lord turbo wrote:
I'm curious, when you claim stuff that is bolded what is it exactly based off of besides personal preference? Again, the correct translation is that Goku said the kids will be fine, not that Abo and Cado would be good opponents. They got easily spanked by base kids under Toriyama and Ooishi's collaborated manga version. Also, Tarble asked the Namekians about Freeza and the Earthlings, the same Namekians that sensed Freeza's full power by the way. The rest of your post is just wishful thinking, being comparable to Ginyu Force means they can't grow any stronger than Freeza despite Tagoma (Dodoria tier goon) growing not only stronger than Namek era Freeza, but strong enough to effortlessly embarrass post Cell Games era Piccolo.
Vegeta didn't know Frieza could even transform and he was one of Frieza's top guys. And I doubt Tarble asked the Namekians "Hey what was Frieza's power level" not that they would even have a way to explain it since they don't have numbers to explain it.
And I believe the writers forgot how strong Piccolo was as he was treated as closer to rusty base Gohan than rusty ssj Gohan, and post Buu saga base Goku is supposed to be weaker than Frieza. Also the Tagoma vs Piccolo think is pretty much filler as it didn't come from Toriyama. We really don't even know how much of the abo cado thing came from Toriyama either and the whole special may have been retconned at this point anyways.
The only hypocrite here is you, picking and choosing which lines count and which doesn't and making excuses for them doesn't paint you as unbiased... There are no "multiple sources" stating Freeza > base Goku, just once and one only and that's in reference to Beerus examining a suppressed Goku. You want to know what author intent clearly was? Abo and Cado = Namek era Freeza, the same level that was trivialized by base Goten and Trunks under Toriyama and Ooishi's pen. What is stated is Abo and Cado are on par with Freeza (Namek era), Goku does not state Tarble is wrong after hearing this, just disappointed that they are only as strong as Freeza and that the kids will be fine against them. Those are the facts, no amount of mental gymnastics from you will change that.
No, like I said it was pretty clear when watching at least Tarble was most likely talking about first form Frieza. Their power could really be anywhere between first form and final form Frieza and that statement would be true.
However Beerus flat out said Goku couldn't beat Frieza. And he said it in the movie AND the anime, and in the anime they even said ssj Goku would still have problems pretty much shutting down the people who were trying to say he was suppressed. They maybe even added that line because people were saying Goku was suppressed.
So it's pretty clear from these statements base Goten and Trunks are somewhere in the namek Frieza tier, and BoG base Goku is somewhere below max Frieza.
Have we forgotten some random goon (Tagoma) became far stronger than Namek era Freeza in 4 months to the point he could casually embarrass post Cell Game era Piccolo? Strength gains in Dragon Ball are based entirely off of incoherent plot convenience to suit the needs of the story at any giving moment.
As mentioned above, I don't even think the writer of that episode realized he made Tagoma stronger than namek Frieza. And even if he did it was just some anime writer and not Toriyama. Piccolo even had trouble getting past the fodder Frieza soldiers to try and save Krillin.
No, being a hypocrite would be narrowly focusing on one thing and ignoring everything else that contradicts it. Beerus examined a suppressed Goku so his statement is not contradicted, just not relevant in regards to full power Goku, the fact he claims beating Namek era Freeza is the best his SSJ could do just further elaborates on how ignorant Beerus is considering Goku is at bare minimum over 10x stronger than Namek era Freeza going by statements from the Cell and Buu saga, going further the RoF anime had Tagoma state base Gohan was the strongest out of everyone there (This includes Piccolo), how does Tagoma know this, according to your logic who cares, the narrative states this through author intent so it must be true, keep in mind this version of base Gohan is weaker than early Buu Saga self. Speaking of the Buu Saga Goten and Trunks challenge 18 in their base form despite fully knowing 18 used to be strong enough to thrash their dads SSJ forms before their time of chamber training. They only complain about being at a disadvantage due to the suit they are in and nothing in regards to 18s own strength that greatly surpass Namek era Freeza. That fits perfectly in line with the base kids being strong enough to thrash opponents on par with Namek era Freeza.
The power statement of Beerus comparing Goku to Frieza showed up in the movie, anime, and manga, meaning it is highly likely the line itself came from Toriyama. Buu saga base Goku also had some problems with Yakon, who should be weaker than Frieza as well as Frieza was the undisputed strongest in the mortal universe.
Trunks and Goten were getting beaten badly by 18, who thought they were humans until they went ssj. It's a fare opinion to say their ssj forms are above 18, but it was pretty clear their base forms were below her as even if the costume was hindering them 18 was holding back and dominating them.
