elimination and not a single team up with her brother or Kuririn.
              Piccolo? Got 2 eliminations, didn't fight the Namekians and only lasted 15 minutes. Trash.
              Cabba? Only 1 elimination and how he got eliminated was bad.

              Not to mention the complete absurdity the last chapter was. 4 universes in a single chapter. :?

              The manga makes the anime look like a masterpiece. The anime actually took it's time and gave 90% of fighters a moment to exist.

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:05 pm

              ZombieVito wrote:The manga version has been awful.

              Just look at how the main fighters did:

              Kuririn? lol.
              Tenshinhan? lol.
              Hit? Didn't even eliminate one person and got punked by Jiren. An embarrassment.
              18? Only 1 elimination and not a single team up with her brother or Kuririn.
              Piccolo? Got 2 eliminations, didn't fight the Namekians and only lasted 15 minutes. Trash.
              Cabba? Only 1 elimination and how he got eliminated was bad.

              Not to mention the complete absurdity the last chapter was. 4 universes in a single chapter. :?

              The manga makes the anime look like a masterpiece. The anime actually took it's time and gave 90% of fighters a moment to exist.
              Well, I don't want it to be the "Universe 7 vastly outperforms everyone" Tournament. In the anime Universe 7 was the only Universe where everyone got at least one elimination, and that's simply because they're the main characters. Hit's elimination was trash, though. Krillin and Tenshinhan deserved to do something. The anime developed some semblance of personality for the new characters, showed off their abilities, and even developed some backstory for some of them. I think the Namekians deserved to beat Piccolo. They're much more interesting than the Saiyans, sacrifice more than Piccolo, and should logically be stronger than him.

              I mean, think of Dr. Rota or Katopesla in the anime vs in the manga. They were basically jokes but I loved them. Even the fodder characters got love in the anime. The manga is jerking of 17 and Kale. Kale and Jiren are the only two characters in the manga that make me think "How is Universe 7 going to beat this guy?"
              Jiren will probably eliminate Kefla and Universe 6 so it won't even matter.

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:24 pm

              R. Daneel Olivaw wrote: Well, I don't want it to be the "Universe 7 vastly outperforms everyone" Tournament. In the anime Universe 7 was the only Universe where everyone got at least one elimination, and that's simply because they're the main characters. Hit's elimination was trash, though. Krillin and Tenshinhan deserved to do something. The anime developed some semblance of personality for the new characters, showed off their abilities, and even developed some backstory for some of them. I think the Namekians deserved to beat Piccolo. They're much more interesting than the Saiyans, sacrifice more than Piccolo, and should logically be stronger than him.

              I mean, think of Dr. Rota or Katopesla in the anime vs in the manga. They were basically jokes but I loved them. Even the fodder characters got love in the anime. The manga is jerking of 17 and Kale. Kale and Jiren are the only two characters in the manga that make me think "How is Universe 7 going to beat this guy?"
              Jiren will probably eliminate Kefla and Universe 6 so it won't even matter.
              While the anime could have made U7 have less shine, you have to take into account that many of these characters haven't had time to shine in a long time. I don't really count RoF because they were beating nameless mooks. In the ToP they got wins against actual characters. Not to mention this is the first time 17 and 18 fight in 2 decades.

              Piccolo is not stronger than the Namekians in the anime and Katopesla was no joke. He almost got 18 and fought very well with SS Vegeta, he really was one of the strongest in the tournament.

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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:40 pm

              ZombieVito wrote:The manga version has been awful.

              Just look at how the main fighters did:

              Kuririn? lol.
              Tenshinhan? lol.
              Hit? Didn't even eliminate one person and got punked by Jiren. An embarrassment.
              18? Only 1 elimination and not a single team up with her brother or Kuririn.
              Piccolo? Got 2 eliminations, didn't fight the Namekians and only lasted 15 minutes. Trash.
              Cabba? Only 1 elimination and how he got eliminated was bad.

              Not to mention the complete absurdity the last chapter was. 4 universes in a single chapter. :?

              The manga makes the anime look like a masterpiece. The anime actually took it's time and gave 90% of fighters a moment to exist.
              If you count eliminations and act like they actually mean something, then you're setting yourself up to look like a fool. Krillin got more eliminations than Toppo and Dyspo combined, but does that mean he performed better? You're not supposed to count individual eliminations when you read, because that detracts from the action.

              Also, the way Cabbe got eliminated was bad? He sacrificed himself to save his universe, which is much more impactful than fighting some balloon girl. Cabbe is the perfect example of a character being meaningful and useful without necessarily having impressive strength.
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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:37 pm

              controversial opinion warning

              As a person who rated anime version of this arc 0/10, calling it pure trash and worst arc in franchise...

              ...I'm actually enjoying manga version. It's better in every possible way. It's not wasting time for some forgettable characters which for no reason could get even whole episode in anime. U6, U7 and top-3 warriors from U11 are the only ones that matter in this saga which was obvious from the very start and manga actually seem to know that, while anime wasted time for fights i would never care about.

              Kale in manga is actually a character, not Broly with lipstick. Even though i still don't like her transformed state, she's not Broly with lipstick.
              She doesn't behave, move and look like Broly at all. No stupid "Son Gokuu!!!!" screaming. Pure rage towards everyone including her allies.
              Fight against Anilaza in anime was a joke, but here Kale trashed him/it in instant.
              Entire scene with potara was also handled a lot better with Cabba sacrificing himself and Kale having no idea what is happening. And all of that to save Kale from death, not to save butt from Goku (because from who else? so lazy).

              Manga is faster, irrelevant universes are getting erased quickly. How could it be worse than anime?
              Ribrianne is gone. There is no stupid giant Ribrianne thing. Even though i like her anime filler Brianne design, design alone can't save everything that happened when she transformed. I prefer how manga handled her, even if her pretty form didn't appear.

              The biggest issue i can have right now is Gohan facing Kefla. It doesn't make any sense for him to be comparable to her so i hope he will lose quickly in next chapter.
              Although i'm very aware manga might have completely different power levels, i still can't see Gohan standing a chance against her when Kale alone trashed Golden Frieza.

              If i were to rank last two DBS arcs in both versions, i'd say
              Manga ToP > Manga Zamasu >>> Anime Zamasu > Anime ToP

              Didn't read previous arcs since their anime versions were acceptable to me. I probably will someday tho.
              Awful quality of Zamasu and especially ToP arcs in anime caused me to read manga and in both cases i was absolutely surprised of the quality gap.
              I just hope manga will spare us that ridiculous SSJB Evolution thing just like it ignored SSJ Rage. Those forms should've never happened in my opinion.
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              Re: What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

              Post by Izanagi » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:22 pm

              Not really a fan of it, but I prefer it to the anime adaptation. All those episodes for characters I couldn't give two fucks about was getting banal, U7 eliminating virtually all of the universes were grating at this point, and too much exposure of Goku ruined the premise of a battle royale to me. It's better this way to me, but I guess different strokes different folks.

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